Author Topic: The whole muslim ban debacle  (Read 5864 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8358
  • Gender: Male
Re: The whole muslim ban debacle
« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2017, 03:50:22 pm »
...Unless the Customs agents decide to violate this court order as well because they support Trump and his ban. Which they have already done in some places the last time they got an order to stop being idiots.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline ironbite

  • Overlord of all that is good in Iacon City
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 10686
  • Gender: Male
  • Stuck in the middle with you.
Re: The whole muslim ban debacle
« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2017, 05:57:48 pm »
Yeah but Customs Border Patrol falls under the Department of Homeland Security and they will be risking their jobs now.

Ironbite-US Marshals need to be ashamed of themselves btw.

Offline dpareja

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 5680
Re: The whole muslim ban debacle
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2017, 07:50:40 pm »
Yeah but Customs Border Patrol falls under the Department of Homeland Security and they will be risking their jobs now.

Ironbite-US Marshals need to be ashamed of themselves btw.

...and the DHS falls under the executive branch, which falls under the President, who can just say, "Fuck the courts"?

As Hamilton noted in Federalist No. 78:

Quote
Whoever attentively considers the different departments of power must perceive, that, in a government in which they are separated from each other, the judiciary, from the nature of its functions, will always be the least dangerous to the political rights of the Constitution; because it will be least in a capacity to annoy or injure them. The Executive not only dispenses the honors, but holds the sword of the community. The legislature not only commands the purse, but prescribes the rules by which the duties and rights of every citizen are to be regulated. The judiciary, on the contrary, has no influence over either the sword or the purse; no direction either of the strength or of the wealth of the society; and can take no active resolution whatever. It may truly be said to have neither FORCE nor WILL, but merely judgment; and must ultimately depend upon the aid of the executive arm even for the efficacy of its judgments.

(emphasis mine)
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8358
  • Gender: Male
Re: The whole muslim ban debacle
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2017, 02:20:05 am »
Yeah but Customs Border Patrol falls under the Department of Homeland Security and they will be risking their jobs now.

Ironbite-US Marshals need to be ashamed of themselves btw.

But this is Trump's America and he will write a presidential pardon for each and every one of them if some rogue agency tries to enforce the laws AND if they actually do what the judge ordered Trump might fire them and replace them with people who will do what he says.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline dpareja

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 5680
Re: The whole muslim ban debacle
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2017, 02:45:18 am »
Yeah but Customs Border Patrol falls under the Department of Homeland Security and they will be risking their jobs now.

Ironbite-US Marshals need to be ashamed of themselves btw.

But this is Trump's America and he will write a presidential pardon for each and every one of them if some rogue agency tries to enforce the laws AND if they actually do what the judge ordered Trump might fire them and replace them with people who will do what he says.

If the pardon power extends that far, the President is effectively a dictator.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8358
  • Gender: Male
Re: The whole muslim ban debacle
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2017, 03:00:32 am »
Yeah but Customs Border Patrol falls under the Department of Homeland Security and they will be risking their jobs now.

Ironbite-US Marshals need to be ashamed of themselves btw.

But this is Trump's America and he will write a presidential pardon for each and every one of them if some rogue agency tries to enforce the laws AND if they actually do what the judge ordered Trump might fire them and replace them with people who will do what he says.

If the pardon power extends that far, the President is effectively a dictator.


...And?
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline dpareja

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 5680
Re: The whole muslim ban debacle
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2017, 03:28:36 am »
Yeah but Customs Border Patrol falls under the Department of Homeland Security and they will be risking their jobs now.

Ironbite-US Marshals need to be ashamed of themselves btw.

But this is Trump's America and he will write a presidential pardon for each and every one of them if some rogue agency tries to enforce the laws AND if they actually do what the judge ordered Trump might fire them and replace them with people who will do what he says.

If the pardon power extends that far, the President is effectively a dictator.


...And?

"...the President is effectively a dictator."

That not scary enough for you?

If the President can say, "Go break the law, then I'll pardon you for breaking the law," then there's basically nothing the President can't do. Either he acts within the law, and there's no need for the pardon, or he acts outside it, and issues pardons as necessary. In either case, there are no consequences.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8358
  • Gender: Male
Re: The whole muslim ban debacle
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2017, 04:44:41 am »
I didn't say that it's not a scary thing but it seems like something Trump would try to do.

Either he is removed from office or he will become a dictator. Those are the two options I see happening.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline dpareja

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 5680
Re: The whole muslim ban debacle
« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2017, 04:48:38 am »
I didn't say that it's not a scary thing but it seems like something Trump would try to do.

Either he is removed from office or he will become a dictator. Those are the two options I see happening.

Third option: he becomes a dictator in response to the attempt to remove him from office.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8358
  • Gender: Male
Re: The whole muslim ban debacle
« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2017, 05:05:12 am »
I didn't say that it's not a scary thing but it seems like something Trump would try to do.

Either he is removed from office or he will become a dictator. Those are the two options I see happening.

Third option: he becomes a dictator in response to the attempt to remove him from office.


No it's not. That's still the second option. So is "after Trump is removed from office the Alt-Right start a rebellion and with their fedora's of enlightenment and superiour meme-warfare take over USA and install Trump as Dictator-God-Emperor-for-life."

Third option would be "Despite some hiccups for the first few weeks, Trump serves two terms as the president while respecting the constitution and ruling wisely to the surprise of everyone on Earth."
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8358
  • Gender: Male
Re: The whole muslim ban debacle
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2017, 07:05:46 am »
Or I guess they could simply decide that the Muslim ban is cool and there's nothing wrong with it:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-administration-files-appeal-washington-judges-travel-ban/story?id=45274114
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline dpareja

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 5680
Re: The whole muslim ban debacle
« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2017, 08:16:50 am »
Or I guess they could simply decide that the Muslim ban is cool and there's nothing wrong with it:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-administration-files-appeal-washington-judges-travel-ban/story?id=45274114

They can appeal, but the appeals court has said that the restraining order is still in effect for now.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8358
  • Gender: Male
Re: The whole muslim ban debacle
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2017, 09:31:51 am »
...Too complicated for me. There are too many appeals and denies of whatevers for me to keep track of what is going on. I thought the article meant that the ban was in effect and the attempt to cancel it had been cancelled.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline ironbite

  • Overlord of all that is good in Iacon City
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 10686
  • Gender: Male
  • Stuck in the middle with you.
Re: The whole muslim ban debacle
« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2017, 09:50:57 am »
It's not that complicated if you pay attention.

Ironbite-i stead of wallowing in dispair

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8358
  • Gender: Male
Re: The whole muslim ban debacle
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2017, 01:21:48 pm »
No, I really mean that the lawspeak is getting over my comprehension level.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!