Author Topic: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights  (Read 644 times)

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Offline dpareja

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http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/trans-rights-bill-1.4113455

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It's almost a cliché, but nonetheless true: sometimes the left and the right, when they go far enough down their respective rabbit holes, wind up meeting in some strange common burrow and agree, as the wickedly ironic Dr. Frank'N'Furter put it, on the cause, but not the symptom.

...

Among the issues that remain, one of the most prominent is transgender rights. Granted, it's not as seismic as abortion, and it affects far fewer people – I'm not even sure I know a transgender person – but it's a hot topic.

Risibly, it was a prominent issue in last year's American presidential election. Republican so-cons cried in alarm about allowing transgender people to use the bathroom of their choice, which is the guidance former president Barack Obama gave the nation's schools.

In the view of social conservatives, that invites sinister, perverted men to simply declare themselves women, then waltz into girls' bathrooms and locker rooms and satisfy all manner of disgusting urges.

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As Canada's new law on transgender rights — Bill C-16, which seeks to shield "gender expression" and "gender identity" from discrimination or hatred — makes its way through Parliament, some feminist activists are warning that it goes too far.

Hilla Kerner, of the Vancouver Rape Relief and Women's Shelter, basically told a Senate committee this week that transgender women really aren't women, and threaten the existence of exclusively "female-born" spaces, such as rape crisis centres.

Women who are not born with vaginas, she said, do not have to suffer the second-class existence of "female-born" women. Instead, they could theoretically choose to be a man if they like, which makes them much more privileged.

Those who are not "female-born," she added, cannot "know the embarrassment of having our clothes stained with blood from our period, the anxiety of facing an unwanted pregnancy and the fear of being raped, and we know the comfort of grouping with other women."

Meghan Murphy, a founder of the website Feminist Current, seconded Kerner's remarks, criticizing the proposed law because "it treats gender as a personal choice."

Well. Republicans Ted Cruz, Rick Santorum and Donald Trump together couldn't have expressed that thought more perfectly.
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2017, 09:47:55 pm »
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the fear of being raped

well, it's good to know we're apparently immune to rape.
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Offline Id82

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Re: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2017, 10:34:30 pm »
The horse shoe theory in effect.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2017, 07:30:06 am »
Bigots buddying up with bigots of other tribes, even if they can't stand each other on other occasions. There are precedents, like US Christian fundies buddying up with Islamist fundies to thwart international aid attempts to provide reproductive health care in third world countries.

Offline pyro

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Re: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2017, 02:53:13 pm »
Immune to pregnancy resulting from rape.

(as if that's the only problem with rape)
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Online Askold

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Re: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2017, 04:23:42 pm »
Quote
the fear of being raped

well, it's good to know we're apparently immune to rape.

Immune to "fear of being raped" to be specific.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2017, 05:43:28 pm »
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the fear of being raped

well, it's good to know we're apparently immune to rape.

TERFs and incels would probably agree that women can't rape men.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Offline davedan

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Re: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2017, 05:54:05 pm »
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the fear of being raped

well, it's good to know we're apparently immune to rape.

Immune to "fear of being raped" to be specific.

I think TERFs must think that Trans people are like Kender or Elves in a D & D game. Immune to fear, sleeping draughts and charm spells. I'm surprised they didn't add naturally proficient with bows.

Offline Skybison

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Re: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2017, 02:52:08 am »
Seriously I don't know about rape specifically but Transpeople are among the groups most likely to be victims of violence.  Just because their experiences are different from ciswomen's doesn't make them the same as cismen's. 

Also what about Transmen, they seem to get ignored in all this.

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2017, 10:15:56 pm »
TERFs mostly don't care about transmen (they are pretty condescending and misgendery about them, but have nowhere near the same passionate hatred as for trans women). Also like a non-zero amount of them are dysphoric and not transitioning or detransitioned (I've heard a lot about how detransitioners fall in with TERFs because it's the only community they can find), so they have some empathy for them I guess.

Social conservatives don't talk about trans men because it's much easier to spin a threat narrative about men in dresses attacking girls in bathrooms.
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Offline Random Guy

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Re: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2017, 03:25:47 pm »
Sighhhh... Good old horseshoe theory at work.
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Offline TheContrarian

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Re: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2017, 05:54:35 pm »
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the fear of being raped

well, it's good to know we're apparently immune to rape.

TERFs and incels would probably agree that women can't rape men.

While oddly being in agreement with, oh I dunno, the LAW of most western countries.

For example, England and Wales

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    Rape

        (1) A person (A) commits an offence if—

            (a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,

            (b) B does not consent to the penetration, and

            (c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

So, a crime defined by ownership of a penis, basically.  One wonders if there's a legal precedent where a rapist has tried to escape justice by pointing to the "he" pronoun [totally not a prejudicial definition or anything] and claiming their pronouns are "handflop"/"handflops"/"handflopself" and therefore according to the law they can't be guilty as the law prescribes one must use "he" pronouns to be considered a rapist...


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Offline dpareja

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Re: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2017, 05:59:28 pm »
That's what's in statutory law, but England has a long tradition of having crimes that are only at common law and nowhere in statutory law. For instance, I don't think murder was explicitly a crime at statutory law until relatively recently.

So while the statutory definition of rape may require that the perpetrator have a penis, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the common-law definition was more expansive.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Online Askold

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Re: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2017, 12:24:20 am »
That's what's in statutory law, but England has a long tradition of having crimes that are only at common law and nowhere in statutory law. For instance, I don't think murder was explicitly a crime at statutory law until relatively recently.

So while the statutory definition of rape may require that the perpetrator have a penis, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the common-law definition was more expansive.


You got me curious. A quick search on the internet revealed that women have been convicted of raping men or other women in Britain. And the Wikipedia article also mentions that the first time a man was sentenced for raping another man is actually quite recent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_males#United_Kingdom
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Kanzenkankaku

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Re: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2017, 05:26:50 am »
TERFs mostly don't care about transmen (they are pretty condescending and misgendery about them, but have nowhere near the same passionate hatred as for trans women). Also like a non-zero amount of them are dysphoric and not transitioning or detransitioned (I've heard a lot about how detransitioners fall in with TERFs because it's the only community they can find), so they have some empathy for them I guess.

Social conservatives don't talk about trans men because it's much easier to spin a threat narrative about men in dresses attacking girls in bathrooms.

I remember this one TERF-type blogger that called herself "Dirtywhiteboi" and she really hated Transmen, but she seemed to have been the exception to the rule.