Author Topic: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington  (Read 387374 times)

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Offline Cloud3514

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1530 on: August 17, 2017, 05:12:26 pm »
Well, regardless of why small states are given more power, the point stands.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1531 on: August 17, 2017, 05:30:17 pm »
If you thought Trump was a better option for President of the United States than Hilary Clinton, you are an idiot, and/or evil.

Thank you for proving my point.
Oh FFS why is it so bloody important to protect the fee fees of people who voted for someone knowing them to be a racist, rapey, sexist, unstable, chronically stupid douchebag?

Stop it Lana, it's political correctness gone mad!

Haven't you ever considered why so many people voted for Trump? Have you wondered why rural America won Trump the election?

People like to talk about "red states" and "blue states", but looking at the county level gives a more complete picture.



Trump overwhelmingly won rural communities. This is because they're in awful straits, and the country doesn't seem to care about them. To a lot of these people, a vote for Trump was a means to be heard. Everyone lashes out when they don't have a voice. And you want to continue dumping on these people? When you find yourself in a hole, maybe you should stop digging.
You mean:

America's rural areas are gerrymandered favoring conservatives.
Rural people vote for people who'll withold government welfare from city slickers, particularly if they have funny names and skin tones or worship places not found in one pub towns.

Yeah. Righto.

I don't give a flying fuck if you have a cornfield in your backyard, if you vote for a con man, sex offender, bigot and headcase whose not shy about any of that then you're morally culpable!

Offline niam2023

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1532 on: August 17, 2017, 11:03:32 pm »
If you thought Trump was a better option for President of the United States than Hilary Clinton, you are an idiot, and/or evil.

Thank you for proving my point.
Oh FFS why is it so bloody important to protect the fee fees of people who voted for someone knowing them to be a racist, rapey, sexist, unstable, chronically stupid douchebag?

Stop it Lana, it's political correctness gone mad!

Haven't you ever considered why so many people voted for Trump? Have you wondered why rural America won Trump the election?

People like to talk about "red states" and "blue states", but looking at the county level gives a more complete picture.



Trump overwhelmingly won rural communities. This is because they're in awful straits, and the country doesn't seem to care about them. To a lot of these people, a vote for Trump was a means to be heard. Everyone lashes out when they don't have a voice. And you want to continue dumping on these people? When you find yourself in a hole, maybe you should stop digging.

Awful straits they completely and totally deserve for being so stupid, so abysmally and horrifically dull as to continue voting for people who promise only to make their lives worse and "promote Christian moral values"; translation: put bizarre and archaic religious laws to the book that are manifestly unconstitutional and serve only to waste time and let Republican Congressmen continue to drink and party - why care about people who are slaying themselves so efficiently? For all that they squawk about white genocide, it seems they're doing the job admirably well with no outside assistance or phantasmal deep state needed.

They bring these things on THEMSELVES, and then go on and on about self reliance without a care for the sheer irony in this statement.

The rural voter is so pathetically stupid and uninformed they do not recognize coal is a dying industry, and immediately believe any and all fear-mongering about renewable energy.

These are people so poorly educated they vote for less and less sexual education and then wonder why so many of their youth turn to drugs, to trailer homes, and to younger and younger families.

Dpareja says these people were hungry for populism, and if they were so incapable as to leap for the first leader promising to make their miserable existences better, then that is all the more a stirring indictment of populist politics as a whole and populist politics in America in particular. Demagoguery will NEVER lead anywhere but the dustbin.

They could very well inform themselves about their vote, but instead they chose Trump, they chose a headcase, a demented and perverted imbecile who managed to bankrupt a casino. They CHOSE. And they chose poorly - and thus are morally culpable when they continue to support him and run to support any Republican in office simply because he has an R in between parentheses at the end of his name. They cannot discern cause and effect!

I'll just drop a trope here; It Is Beyond Saving. That is my opinion on these people - ever like the painted gold idol in a grand temple; demanding so much respect from gobsmacked visitors yet capable of nothing truly of note.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1533 on: August 18, 2017, 02:25:10 am »
http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/donald-trump-on-charlottesville-1.4250236

Quote
Hypocrisy oozes from [Trump] like pus from a septic infection.

And you're right, niam. Demagoguery will never lead anywhere but the dustbin. But not all populists are demagogues.
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Offline Id82

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1534 on: August 18, 2017, 02:28:01 am »
Republicans have become the masters of the sound bite. If Democrats want to win more with rural voters they really need to dumb down their messages. Sure Hillary Clinton could go to west Virginia and explain that she's going to create more jobs by investing in renewable energy blah blah blah. But they don't want to hear that stuff. That sounds too elitist. The way Donald Trump speaks is perfect for the sound bite. He talks in really dumbed down sentences with the skill level of a 5th grader. But with enough confidence to make himself not sound stupid, and he throws in simplified messages that don't mean anything like make America great again. Or were going to bring your jobs back. Never mind the fact that trump doesn't give a shit about them.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1535 on: August 18, 2017, 02:41:07 am »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rC3FjRZzEM

Please explain how Bernie gets a room full of Trump voters cheering him.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline niam2023

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1536 on: August 18, 2017, 02:56:52 am »
Because as you yourself said, it doesn't matter to these goldfish which populist it is they're cheering on so long as they feel someone is pandering to them in some way. They are just so utterly desperate to have someone to give them a solution that doesn't require them to change who and what they truly are.

For all that they cry about not liking government handouts being given, that is what would be required and what they are asking for to preserve their outdated, ramshackle state of existence, of a 1950s they or their parents remember, but which did not exist for people they don't know or see in their plain little moldy whitebread world.

Anyone with eyes to see it can see these fools for what they truly are - an albatross rather than an award bringing show-bird.

It would be funny if it wasn't so...well, I'll let the testament to rural stupidity Mr. Trump fill in that last word.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 02:59:05 am by niam2023 »
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Art Vandelay

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1537 on: August 18, 2017, 03:25:32 am »
They are just so utterly desperate to have someone to give them a solution that doesn't require them to change who and what they truly are.
And what exactly is it that they could change about themselves that would give them prosperity? Honestly, I'd love to hear what you think will bring back a functional economy to the American countryside.

Offline niam2023

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1538 on: August 18, 2017, 03:46:21 am »
1) Actually look into a proper and functional education. There is a conscious and notable trend toward detest and distrust of college in these people, viewing it as a "liberal institution" or some such. They simply cannot acquire functionality without going to a reputable college.

2) Have some idea of a job beyond slaughtering their lungs in a coal mine or whatever other factory job they think they remember. So many of them are neurotically fixated on these ideas. They're not coming back. They can't come back.

3) Nobody is going to want to do business in the Ozarks or whatever part of Rural America you're from if its best known for its Confederate Generals and / or Klansmen / Neo-Nazis. Abandon the prejudice and idiotic theories about George Soros and Jewish conspiracies. Just see the backlash from the business communities to the Religious "Freedom" bills.
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Art Vandelay

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1539 on: August 18, 2017, 04:04:07 am »
1) Actually look into a proper and functional education. There is a conscious and notable trend toward detest and distrust of college in these people, viewing it as a "liberal institution" or some such. They simply cannot acquire functionality without going to a reputable college.
Well, that and they simply can't afford it. Education in the states isn't exactly cheap. Not to mention, a degree is pretty useless out in the sticks, simply because there's no one hiring.
2) Have some idea of a job beyond slaughtering their lungs in a coal mine or whatever other factory job they think they remember. So many of them are neurotically fixated on these ideas. They're not coming back. They can't come back.
What other jobs, exactly? There's literally nothing out there besides the odd KFC or McDonalds. That's really the main issue. All of the service based jobs that the US economy is based on nowadays are in the cities, simply because it's far more cost effective for the employer. If it were that simple, this wouldn't be a problem in the first place.
3) Nobody is going to want to do business in the Ozarks or whatever part of Rural America you're from if its best known for its Confederate Generals and / or Klansmen / Neo-Nazis. Abandon the prejudice and idiotic theories about George Soros and Jewish conspiracies. Just see the backlash from the business communities to the Religious "Freedom" bills.
That's objectively bullshit. No one's doing business because, due to economic circumstance, it's not profitable. Simple as that. They could be a bunch of the most open-mind intellectuals the world has ever seen and it still wouldn't change that.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1540 on: August 18, 2017, 04:39:26 am »
Because as you yourself said, it doesn't matter to these goldfish which populist it is they're cheering on so long as they feel someone is pandering to them in some way. They are just so utterly desperate to have someone to give them a solution that doesn't require them to change who and what they truly are.

Except that he is telling them that they've got to change.

He doesn't denigrate them--as he says, "You guys are heroes." But he doesn't hide that coal is a dying industry and that there are more jobs in green energy technology (just in installing the infrastructure, even if you're not a researcher or engineer). He points out that you can create jobs by installing high-speed internet infrastructure... which will create even more jobs because businesses will be able to go there because they'll have the internet speeds they need. And (though I can't recall if he points this out) there's always jobs in maintaining all that infrastructure.

Does he also talk about access to health care and education and such? Sure. And if you want to call those handouts, you can do that--though I might not do it in front of a former coal miner with black lung who absolutely needs health insurance to survive (health insurance that, as one such miner points out, Sanders does more to protect than Mitch McConnell, a Senator from the coal country state of Kentucky). But the jobs he talks about aren't handouts--they're necessary work that's absolutely vital to a functioning society.

Pandering is saying, "We're going to bring coal back." Yes, coal mining is what they know... but coal is a dying industry and modern methods (mountaintop removal) have very few jobs in them, in addition to creating tons of pollution (on top of what coal already generates) and permanently altering the landscape. (Never mind exacerbating already-existing health problems.) Being honest in offering your solutions is not pandering.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline niam2023

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1541 on: August 18, 2017, 04:58:30 am »
@Art;

I suppose the lack of education and the lack of good paying jobs tie right around into a cycle of sorts.

As for the third point, I would point to Marvel and numerous other companies backing away from whole states that tried to enact Religious Freedom Laws unless they went back and got rid of those, but the point I suppose is that jobs just don't exist there any more.

I'll grant you that.

So I suppose the question is; what to do about this? Well, I personally am not that concerned with it though I'll let there be people who are. As I said, I don't personally think these people can be saved. They dug this hole for themselves through years upon years of incredibly unwise voting, and it will take ascertainment (read, not voting for the person who offers the quickest, easiest and most Christian sounding fix for the situation) to get them out of it. Whether they're capable of that...well, we'll see what happens in 2018. I've made my position clear.

The problem still rests overwhelmingly with those who decided any populist would do, and chose a senile, narcissistic Nazi.

---------------

@ Dpareja:

The question therein is do the rural people WANT these different jobs - will they ultimately go for these ideas, vote for them, and support a comprehensive infrastructure plan that might undo their history of poor decisions. The most staunchly Republican ones can very well applaud such an idea in front of Sanders and then go and support Republican plans. The idea of Renewable Energy for many of them invokes a certain kneejerk response.

I've no problem with what the Republicans deem government handouts, I was pointing out the hypocrisy of the rural voter in wanting to deny someone else these things, and then claim it for themselves with no sense of irony.

If the solutions are feasible and can attain the support necessary to go forward, then they can go ahead.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1542 on: August 18, 2017, 05:05:30 am »
Finland has seen a lot of people move to cities to get education and jobs. The rural areas are dying off. Rather than ignore this countries should accept the trend and either fight it by help bring more jobs to the rural regions (for example by going full communism and forcibly moving  companies) or embracing it and focusing on mitigating problems in areas that lose people and helping the growing areas deal with the influx of new residents.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1543 on: August 18, 2017, 05:27:13 am »
The question therein is do the rural people WANT these different jobs - will they ultimately go for these ideas, vote for them, and support a comprehensive infrastructure plan that might undo their history of poor decisions. The most staunchly Republican ones can very well applaud such an idea in front of Sanders and then go and support Republican plans. The idea of Renewable Energy for many of them invokes a certain kneejerk response.

I've no problem with what the Republicans deem government handouts, I was pointing out the hypocrisy of the rural voter in wanting to deny someone else these things, and then claim it for themselves with no sense of irony.

If the solutions are feasible and can attain the support necessary to go forward, then they can go ahead.

Okay, then let's put candidates in front of them who will make that pitch and see who wins.

For instance, incumbent Senator Joe Manchin is facing a primary challenge from a Sandersesque candidate. Keep in mind that Sanders won the West Virginia primary pretty handily, with 51.41% of the statewide vote to Clinton's 35.84%, which means that Manchin is going to be in very tough to win the nomination. (I'll admit I don't know the eligibility rules for the Senate primary. The Presidential primary was open to registered Democrats and anyone not registered with another political party; since other primaries coincided with the Presidential contest, I imagine the eligibility rules were the same, but I don't know.) Can Swearingen win the general? I don't know. I don't think Manchin can, and I do think Swearingen can... but then I'm biased, because of my own political views vis-à-vis those of the candidates. But from what I can see, Swearingen will run on the sort of platform Sanders did, while Manchin won't. (Plus there's someone I'm debating with about the WV Senate race. He claims that WV is a cinch for the GOP because Trump won by 40; I'm pointing out that Trump ran on populist conservatism--faux populism, of course, but nonetheless--and that WV didn't necessarily go to Trump because of the conservatism but because of the populism, and that a populist left candidate could well win the Senate seat in 2018. So I'm even more biased because I really want him to be wrong.)

EDIT:

http://forums.fstdt.net/index.php?topic=6496.msg302452#msg302452

I'm going to link back to that excerpt from a speech by Premier Rachel Notley of Alberta eviscerating modern conservatism.

Quote
Once every once in a while, the mask slips and we see their real face, like Donald Trump, for instance, the real face of North American populist conservatism with the mask off, along with the little failed Donald Trump mini-mes who pop up in Canada every now and then.

(This was from early 2016.)
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 05:35:56 am by dpareja »
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Art Vandelay

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1544 on: August 18, 2017, 07:45:27 am »
Personally, I think trying to create jobs in general is a dead end long term, be it for city or country folk. I don't think it's a stretch at this point to say automation is the way of the future. At this point, we really need to get serious about addressing how society is going to function with a fully automated economy, or the entire 1st world is going to go the way of the US countryside within the next couple of decades. Doesn't matter how enlightened and morally grounded you are, you can't compete with bots.

Honestly, it kind of scares me that this issue almost never comes up in politics.