Author Topic: Not so fast afterall  (Read 1494 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline gyeonghwa

  • Uppity and Proud of It
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2041
  • Gender: Male
  • That angry queer your tone trolls warned you about
    • Queer & Khmer
Not so fast afterall
« on: February 22, 2012, 04:33:07 pm »
http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2012/02/breaking-news-error-undoes-faster.html#.T0VSfXE9bHA.facebook

Remember how it was thought that neutrinos were faster than light when a study broke in September? Yeah not so much:

Quote
According to sources familiar with the experiment, the 60 nanoseconds discrepancy appears to come from a bad connection between a fiber optic cable that connects to the GPS receiver used to correct the timing of the neutrinos' flight and an electronic card in a computer. After tightening the connection and then measuring the time it takes data to travel the length of the fiber, researchers found that the data arrive 60 nanoseconds earlier than assumed. Since this time is subtracted from the overall time of flight, it appears to explain the early arrival of the neutrinos. New data, however, will be needed to confirm this hypothesis

Of course, people were already speculating that it was an error to begin with but now we have what that error was. Too bad. No light speed travels for you!
That may be the single gayest thing I have ever read on this board. Or the old one. ;)

Offline Shano

  • Bishop
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
  • Gender: Male
  • Trust me, I am a doctor.
Re: Not so fast afterall
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2012, 09:32:08 pm »
How is that too bad? It's a fantastic news. It means that we do not have to revisit everything done in physics in the last 100 years and possibly have to design something completely new.

Also this http://blogs.nature.com/news/2012/02/faster-than-light-neutrino-measurement-has-two-possible-errors.html. Seems like there is another error but it may be working in the opposite direction, so the OPERA guys are not conceding yet :)
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 09:35:08 pm by Shano »
The unbreakable wall

Offline Da Rat Bastid

  • Pope
  • ****
  • Posts: 397
  • Gender: Male
  • Takes what he can, while he can.
Re: Not so fast afterall
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2012, 12:24:30 am »
How is that too bad? It's a fantastic news. It means that we do not have to revisit everything done in physics in the last 100 years and possibly have to design something completely new.

In science, throwing away ideas that no longer work isn't considered a bad thing. We're not talking about creationists, Shano. :P

Offline Lithp

  • Official FSTDT Spokesman
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1339
Re: Not so fast afterall
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2012, 12:34:45 am »
There are certain ideas it would be mighty bad for science to have to throw out. Imagine if we discovered that DNA doesn't actually do a damn thing. Yeah, in a sense, it would open up chances for discovery. However, much more immediately, it means all of modern biology was basically pointless.

Offline Art Vandelay

  • Greatest Person to Ever Grace this Shitty Forum
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8785
  • Gender: Male
  • Check Your Privilege
Re: Not so fast afterall
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2012, 01:23:14 am »
There are certain ideas it would be mighty bad for science to have to throw out. Imagine if we discovered that DNA doesn't actually do a damn thing. Yeah, in a sense, it would open up chances for discovery. However, much more immediately, it means all of modern biology was basically pointless.
It's why, when designing electrical circuits, we still pretend electrical energy moves from positive to negative despite the fact that it's been proven to do the opposite.

Offline Lithp

  • Official FSTDT Spokesman
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1339
Re: Not so fast afterall
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2012, 01:31:03 am »
I've no idea what you're trying to get at.

Offline SpaceProg

  • What you read is what you get.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 5511
  • Nocturnal
Re: Not so fast afterall
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2012, 01:31:15 am »
Does that mean I still don't get my own TARDIS?

Offline Art Vandelay

  • Greatest Person to Ever Grace this Shitty Forum
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8785
  • Gender: Male
  • Check Your Privilege
Re: Not so fast afterall
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2012, 01:47:32 am »
I've no idea what you're trying to get at.
"Conventional current" and the fact that it's still used.

Google it if need be.

Offline Jack Bauer

  • Poetic Badass
  • Pope
  • ****
  • Posts: 448
  • Gender: Male
  • On Craggy Island, under deep cover.
Re: Not so fast afterall
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2012, 05:31:31 am »
Art is saying that, by definition (because they knew no better at the time) current flows from positive to negative - however, it was subsequently discovered that electrons physically flow from negative to positive. To this day, current flow on circuit diagrams is shown by an arrowhead from positive to negative.
Part wolf, part pirate.



“Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. That's relativity.”   -  Albert Einstein.

Offline Da Rat Bastid

  • Pope
  • ****
  • Posts: 397
  • Gender: Male
  • Takes what he can, while he can.
Re: Not so fast afterall
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2012, 06:04:47 am »
There are certain ideas it would be mighty bad for science to have to throw out. Imagine if we discovered that DNA doesn't actually do a damn thing. Yeah, in a sense, it would open up chances for discovery. However, much more immediately, it means all of modern biology was basically pointless.

The search for knowledge is never pointless.  All the hypothetical new discovery would point out is that people were searching in the wrong place.  Opening up chances for new discovery is what science is all about -- learning more about how the world works.

To be honest, when Art first mentioned the example with electronics engineers and electric current, my very first thought was, "He's kidding, right?  Ignoring evidence that conflicts with popular theories isn't science.  That's what religion does--what fundies do.  He's got to be kidding...right??"


Offline DarkfireTaimatsu

  • Pope
  • ****
  • Posts: 423
  • Gender: Male
  • Here be impies.
    • Taiblog
Re: Not so fast afterall
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2012, 06:08:24 am »
That's why scientists increased the speed of light in 2208!
A limerick:

There once was a unicorn who would shove
His rainbows around like a dove
"Always I'll be with you
And then make-believe with you
Harmony, Harmony, oh love"

Offline Lithp

  • Official FSTDT Spokesman
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1339
Re: Not so fast afterall
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2012, 12:18:09 am »
I like this quote:

"In science, there are no philosophical high roads, marked with epistemological sign posts."

Not sure how it became some kind of sin to want a theory that can continue reliably predicting results. It's not always going to happen, but it's what you're shooting for.

Offline Shane for Wax

  • Official Mosin Nagant Fanboy, Crazy, and Lord of Androgynes
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Gender: Male
  • Twin to shy, lover of weapons, pagan, wolf-brother
    • Game Podunk
Re: Not so fast afterall
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2012, 12:24:01 am »
Someone made an oopsy-daisie.

&
"The human race. Greatest monsters of them all."
"Ke barjurir gar'ade, jagyc'ade kot'la a dalyc'ade kotla'shya."
Fucking Dalek twats I’m going to twat you over the head with my fucking TARDIS you fucking fucks!

Offline Jack Mann

  • Gold Bugger Jihad Pony
  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 603
Re: Not so fast afterall
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2012, 10:00:03 am »
Here's the thing, though.  No matter how incomplete our knowledge of science is, it works.  We still mark diagrams positive to negative because building a circuit that way works (though for different reasons than we originally thought).  Newtonian physics was proven wrong (or at least incomplete) by relativity, but it's still useful to a large degree.

New discoveries aren't going to make us throw away everything we know, they're just going to force us to refine further, to figure out where and why there are exceptions.  If neutrinos did move faster than light, that doesn't throw everything we know out the window.  It just means that there's one instance where things don't work the way we expect it to.  We still know many, many places where it does work the way we expect, because we have years of experiments behind us proving it.  The fact that quantum physics counters so many previously held notions didn't make all previously known physics useless.  So no, it wouldn't be terrible, awful news if the neutrinos had traveled faster than light.  It's not terrible awful news that they didn't, either.  It's just another step along the way to understanding the universe. 
اللغة العربية صعبة ، ولكنها جميلة جدا

Offline Lithp

  • Official FSTDT Spokesman
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1339
Re: Not so fast afterall
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2012, 01:28:15 pm »
Quote
So no, it wouldn't be terrible, awful news if the neutrinos had traveled faster than light.  It's not terrible awful news that they didn't, either.

This is what I should have said to begin with. Also, my example was probably bad because I don't know shit about physics. The point I was trying to get at was that IF the cornerstone of an entire branch of science is proven false, some of the implications of that are undesirable.