Author Topic: Swiss islamists flee to Turkey  (Read 633 times)

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Offline SomeApe

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Swiss islamists flee to Turkey
« on: April 28, 2017, 08:46:53 am »
Source: Neue Zürcher Zeitung
28.04.2017 10:54

https://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/islamische-fundamentalisten-izrs-weicht-fuer-konferenz-nach-istanbul-aus-ld.1289313

Translation by me.
Also footnotes and [stuff in these brackets]

Swiss islamists flee to Erdogan

Because of an alleged, through "islamophobia poisoned social climate",  the self proclaimed  Islamischer Zentralrat der Schweiz* holds its "peace conference" abroad - in Turkey.

The controversial Islamische Zentralrat der Schweiz (IZRS)* wanted to hold its "peace conference" in the World Trade Center in Zurich nord on the 6th and 7th of may. The organisation estimated approximately thousand guests, invited were numberous speakers, including controversial figures out of the islamistic milieu. But the Pensionskasse** of Kanton Zurich which owns the desired meeting place intervened and forbid the renting. The IZRS raged and spoke of "breach of contract", which they will counter - but now the organisation has decided on an alternative scenario.

According to a press conference which was convened at short notice in Zurich on friday forenoon, the IZRS adjourns the conference on the next but one weekend to Istanbul. All speakers had confirmed that they would speak in the turkish metropolis as well. "Not a turkish audience will be adressed, but furthermore the muslim and non-muslim public in Switzerland and middle europe." writes the IZRS on its website. For that reason, the whole programm will be streamed on the internet and simultaneously translated to German, they say.

Value-conservatives*** and inner security.

Head of IZRS, Nicolas Blancho, says the reason for the sidestep to Turkey is that there are "justified doubts that there exists any significant social will to put through the constitutional basic rights, independent of race, provenance or religion." He speaks of a "poisoned climate" and sees a tendency towards restricting basic rights especially when dealing with muslims. Value-conservative*** opinions would be enough, he claims, to be suspected of "endangering the inner security".

Blancho points at the decision of the Bundesgericht [federal court] in october 2015. The judges in Lausanne reproved the authorities in Freiburg because they forbid the IZRS holding its annual conference in 2014 at the congress center in Freiburg, thus violating the association's right to assemble.

Relieved by the development is Zurich's security director, Mario Fehr (SP [social democratic party]). "I don't really care where congresses of islamists happen", he says to Radio 1. "The best would probably be if they didn't happen at all. But if they do, then please not in Zurich, but somewhere on this world. Best in Saudi Arabia - but if they go to Turkey, that's ok too."

*"Islamic Central Council of Switzerland"
**pension fund
***didn't know how to translate that. Basically a conservative that cares about traditional values and virtues. Well, don't they all? :)

Please let me know if anything is unclear in the translation.

Edit: Corrected two minor errors
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 08:54:53 am by SomeApe »
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Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Swiss islamists flee to Turkey
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2017, 09:10:52 am »
Denying platform for Islamic fundamentalists? Well done.

It's true that the social climate has a lot of islamophobia and unfortunately it makes it easy for them to play the victim here. Complaining about conservative values is obviously and hilariously hypocritical coming from religious fundies. This shit poisons the social climate even further: using progressive language in their propaganda discredits it and confuses the message it tries to convey separating the echo chambers from each other more.

Offline SomeApe

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Re: Swiss islamists flee to Turkey
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2017, 09:40:43 am »
Denying platform for Islamic fundamentalists? Well done.
Yup! At least one had some control over it, now they go to Erdogan's New Fundie Paradise where they can do whatever they want.

It's true that the social climate has a lot of islamophobia and unfortunately it makes it easy for them to play the victim here. Complaining about conservative values is obviously and hilariously hypocritical coming from religious fundies. This shit poisons the social climate even further: using progressive language in their propaganda discredits it and confuses the message it tries to convey separating the echo chambers from each other more.
Oh, no, they didn't complain about conservative values! They complained that their own conservative values are used as a reason to suspect them of terrorism.
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Re: Swiss islamists flee to Turkey
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2017, 10:31:24 am »
***didn't know how to translate that. Basically a conservative that cares about traditional values and virtues. Well, don't they all? :)

In America, no, not all. We tend to divide our conservatives into two camps: "fiscal conservatives", i.e. the ones that want lower taxes and trust the free market to take care of everything, and "social conservatives", i.e. those who want the evil gays and wimminz to stay in their place, which I believe is "in hiding" and "in the kitchen" respectively. There's obviously a lot of overlap, and most social conservatives are fiscal conservatives and vice versa, but they are different. You'd be talking about social conservatives here.
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Offline SomeApe

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Re: Swiss islamists flee to Turkey
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2017, 12:35:35 pm »
***didn't know how to translate that. Basically a conservative that cares about traditional values and virtues. Well, don't they all? :)

In America, no, not all. We tend to divide our conservatives into two camps: "fiscal conservatives", i.e. the ones that want lower taxes and trust the free market to take care of everything, and "social conservatives", i.e. those who want the evil gays and wimminz to stay in their place, which I believe is "in hiding" and "in the kitchen" respectively. There's obviously a lot of overlap, and most social conservatives are fiscal conservatives and vice versa, but they are different. You'd be talking about social conservatives here.

Yes. I interpret the word "conservative" as an adjective (or noun) that means "conserving" something.
Trying to stay with the status quo, not being progressiv. Anything can be conserved, whether it be religious, political, economic or social viewpoints. A "Conservative", again, in MY opinion, is someone who basically has an "argument-by-tradition"-bias. And I mean no insult by saying that. This is just how the word is most commonly used in Switzerland. And I could be wrong with that too. But the etymology of the word (conservare ; Italian) seems to confirm this use of the word.
On topic, it's religious conservatives (or conservative religionists) because they are Salafists.



ETA: In the German language, one can just stick words like 'Wert' (Value) and 'Konservative' together to make it 'Wertkonservative'. Just like they do with 'Wutbürger' (angry citizen) and 'Lügenpresse' (lie press). It gives rise to abominations like 'Frühstückseiersollbruchstellenverursacher', meaning "inducer of a predetermined breaking point on breakfast eggs". So yeah, it's kind of difficult to translate such words.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 12:47:56 pm by SomeApe »
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Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Swiss islamists flee to Turkey
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2017, 06:45:52 am »
Denying platform for Islamic fundamentalists? Well done.
Yup! At least one had some control over it, now they go to Erdogan's New Fundie Paradise where they can do whatever they want.

It's true that the social climate has a lot of islamophobia and unfortunately it makes it easy for them to play the victim here. Complaining about conservative values is obviously and hilariously hypocritical coming from religious fundies. This shit poisons the social climate even further: using progressive language in their propaganda discredits it and confuses the message it tries to convey separating the echo chambers from each other more.
Oh, no, they didn't complain about conservative values! They complained that their own conservative values are used as a reason to suspect them of terrorism.

Oops, sorry. The point is still accurate on using islamophobia as a weapon, though.

Offline SomeApe

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Re: Swiss islamists flee to Turkey
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2017, 07:10:04 am »
Denying platform for Islamic fundamentalists? Well done.
Yup! At least one had some control over it, now they go to Erdogan's New Fundie Paradise where they can do whatever they want.

It's true that the social climate has a lot of islamophobia and unfortunately it makes it easy for them to play the victim here. Complaining about conservative values is obviously and hilariously hypocritical coming from religious fundies. This shit poisons the social climate even further: using progressive language in their propaganda discredits it and confuses the message it tries to convey separating the echo chambers from each other more.
Oh, no, they didn't complain about conservative values! They complained that their own conservative values are used as a reason to suspect them of terrorism.

Oops, sorry. The point is still accurate on using islamophobia as a weapon, though.

No need to apologise :) It's probably my bad translation that confused you.
I'm still not sure if your "Well done" was meant sarcastically or literally. I first thought you meant it sarcastically, hence my answer, but I'm not sure.
Don't get me wrong, of course it's good to stop fundies but lately I've been doubting the benefit of the "no-platform-policy". Sometimes it works, sometimes it backfires.
But maybe we should start another thread to discuss "no platform" if you're interested.
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Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Swiss islamists flee to Turkey
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2017, 09:51:20 am »
Yeah, text doesn't convey sarcasm - or lack of it - very well. In this case my approval is genuine.

If you are interested in discussion about denying platform, go ahead and start a thread. It might provide a bit of entertainment for certain people here who like to use Reverse Paragon as their chewtoy because FREE SPEECH. Personally, I generally support non-governmental actors refusing to offer platform for people who they think are spreading hate and preach for violence. I also tentatively support legal action against worst expressions of hate speech as long as the legal term is strictly defined and doesn't limit fact based criticism.

Offline Kanzenkankaku

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Re: Swiss islamists flee to Turkey
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2017, 02:45:34 am »
Yeah, text doesn't convey sarcasm - or lack of it - very well. In this case my approval is genuine.

If you are interested in discussion about denying platform, go ahead and start a thread. It might provide a bit of entertainment for certain people here who like to use Reverse Paragon as their chewtoy because FREE SPEECH. Personally, I generally support non-governmental actors refusing to offer platform for people who they think are spreading hate and preach for violence. I also tentatively support legal action against worst expressions of hate speech as long as the legal term is strictly defined and doesn't limit fact based criticism.

I personally only support an intervention by the government if the speakers actually call for violence against other people, and even then in a very limited scope. As far as non-gov people denying people speaking invitations I do largely agree. However, I feel largely contrarian to many of my fellow lefties in that I really hate it when groups like the so-called Anti-Fascists from By Any Means Necessary show up and riot in order to force Universities to ban certain speakers. Mostly because that goes directly against my view that colleges can invite any damn person they want to, no matter how insipid or vile I find the person in question's opinions.

Offline SomeApe

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Re: Swiss islamists flee to Turkey
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2017, 01:44:16 pm »
Grrr... Zurich allowed the fundies to go around throwing their quurans around again!
 >:( >:( >:( idiots
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Re: Swiss islamists flee to Turkey
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2017, 07:40:57 pm »
I misread that as Quarians. I was very confused for a moment there.
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Offline Kanzenkankaku

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Re: Swiss islamists flee to Turkey
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2017, 05:34:47 am »
I misread that as Quarians. I was very confused for a moment there.

So was I.
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