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Community => Politics and Government => Topic started by: booley on December 06, 2013, 02:38:55 pm

Title: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: booley on December 06, 2013, 02:38:55 pm
Yes another run a long line of "We may need to have a violent uprising against people having health care" that seem to be popping up more and more.

But this time from a "mainstream" think tank in a  congressional hearing:

Quote
Testifying before a Congressional hearing Tuesday on the President’s Constitutional powers, Michael Cannon the Cato Institute’s Director of Health Policy Studies, suggests that as a last “resort” the U.S. Government should be “overthrown” because President Barack Obama overstepped his executive powers implementing the Affordable Car Act. And Congressman Trey Gowdy (R-SC) who was questioning Mr. Cannon, agreed.

http://www.examiner.com/article/cato-institute-suggests-an-overthrow-of-u-s-government-is-needed?cid=db_articles

Now besides all the other "stuff" this guys claims, I see two problems with his arguments.

1.
Quote
“That is a very dangerous sort of thing for the president to do, to wantonly ignore the laws,” Cannon concluded, “to try to impose obligation upon people that the legislature did not approve.”

Uhh wasn't the affordable care act passed by the Legislature?  And then later ruled on by the SCOTUS as constitutional?

Wouldn't the fact that the congress passed the bill by definition mean the law was approved by the Legislature?

Am I just confused on that? OR is this guy full of shit?

2.
Quote
Cannon said. “Abraham Lincoln talked about our right to alter our government or our revolutionary right to overthrow it.”

Can anyone find me  the Lincoln quote where allegedly talked about this?  Maybe it's me but it seems Lincoln would have been very biased against the idea of a right to over throw the government.

Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Ironchew on December 06, 2013, 03:00:46 pm
Yeah, Libertarians, you go ahead with that armed rebellion.

Just don't pretend you're any different than the "initiators of force" before you that tore functioning societies apart. The chances of getting a better system of governance out of that bloodbath is very tiny.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Barbarella on December 06, 2013, 04:03:31 pm
I love seeing these types just letting the crazy all hang out! Keep it up, Tealiban Turkeys! It helps us AND it's entertaining!

And I doubt Abraham "Mr. Must-Preserve-The-Union" Lincoln said that. CATO Weirdo is either mis-attributing or pulling that quote from a Bizarro-Lincoln who resides in his bowels!

Also, we have the most overblown & overfunded military on the planet! The rebellion would be over in two seconds!
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Old Viking on December 06, 2013, 04:15:39 pm
Masturbating in public.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: ironbite on December 06, 2013, 04:19:34 pm
What these morons who pretend to be Republicans fail to realize is that the army, the most overfunded, overbloated mass is not loyal to them.  They're loyal to the President.  If they attempt to instigate a rebellion, the army will put it down and put it down hard.

Ironbite-and then we'll have a military dictatorship.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Dakota Bob on December 06, 2013, 04:31:26 pm
Quote
"We may need to have a violent uprising against people having health care"

Dead people don't need health care, after all.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Meshakhad on December 06, 2013, 05:51:03 pm
Affordable Car Act

Uhh...
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Lt. Fred on December 06, 2013, 06:07:52 pm
Their position is essentially that you have a right to gun down a government that does things you don't like. My question is: are we allowed to gun down the CATO institute, for encouraging (and actually successfully achieving) government activity that I do not like?
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Beezlebub on December 06, 2013, 06:59:17 pm
The problem with these "revolutions" is the fact that they seem to think they can just seize the government and then everything will be all wine and roses. I doubt many of them can even figure out how to work a power grid.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: RavynousHunter on December 06, 2013, 07:17:57 pm
The problem with these "revolutions" is the fact that they seem to think they can just seize the government and then everything will be all wine and roses. I doubt many of them can even figure out how to work a power grid.

They probably can't even figure out how to work a bloody toilet.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Sigmaleph on December 06, 2013, 08:40:37 pm
Does this guy come from a parallel universe where Obama declared the ACA to be law by executive decree? Because otherwise I have no idea why he thinks Obama exceeded his powers or ignored the legislature.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: ironbite on December 06, 2013, 08:49:42 pm
They honestly do believe he's done this by degree rather then properly.  And he's got a lot of people convinced of that.

Ironbite-reality is subjective for these guys.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Lt. Fred on December 06, 2013, 08:56:26 pm
Does this guy come from a parallel universe where Obama declared the ACA to be law by executive decree? Because otherwise I have no idea why he thinks Obama exceeded his powers or ignored the legislature.

Laws are only legitimate if Republicans vote for them.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Askold on December 07, 2013, 12:35:12 am
The problem with these "revolutions" is the fact that they seem to think they can just seize the government and then everything will be all wine and roses. I doubt many of them can even figure out how to work a power grid.
Kinda like when the hard line communists took over Soviet union in 1991 briefly which ended up being the last nail on its coffin rather than returning it to the good old days of proper communism as the leaders of the coup assumed.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Vypernight on December 07, 2013, 05:00:22 am
Christ, first the Tea Party, now the Libertairians.  Every time we get a somewhat-sensible alternative to the right and left, some rgith-wing assholes take it over and twist it into some fucked-up group that it's previous supporters still rabbidly support for no goddamn reason! 

If an Independent Party was formed, how long do you think before they mysteriously began spouting pro-fundie, anti-gay, anti-governement (only when the left is in charge) bullshit?
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Rime on December 07, 2013, 08:11:23 am
Affordable Car Act

Uhh...
I thought the same thing.  I'm pretty sure Booley copypasted it, so it's even more hilarious.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Ironchew on December 07, 2013, 02:21:14 pm
Christ, first the Tea Party, now the Libertairians.  Every time we get a somewhat-sensible alternative to the right and left, some rgith-wing assholes take it over and twist it into some fucked-up group that it's previous supporters still rabbidly support for no goddamn reason! 

If an Independent Party was formed, how long do you think before they mysteriously began spouting pro-fundie, anti-gay, anti-governement (only when the left is in charge) bullshit?

Pretty sure the Libertarian party has been this way ever since at least the late 70s when Roe v. Wade was ruled on. It's the catch-all party for Republican voters that adore neoclassical economic policy while having at least a little brand awareness and not wanting to be associated with religious fundamentalism.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Vypernight on December 07, 2013, 04:17:11 pm
I heard a number of Libertarians that sounded pretty sensible.  Maybe they were the exception rather than the rule.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: kefkaownsall on December 07, 2013, 04:45:28 pm
Although many libertards are pro life
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Vypernight on December 07, 2013, 04:49:58 pm
I thought they were pro-choice, pro-gay rights, and anti-religion.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Ironchew on December 07, 2013, 05:08:33 pm
I thought they were pro-choice, pro-gay rights, and anti-religion.

The Libertarian party holds more stock in economic values than social values. They may not agree with the Republican party platform on the aforementioned issues, but they hate progressives more.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: RavynousHunter on December 07, 2013, 05:48:53 pm
A lot of glibertarians are as regressive, if not moreso, than your average neo-con.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Lt. Fred on December 07, 2013, 07:30:06 pm
To the degree that libertarianism is useful, it's just trivial liberalism. Everything else in the philosophy is silly and wrong.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: kefkaownsall on December 08, 2013, 09:59:35 am
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/10/30/2853181/libertarians-progressives-liberaltarian/
Actually a majority of self described libertards oppose gay marriage
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: mythbuster43 on December 08, 2013, 06:29:36 pm
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/10/30/2853181/libertarians-progressives-liberaltarian/
Actually a majority of self described libertards oppose gay marriage

Strange, as the Libertarian Party was supporting gay marriage (albeit framed as "government should not interfere with personal things like marriage" rather than "it's their human right to get married") for decades. They used to be very pro gay until recent years when the libertarian movement was hijacked by the furtherest fringe of the Right to become one big rich white male whining fest. It makes me feel sorry for Ed Brayton, who became a libertarian when it was a respectable and sane movement and has it to watch it decay really badly over the last few years.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: kefkaownsall on December 08, 2013, 09:50:20 pm
Point is the left should give up on appeasing them
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: The Illusive Man on December 08, 2013, 10:13:10 pm
To the degree that libertarianism is useful, it's just trivial liberalism. Everything else in the philosophy is silly and wrong.
To the point where Ann Rand and the Coultergeist are synonymous with libertarianism.


Yes another run a long line of "We may need to have a violent uprising against people having health care" that seem to be popping up more and more.
Trolling has taught me that this situation and the appropriate response is:

(https://images.encyclopediadramatica.es/1/16/DIF-Duck.jpg)

They will not do anything other than spout wargarble because that would put their source of funding, the GOP, in harm’s way. Call their bluff and laugh as they backpedal.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Witchyjoshy on December 08, 2013, 10:39:37 pm
I just realized that's a picture of Donald Duck to a gun with his head about to gleefully attempt suicide.

What the hell Disney.  I'd be surprised but they had a comic dedicated to Mickey Mouse humorously attempting to commit suicide repeatedly after he thought Minnie was cheating on him.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: The Illusive Man on December 08, 2013, 10:50:53 pm
I just realized that's a picture of Donald Duck to a gun with his head about to gleefully attempt suicide.

What the hell Disney.  I'd be surprised but they had a comic dedicated to Mickey Mouse humorously attempting to commit suicide repeatedly after he thought Minnie was cheating on him.

Decades ago things were very different. Here is a short list:
Mickey Mouse assaulting transvestites:
(https://arnoldzwicky.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/mickeymousekatnipp.jpg)
(click to show/hide)


Let’s not forget Donald going all Nazi! This is a troll favorite.
(http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tatar/files/2010/09/773554628_52206f3f2a.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLV5GCbsRTY
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Barbarella on December 09, 2013, 03:16:39 am
I just realized that's a picture of Donald Duck to a gun with his head about to gleefully attempt suicide.

What the hell Disney.  I'd be surprised but they had a comic dedicated to Mickey Mouse humorously attempting to commit suicide repeatedly after he thought Minnie was cheating on him.

Decades ago things were very different. Here is a short list:
Mickey Mouse assaulting transvestites:
(https://arnoldzwicky.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/mickeymousekatnipp.jpg)
(click to show/hide)


Let’s not forget Donald going all Nazi! This is a troll favorite.
(http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tatar/files/2010/09/773554628_52206f3f2a.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLV5GCbsRTY

Well, to Donald's credit, it was a dream sequence in an anti-Nazi cartoon and his character was basically some poor soul in Nazi Germany who had to kiss up or else!

The Mickey Mouse one, however..... :P >:(
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: RavynousHunter on December 09, 2013, 11:18:16 am
A tonne of cartoons during WWII were used for propaganda, as well as many comics.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Beezlebub on December 09, 2013, 12:37:36 pm
(http://img2.moonbuggy.org/imgstore/superman-says-you-can-slap-a-jap.jpg)
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: dpareja on December 09, 2013, 04:07:38 pm
(http://img2.moonbuggy.org/imgstore/superman-says-you-can-slap-a-jap.jpg)

Hm, not showing up?

(Well, it is for me now, but I think that's because I manually went to the URL in question.)
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: booley on December 11, 2013, 05:16:04 pm
Let’s not forget Donald going all Nazi! This is a troll favorite.
(http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tatar/files/2010/09/773554628_52206f3f2a.jpg)
...

Well that went Godwin in a weird way
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: JohnE on December 11, 2013, 05:43:41 pm
People get all bent out of shape about that cartoon as if Disney was promoting Naziism, when the whole moral of the short was "Nazis suck."
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Witchyjoshy on December 11, 2013, 06:48:26 pm
Depicting Naziism through Nazi Swatiskas tends to be offensive to people, even if it's depicting them in an evil way.  (Personally I only take offense when it's depicted as something the protagonist of a story is suppose to wear, like the "Daughters of War" mod on the Skyrim Nexus)

It's like we're supposed to pretend that Nazis never existed.

Then again, look at how many parents get bent out of shape when the villain of a story doesn't conform to Christian standards.

And they say liberals are easy to offend.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Cerim Treascair on December 11, 2013, 11:18:48 pm
It's like we're supposed to pretend that Nazis never existed.

Arguably, that's EXACTLY what they do in Germany...
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: RavynousHunter on December 12, 2013, 09:18:25 am
It's like we're supposed to pretend that Nazis never existed.

Arguably, that's EXACTLY what they do in Germany...

An understandable, if not exactly rational, reaction to such a great source of national shame.
Title: Re: Cato Institute:Over throw of government may be needed
Post by: Ironchew on December 12, 2013, 12:10:24 pm
It's like we're supposed to pretend that Nazis never existed.

Arguably, that's EXACTLY what they do in Germany...

An understandable, if not exactly rational, reaction to such a great source of national shame.

Kinda like how the United States likes to pretend the wars of Indian extermination and Japanese internment in WWII never happened.

Oh yeah, whoever Godwinned this thread (EDIT: TIM's thread-derailing skill is envious) and has us talking about National socialists instead of Libertarians -- that was an asshole move a masterful diversion.