Author Topic: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights  (Read 741 times)

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Offline TheContrarian

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Re: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2017, 02:25:47 pm »
That's what's in statutory law, but England has a long tradition of having crimes that are only at common law and nowhere in statutory law. For instance, I don't think murder was explicitly a crime at statutory law until relatively recently.

So while the statutory definition of rape may require that the perpetrator have a penis, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the common-law definition was more expansive.


You got me curious. A quick search on the internet revealed that women have been convicted of raping men or other women in Britain. And the Wikipedia article also mentions that the first time a man was sentenced for raping another man is actually quite recent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_males#United_Kingdom

You need more wikiception.  One link deeper in the one you posted leads to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_sex_in_chains_case

And one quotes

Quote
Under the then-Sexual Offences Act 1956, due to the victim's gender, there was no crime of rape committed, though indecent assault of a man applied.

Ahem?



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Offline Askold

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Re: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2017, 03:29:34 pm »
Quote
Under the then-Sexual Offences Act 1956, due to the victim's gender, there was no crime of rape committed, though indecent assault of a man applied.

Ahem?

Quote
No extradition proceedings were instituted by Britain, and the English court sentenced McKinney in absentia to a year in jail.[15] Under the then-Sexual Offences Act 1956, due to the victim's gender, there was no crime of rape committed, though indecent assault of a man applied.[16]

Ahem? Why did you leave out the part where the courts said that she did commit a crime and sentenced her of indecent assault?

She was declared guilty of assault. So even if this was not technically "rape" as defined in the law it is still what is commonly known as rape even if the law that she was sentenced for violation of is different.

Just as is explained in the reply to this petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/124524

The laws of Britain state that for a crime to be "rape" it has to have "penile penetration" but there are other sexual assault crimes that can be committed by women and the sentences for those can also be heavy.

Kinda like how in Finland a "murha" (murder) is a specific type of homicide which fills 3 qualifications: a) It is premeditated. b) It is "exceptionally brutal."  c) It has been committed by a person who is in their right mind.

So killing someone with one bullet to the head is not technically a "murder" but it is still illegal and carries a heavy punishment. (I think the term would be Tappo / manslaughter.)
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Offline TheContrarian

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Re: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2017, 03:51:27 pm »
Quote
Under the then-Sexual Offences Act 1956, due to the victim's gender, there was no crime of rape committed, though indecent assault of a man applied.

Ahem?

Quote
No extradition proceedings were instituted by Britain, and the English court sentenced McKinney in absentia to a year in jail.[15] Under the then-Sexual Offences Act 1956, due to the victim's gender, there was no crime of rape committed, though indecent assault of a man applied.[16]

Ahem? Why did you leave out the part where the courts said that she did commit a crime and sentenced her of indecent assault?

She was declared guilty of assault. So even if this was not technically "rape" as defined in the law it is still what is commonly known as rape even if the law that she was sentenced for violation of is different.

Just as is explained in the reply to this petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/124524

The laws of Britain state that for a crime to be "rape" it has to have "penile penetration" but there are other sexual assault crimes that can be committed by women and the sentences for those can also be heavy.

Kinda like how in Finland a "murha" (murder) is a specific type of homicide which fills 3 qualifications: a) It is premeditated. b) It is "exceptionally brutal."  c) It has been committed by a person who is in their right mind.

So killing someone with one bullet to the head is not technically a "murder" but it is still illegal and carries a heavy punishment. (I think the term would be Tappo / manslaughter.)

Sentenced to a year in jail in absentia, shrugged and didn't give a fuck about extradition and applying said sentence. 

Can you imagine the outcry if you reversed the genders and set it in the modern day?

"So what if it's basically rape except we've conveniently got an asterisk so that people of your demographic have legal immunity to that charge.  We can give you a sentence equivalent to someone found guilty of driving without due care and attention and call it equality.  It's not like the world's most famous 'equality movement' is going to give a shit since it favours them XD"


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Offline TheContrarian

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Re: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2017, 03:53:40 pm »
Also, bear in mind that in 1956 (when this law was written) the UK still had the death penalty.

Rape was a capital crime.

That only men could be found guilty of.  By definition.


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Offline dpareja

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Re: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2017, 12:12:52 pm »
http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/women-only-spa-counterpoint-1.4170158

A woman-only spa came under fire for not allowing transwomen; naturally, it has defenders.
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: TERFs and social conservatives team up to fight trans rights
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2017, 06:31:30 pm »
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Trans activists would argue the distinction between women and trans women is an unimportant one — that people who identify as trans women are women like all other women. But the reality is that internal feelings don't change outward impressions. To some women and girls, the presence of a male body can leave them feeling uncomfortable, uneasy and even threatened.

And to some women and girls, being told that we are not real women can also leave us feeling uncomfortable, uneasy and even threatened. Given that, y'know, transphobic hate crimes are a thing. But that's only a problem when it happens to cis people, I guess
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