Cartoon Network UK Censors Steven Universe

[Svata]

They're Ultie's THE JEWS.

They're an omnipotent cabal who have evidently existed forever, who are both all powerful and malicious as well as slow witted and stupid so that GamerGate can struggle and fight against them without it seeming like they're futilely fighting something they have no chance against.

They're powerful when he needs to feel persecuted, and they're weak when he needs to go on the attack.

And there is not a wit of awareness in him of the contradictory nature of his great boogeyman.

He's fundamentally the same kind of goon you always see on Stormfront. Whining that some powerful group is "keeping US down!"

Accusing me of anti-Semitism.  Lovely.  Why don't you photoshop a swastika on my avatar, while you're at it?

Noooo, they're saying this is your equivalent of THE JOOS! Not that you think anything about them in actuality. They're saying your mndset on this is the same as a stormfronters on jews.

But anyway, the reason for this apparent paradox is simple: people are still afraid to challenge them.  Criticize them?  They'll label you stuff like "racist" and "sexist."  Hardly anybody wants to be called that, so they fold (or compromise, if they're lucky and/or skilled).  The fact that they have friends in high places certainly doesn't help.

But if you stand up to them, refuse to budge, then they have nothing.  They can double down, but that will only cost them the PR battle.  And it's already happening.  As they become more and more radicalized, they lose more and more goodwill.  The term "social justice warrior" is becoming increasingly mainstream.  More and more famous people are speaking out against them.  They are losing the momentum.  Once it grinds to a halt, there will be backlash.  And despite how entrenched they are, they will be steamrolled.  The tide is turning, and they will be swept away in the surf.

Okaaay. Little overboard there dude.

[Ultimate Paragon]

They're Ultie's THE JEWS.

They're an omnipotent cabal who have evidently existed forever, who are both all powerful and malicious as well as slow witted and stupid so that GamerGate can struggle and fight against them without it seeming like they're futilely fighting something they have no chance against.

They're powerful when he needs to feel persecuted, and they're weak when he needs to go on the attack.

And there is not a wit of awareness in him of the contradictory nature of his great boogeyman.

He's fundamentally the same kind of goon you always see on Stormfront. Whining that some powerful group is "keeping US down!"

Accusing me of anti-Semitism.  Lovely.  Why don't you photoshop a swastika on my avatar, while you're at it?

Noooo, they're saying this is your equivalent of THE JOOS! Not that you think anything about them in actuality. They're saying your mndset on this is the same as a stormfronters on jews.

Yeah, you're right.  Sorry.  It's just that anti-Semitism is one of the many, many things GamerGate has been unfairly accused of.

But anyway, the reason for this apparent paradox is simple: people are still afraid to challenge them.  Criticize them?  They'll label you stuff like "racist" and "sexist."  Hardly anybody wants to be called that, so they fold (or compromise, if they're lucky and/or skilled).  The fact that they have friends in high places certainly doesn't help.

But if you stand up to them, refuse to budge, then they have nothing.  They can double down, but that will only cost them the PR battle.  And it's already happening.  As they become more and more radicalized, they lose more and more goodwill.  The term "social justice warrior" is becoming increasingly mainstream.  More and more famous people are speaking out against them.  They are losing the momentum.  Once it grinds to a halt, there will be backlash.  And despite how entrenched they are, they will be steamrolled.  The tide is turning, and they will be swept away in the surf.

Okaaay. Little overboard there dude.

Sorry, I was feeling melodramatic.

[niam2023]

They're Ultie's THE JEWS.

They're an omnipotent cabal who have evidently existed forever, who are both all powerful and malicious as well as slow witted and stupid so that GamerGate can struggle and fight against them without it seeming like they're futilely fighting something they have no chance against.

They're powerful when he needs to feel persecuted, and they're weak when he needs to go on the attack.

And there is not a wit of awareness in him of the contradictory nature of his great boogeyman.

He's fundamentally the same kind of goon you always see on Stormfront. Whining that some powerful group is "keeping US down!"

Accusing me of anti-Semitism.  Lovely.  Why don't you photoshop a swastika on my avatar, while you're at it?

But anyway, the reason for this apparent paradox is simple: people are still afraid to challenge them.  Criticize them?  They'll label you stuff like "racist" and "sexist."  Hardly anybody wants to be called that, so they fold (or compromise, if they're lucky and/or skilled).  The fact that they have friends in high places certainly doesn't help.

But if you stand up to them, refuse to budge, then they have nothing.  They can double down, but that will only cost them the PR battle.  And it's already happening.  As they become more and more radicalized, they lose more and more goodwill.  The term "social justice warrior" is becoming increasingly mainstream.  More and more famous people are speaking out against them.  They are losing the momentum.  Once it grinds to a halt, there will be backlash.  And despite how entrenched they are, they will be steamrolled.  The tide is turning, and they will be swept away in the surf.

They're your equivalent of The Jews.

Now let me do some magic.

But anyway, the reason for this apparent paradox is simple: people are still afraid to challenge the Jews.  Criticize them?  They'll label you stuff like "racist" and "anti-semite."  Hardly anybody wants to be called that, so they fold (or compromise, if they're lucky and/or skilled).  The fact that they have friends in high places certainly doesn't help.

But if you stand up to the Jews, refuse to budge, then they have nothing.  They can double down, but that will only cost them the PR battle.  And it's already happening.  As they become more and more radicalized, they lose more and more credibility.  The term "Holohoax" is becoming more and more mainstream.  More and more famous people are speaking out against them.  They are losing the momentum.  Once it grinds to a halt, there will be backlash.  And despite how entrenched they are, they will be steamrolled.  The tide is turning, and they will be swept away in the surf.

Heil Victory.

If you replace all instances of your boogeyman group with The Jews and it comes out sounding believably like something from Stormfront, you have problems.

[Ultimate Paragon]

Dear god, I have never seen someone so full of righteous anger over the removal of an ass slap.

It's the principle of the matter.  The less ground we lose, the less we have to regain.

On the other hand, is this really ground you need to regain?

Eventually, yes.  Because nothing is ever enough for these people.  Give them an inch, they take a mile.  That's how it always is.

And so in response to this, you demand ass slaps and transphobic jokes in gaming?

1. I think a better question is this: why were people so outraged over an ass slap?  Fact is, they got the ball rolling.

2. You can call the joke "transphobic" all you want, but taking it at face value, it's really more a potshot at chauvinistic dudebros.  Besides, once you declare a group (no matter who it is) "off-limits" for humor, you engage in stifling of free speech.

Why is a demeaning stereotype okay when it's women, but not okay when it's black men? Granted, I realize one scenario is about getting that tingly feeling in your pants, and the other is blatantly wrong enough that obviously you, and even a lot of very stupid people get it.

Well, it's partly because one carries a lot more historical baggage.

Moreover, the line between "male sexual fantasy" and "female power fantasy" is rather blurry, especially when it comes to video games.  Characters like Lara Croft or Bayonetta are wish fulfilment, much like with Ryu or Johnny Cage.  With power fantasies, the emphasis is on "fantasy" rather than "power."  Being attractive is a major element of the power fantasy.  Who doesn't want to be considered beautiful?  Fact is, men may want these sexualized badass ladies, but women want to be them.  Not all men or women fit this mold, of course, but enough do.  It works the other way, too: "male power fantasies" are usually attractive to women, for the same reasons.  Men may fantasize about Ivy, but women fantasize about Dante.  And neither of these is wrong.

I don't care about your "many women love those (tit jiggle) games, too" argument, mostly because it makes me think you don't know very many actual women IRL, or you don't bother asking them about these matters. I care even less about "all the women" who allegedly support tit & crotch games online, according to you and your source links.

Why not?  Seriously, why not?

Ultie, sweetheart, Metal Gear Solid is one game series. Its existence doesn't mean Japan somehow degrades men and women equally.

[mellenORL]

Okay, apples and oranges, I know, but do you think the treatment of women throughout history has Less baggage? Really? My grandmother was legally barred from the right to vote for the first third of her adult life. As civilization progresses through time, things like using cartoons of little black pickaninnies to advertise a brand of cornmeal become unacceptable. In a world where girls and women still suffer from ancient indignities like child marriage, female circumcision and being stoned to death for alleged adultery, I feel that we in the developed world ought to be beyond using over sexualized imagery of women in every advertising and entertainment medium ad nauseum. There's enough free porn online alone to drown the planet in jizz, so it's not like your pet demographic is going to starve for eye candy.

[niam2023]

He's gone full fanatic.

If there is any change or any indication of something that could be construed as censorship, he's immediately ranting.

It really is a fascinating examination of radicalization as a process.

[Even Then]

...I'm sorry, what? What are you even trying to say? Do you legitimately believe that Metal Gear Solid is several game series at once? Do you believe that the existence of a handful of games with male fanservice somehow has equal weight to hundreds of other games with tacked-on female fanservice for the thirsty het boy's delight? Especially the loli-bait? WHAT ARE YOU EVEN TRYING TO SAY?

Also, people going "hey could we maybe not have jokes in our games where the punchline is 'man in dress is disgusting', that's fucked up" doesn't constitute stifling free speech. It is an expression of free speech. Not that you'd know the meaning of the word if it came up to you and castrated you. And if you think Lara Croft's legendary balloon tits had female empowerment anywhere near them, I have a bridge in Uleåborg to sell you.

[Ironchew]

He's gone full fanatic.

No, this is how he's always been.

If there is any change or any indication of something that could be construed as censorship, he's immediately ranting.

The outrage of the week is fed to him from higher up in his movement's hierarchy. It's the same place he gets his response flowcharts and the "citations" he never reads.

It really is a fascinating examination of radicalization as a process.

Again, this is how he's always been. We're dealing with a guy who thinks "cultural Marxists" are destroying Western society with their feminism and their PC censorship.

It's an anti-Semitic extreme-right crank conspiracy and UP is firmly latched onto it.

[Cloud3514]

Oh god, it broke quarantine! Run before it infects us all!

[Ultimate Paragon]

They're Ultie's THE JEWS.

They're an omnipotent cabal who have evidently existed forever, who are both all powerful and malicious as well as slow witted and stupid so that GamerGate can struggle and fight against them without it seeming like they're futilely fighting something they have no chance against.

They're powerful when he needs to feel persecuted, and they're weak when he needs to go on the attack.

And there is not a wit of awareness in him of the contradictory nature of his great boogeyman.

He's fundamentally the same kind of goon you always see on Stormfront. Whining that some powerful group is "keeping US down!"

Accusing me of anti-Semitism.  Lovely.  Why don't you photoshop a swastika on my avatar, while you're at it?

But anyway, the reason for this apparent paradox is simple: people are still afraid to challenge them.  Criticize them?  They'll label you stuff like "racist" and "sexist."  Hardly anybody wants to be called that, so they fold (or compromise, if they're lucky and/or skilled).  The fact that they have friends in high places certainly doesn't help.

But if you stand up to them, refuse to budge, then they have nothing.  They can double down, but that will only cost them the PR battle.  And it's already happening.  As they become more and more radicalized, they lose more and more goodwill.  The term "social justice warrior" is becoming increasingly mainstream.  More and more famous people are speaking out against them.  They are losing the momentum.  Once it grinds to a halt, there will be backlash.  And despite how entrenched they are, they will be steamrolled.  The tide is turning, and they will be swept away in the surf.

They're your equivalent of The Jews.

Now let me do some magic.

But anyway, the reason for this apparent paradox is simple: people are still afraid to challenge the Jews.  Criticize them?  They'll label you stuff like "racist" and "anti-semite."  Hardly anybody wants to be called that, so they fold (or compromise, if they're lucky and/or skilled).  The fact that they have friends in high places certainly doesn't help.

But if you stand up to the Jews, refuse to budge, then they have nothing.  They can double down, but that will only cost them the PR battle.  And it's already happening.  As they become more and more radicalized, they lose more and more credibility.  The term "Holohoax" is becoming more and more mainstream.  More and more famous people are speaking out against them.  They are losing the momentum.  Once it grinds to a halt, there will be backlash.  And despite how entrenched they are, they will be steamrolled.  The tide is turning, and they will be swept away in the surf.

Heil Victory.

If you replace all instances of your boogeyman group with The Jews and it comes out sounding believably like something from Stormfront, you have problems.

Okay, apples and oranges, I know, but do you think the treatment of women throughout history has Less baggage? Really? My grandmother was legally barred from the right to vote for the first third of her adult life.

Which was based on idiotic stereotypes of women being too emotional, or less intelligent, or that they wanted all the privileges with none of the responsibilities.  It had nothing to do with sex.

As civilization progresses through time, things like using cartoons of little black pickaninnies to advertise a brand of cornmeal become unacceptable.

Do you think sexualizing women is inherently demeaning?

In a world where girls and women still suffer from ancient indignities like child marriage, female circumcision and being stoned to death for alleged adultery, I feel that we in the developed world ought to be beyond using over sexualized imagery of women in every advertising and entertainment medium ad nauseum.

Because those are completely comparable.  I'm sorry, but bringing up that during discussions about fictitious women wearing skimpy outfits makes you look like you have no sense of proportion.  That's like bringing up North Korea in a discussion about prison reform.  It's certainly a discussion worth having, but talking about horrific atrocities in countries with cultures far removed from your own doesn't help your argument.

There's enough free porn online alone to drown the planet in jizz, so it's not like your pet demographic is going to starve for eye candy.

That's a strawman.  The reason I'm against this is because I'm against censorship in general.  And I'm against the hypocrisy of labelling one thing "censorship" and another "localization."  Because people have done just that:



This is exactly why advocating for and defending censorship is foolish and short-sighted: it hurts everybody.  The ones who rally for censorship fail to understand that it can very easily be used against them.  Those who defend the blade of censorship will eventually be slashed by it themselves.

[mellenORL]

I'm on Windows 10 and Edge, which does not respond to clicks on the function buttons on the compose post control panels)

"Okay, apples and oranges, I know, but do you think the treatment of women throughout history has Less baggage? Really? My grandmother was legally barred from the right to vote for the first third of her adult life."



{Which was based on idiotic stereotypes of women being too emotional, or less intelligent, or that they wanted all the privileges with none of the responsibilities.  It had nothing to do with sex.}

Can you not maintain more than one concept at a time in your mind when reading or writing? The topic was "baggage", i.e., historical wrongs. But to diverge slightly, so as to enlarge your worldview a bit - the basis of that bigotry had everything to do with sex. Social constructs of masculinity have traditionally included equating the sex act as a type of dominance entitlement confirmation, i.e., "since males insert positive penis into negative vagina, and are stronger, and females are fragile while pregnant, males clearly are inherently meant to be dominant and are superior". It's an old and unsophisticated mindset, of course, but there you go. The flipside to such an attitude is that the dominated, whether females (or other races, etc.), are inherently "inferior", and any complaint or protest made by the dominated is taboo or blasphemous, etc., depending on the time and culture.

[Murdin]

They're Ultie's THE JEWS.

They're an omnipotent cabal who have evidently existed forever, who are both all powerful and malicious as well as slow witted and stupid so that GamerGate can struggle and fight against them without it seeming like they're futilely fighting something they have no chance against.

They're powerful when he needs to feel persecuted, and they're weak when he needs to go on the attack.

And there is not a wit of awareness in him of the contradictory nature of his great boogeyman.

He's fundamentally the same kind of goon you always see on Stormfront. Whining that some powerful group is "keeping US down!"

Accusing me of anti-Semitism.  Lovely.  Why don't you photoshop a swastika on my avatar, while you're at it?

Noooo, they're saying this is your equivalent of THE JOOS! Not that you think anything about them in actuality. They're saying your mndset on this is the same as a stormfronters on jews.

I'm quite sure he's smart enough to know what he meant. And ironically, it looks like niam took the bait and pushed his argument more than he needed, or shoud have.

Some people never let good faith get in the way of an opportunity to deal a rhetorical blow to your opponent. Preferably with an edgy image macro for added dudebro effect.

[mellenORL]

Murdin, it was UP who mistook niam's meaning as bait and bit hard. The shaded blocks that contain quotes are actually topped by the post author's name, which can make things a little confusing (I think it's a poor graphic design, frankly).

[TheL]

Here is my one and only comment on this entire fucking censorship thing:  It is impossible to censor yourself.  Censorship is by definition imposed people other than the content creators.

"I don't feel like kids should know that lesbians exist, so I'm going to clip out every vaguely homoerotic subtext in this already-made-by-someone-else-at-our-US-branch cartoon" = censorship because Rebecca Sugar et al. had nothing to do with it.

"Upon further reflection, I feel like the form of sexualization of this particular female character is objectifying and over-the-top, so I'm going to tone it down a bit before releasing the actual game to the public" = NOT CENSORSHIP.  People are allowed to change the design of their own characters.

[Ultimate Paragon]

Here is my one and only comment on this entire fucking censorship thing:  It is impossible to censor yourself.  Censorship is by definition imposed people other than the content creators.

"I don't feel like kids should know that lesbians exist, so I'm going to clip out every vaguely homoerotic subtext in this already-made-by-someone-else-at-our-US-branch cartoon" = censorship because Rebecca Sugar et al. had nothing to do with it.

"Upon further reflection, I feel like the form of sexualization of this particular female character is objectifying and over-the-top, so I'm going to tone it down a bit before releasing the actual game to the public" = NOT CENSORSHIP.  People are allowed to change the design of their own characters.

Actually, self-censorship does exist.

And AFAIK, Mika's butt slap getting removed was done by the suits, not the devs.