Author Topic: I didn't know Australia had second-class citizens  (Read 403 times)

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Offline pyro

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Re: I didn't know Australia had second-class citizens
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2017, 12:47:15 pm »
Honestly, the only difference between de facto requirements and de jur requirements is that the latter get more thoroughly discussed.
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: I didn't know Australia had second-class citizens
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2017, 10:21:45 pm »
Did you know you can't become a senator in Canada unless you are at least 30 years old? Shameful.

Did you know you can't become a senator in Argentina unless you are at least 30 years old? Shameful.

In all seriousness, I understand why the requirement was there initially, but I don't think it really needs to be there any more. I'd rather see something like requiring a graduate degree (or similar professional certification), with either that degree or an undergraduate degree from a Canadian university (but then I'm biased).

EDIT: And an age requirement is something that, barring unfortunate events, everybody will eventually attain; being natural-born (President of Argentina) is not; holding no other citizenships (Australian Parliament) is something that some people can't help (it's very hard to get rid of some countries' citizenships--I'm looking at you, USA).

EDIT #2: There are also property and net worth requirements for the Senate, but (excepting a technicality relating to Quebec) Parliament can do away with those by a simple majority vote should it wish to.


Many things about the argentinian political system are shameful, this is not in dispute.

I just think it's silly to claim any requirement to hold elected office, which ~every country has including yours, means someone is a second-class citizen.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: I didn't know Australia had second-class citizens
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2017, 10:27:46 pm »
Did you know you can't become a senator in Canada unless you are at least 30 years old? Shameful.

Did you know you can't become a senator in Argentina unless you are at least 30 years old? Shameful.

In all seriousness, I understand why the requirement was there initially, but I don't think it really needs to be there any more. I'd rather see something like requiring a graduate degree (or similar professional certification), with either that degree or an undergraduate degree from a Canadian university (but then I'm biased).

EDIT: And an age requirement is something that, barring unfortunate events, everybody will eventually attain; being natural-born (President of Argentina) is not; holding no other citizenships (Australian Parliament) is something that some people can't help (it's very hard to get rid of some countries' citizenships--I'm looking at you, USA).

EDIT #2: There are also property and net worth requirements for the Senate, but (excepting a technicality relating to Quebec) Parliament can do away with those by a simple majority vote should it wish to.


Many things about the argentinian political system are shameful, this is not in dispute.

I just think it's silly to claim any requirement to hold elected office, which ~every country has including yours, means someone is a second-class citizen.

Senators are not elected; they are appointed.

And when some citizens have rights or privileges other citizens cannot attain (or not without great difficulty), or some are subject to certain duties or responsibilities others are not, then I do consider there to be multiple classes of citizenship.
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: I didn't know Australia had second-class citizens
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2017, 07:19:32 am »
You mean senators aren't even voted on in your country?!? Oh my god, no wonder we're having this discussion, your banana republic, poutine-exporting country simply does not understand how democracy works.

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Offline ironbite

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Re: I didn't know Australia had second-class citizens
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2017, 11:05:58 am »
......I was about to change my avatar to the Glorious One and now I've gotta go with Thor?

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Offline dpareja

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Re: I didn't know Australia had second-class citizens
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2017, 03:00:53 pm »
You mean senators aren't even voted on in your country?!?

I have long been convinced that the more apparent democracy a country has, the less actual democracy it has.

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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: I didn't know Australia had second-class citizens
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2017, 08:33:27 pm »
Senators are not elected; they are appointed.
My mistake, sorry.

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And when some citizens have rights or privileges other citizens cannot attain (or not without great difficulty), or some are subject to certain duties or responsibilities others are not, then I do consider there to be multiple classes of citizenship.

I think this is broad enough to dilute 'multiple classes of citizenship' to uselessness. E.g. the entire existence of legislators means some people get to make laws, a rather important privilege, while others do not. And there is indeed great difficulty in becoming a legislator.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: I didn't know Australia had second-class citizens
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2017, 02:08:05 am »
Quote
And when some citizens have rights or privileges other citizens cannot attain (or not without great difficulty), or some are subject to certain duties or responsibilities others are not, then I do consider there to be multiple classes of citizenship.

I think this is broad enough to dilute 'multiple classes of citizenship' to uselessness. E.g. the entire existence of legislators means some people get to make laws, a rather important privilege, while others do not. And there is indeed great difficulty in becoming a legislator.

I should clarify, then; what I mean is that these things are true through no fault of their own. Someone can't help if they're born with multiple citizenships (and even if they try to get rid of them, the country in question might refuse the application), for instance, or that they're not a natural-born citizen. But if you run for office and fail to be elected, then some of the blame does fall on you.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: I didn't know Australia had second-class citizens
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2017, 06:18:33 pm »
Fair enough.
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: I didn't know Australia had second-class citizens
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2017, 10:30:36 am »
......I was about to change my avatar to the Glorious One [...]

...Art?
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: I didn't know Australia had second-class citizens
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2017, 10:31:55 am »
......I was about to change my avatar to the Glorious One [...]

...Art?

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This guy, that is his wrestling entrance. But alas, he's Canadian.
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: I didn't know Australia had second-class citizens
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2017, 10:33:35 am »
So, neither Art nor my penis?  Such a shame.
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