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Author Topic: No God required  (Read 3814 times)

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Offline Rime

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Re: No God required
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2012, 10:27:19 am »
Intelligent Design isn't quite like that.  Intelligent design is pretty much

"The eyeball is pretty complex."
"IT'S IRREDUCIBLY COMPLEX!!!  SOME SORT OF DIVINE INTERVENTION!  IT'S INTELLIGENTLY DESIGNED!"
"What?"
"Well we can talk about it, but until then it's the product of a divine creator.  Who sent His only begotten Son to Earth so we can have a mansion in Heav... err... lets us live forever in peace with Him!"

"DNA is quite complex."
"IT'S IRREDUCIBLY COMPLEX!!!  SOME SORT OF DIVINE INTERVENTION!  IT'S INTELLIGENTLY DESIGNED!"...


This is why it's under fire.  Intelligent design is taking things which seem pretty complex and using that to throw claim that some supernatural interference was involved until it's cleared up (which you know will be resisted long after it's been proven.)  The scenario you're posing is a bit different.  And more reasonable.

(EDIT:  Added the "it's irreducibly complex")
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 08:15:32 am by Rime »
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And when we're done soul searching,
And we carry the weight and die for a cause.
Is misery made beautiful
Right before our eyes.

Mercy be revealed, or blind us where we stand?

Offline Star Cluster

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Re: No God required
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2012, 11:52:27 am »
I have to agree with Rime here.  Most ID advocates insist that a supernatural entity designed and created everything within a relatively short period of time.  I seriously doubt that few IDers, if any at all, would accept that such a being set this thing in motion billions of years ago, and just "improved" upon it for all this time.

While the possibility of a deity (or deities) of some sort can never be conclusively ruled out, and if any such do exist, that it (they) did not do exactly that, you'd have resistance to the idea.  To accept such a concept would be too close to the hated evil and subversive big bang and evolution theories.  If you take out the need for the instantaneous creation of everything, you may as well take out the need for the creator.  No, creation "theory" has to be kept to a minimal amount of time in order for it to be palatable to the masses.  The complexity of things such as Rime mentioned only adds to their absolute rejection of any other explanation regardless of the amount of evidence showing it to be the most reasonable explanation.
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The heavens convince me there is no god.

Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.--Steven Weinberg

Religion can never reform mankind because religion is slavery--Robert G. Ingersoll

I don't know why people compare George Carlin to God. He's great and all, but he's no George Carlin.-Anon.

Offline SpaceProg

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Re: No God required
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2012, 12:09:55 pm »
So... what the heck universe creation theory do I believe in, if it's not ID or instantaneous creation of everything?  What would it be called? 

My belief:  Something set off the Big Bang.  I I know it as "God".  It is intelligent.  Time can move in different ways for different things, so mayhap millions and millions of years is like nothing to this Entity.  I perceive too much order and patterns for there to be complete chaotic formation by chance, but I also think that the 6000 year old Earth, and instantaneous Everything to be a heck of a stretch.  I believe the universe was directed and formed to order over the aeons and creatures, worlds, and space in general developed  based upon gradual experimentation of 'God'.

Well... to put it simply.  The universe is some mega-entity's ant farm.
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: No God required
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2012, 07:21:41 pm »
Does your specific belief really need a label, though?
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Offline SpaceProg

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Re: No God required
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2012, 07:42:25 pm »
Well... no... I guess not.
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Offline Rime

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Re: No God required
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2012, 07:00:38 am »
I believe that what you're describing is Deism.  Some force created the universe, but is letting it unfold within the laws of science.  If it is manipulating the universe, it's on a very subtle level.
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And when we're done soul searching,
And we carry the weight and die for a cause.
Is misery made beautiful
Right before our eyes.

Mercy be revealed, or blind us where we stand?

Offline SpaceProg

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Re: No God required
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2012, 11:11:29 am »
Could be, yeah... but I also believe that God isn't impersonal.  Deism does seem to fit most of my views, anyway.  Oh, and I also try to follow Jesus (Whether he was human or divinity doesn't really matter to me).

That's what happens when you're not raised up on a particular religion but still believe in God.  LOL. :)
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