Author Topic: Misconceptions About America  (Read 6472 times)

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Offline TheUnknown

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Misconceptions About America
« on: January 13, 2012, 11:17:21 am »
I saw this post on tumblr and wondered what you guys would think about it.

Quote
Let me start off by saying that I am well aware that as a whole, we have it a lot better than most places, but I wanted to clear up some stuff that people seem to assume about us. I don’t think non Americans are aware that we aren’t quite as privileged and dumb as we look. There is this image of a spoiled and stupid American on Tumblr that is mostly perpetuated by the middle class white kids that are littered all over the internet and their limited experience with their suburban communities.

Here are links to a couple of the rebuttals to it:

http://thedesolationofsmaug.tumblr.com/post/13952966766/some-misconceptions-about-the-usa-that-i-see-a-lot-on

http://opsucrus.tumblr.com/post/13952293200/some-misconceptions-about-the-usa-that-i-see-a-lot-on

http://chininini.tumblr.com/post/14013202731/some-misconceptions-about-the-usa-that-i-see-a-lot-on

Offline Vene

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Re: Misconceptions About America
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2012, 12:07:09 pm »
I do like this point:
6) America is big, as i’ve said. We are REALLY big. Our cultural identity is so fragmented that you can’t really treat us the same. The cultural difference between New York State and Mississippi is so vastly different that many people who move from one place to the other do experience culture shock. We have our own customs, dialects, food, politics, and racial make up. We all speak English, but our customs are very different. On a personal anecdote, I am proud to be a Chicagoian. I come from a huge city smack dab in the middle of the heartland. People from Chicago aren’t even proud to be from Illinois. Just Chicago. The cultural gab between say, middle Illinois and northern Illinois is pretty huge. I feel like I have nothing in common with people who are working the farms out there. In some cases, large states have a split identity. Some people define themselves by state, and others by city. We are all united in the end, but there is rivalry and we don’t always see eye to eye on things.
I'm not sure people overseas realize just how big of a country we are. Talking elsewhere with some Europeans, they speak as if they can go from NYC to LA is a single day. I'm not sure if we're really united in the end, but we pretend we are.

I looked at the rebuttals you posted, here are my thoughts, in order:
We are not poor. we have fourth best standard of living in the world the three above us have more capitalistic economies than we do. Yeah, 1% of our nation has a lot of our wealth, but guess how much wealth our country has? A MOTHERLOAD. We have the biggest GDP in the world and it’s not by a little i can tell you that. There is no such thing as isolation in the 21st century especially when we are as advanced as we are. No free time? At least your not a farmer. People have it so much worse out there.
The US has a remarkably high poverty rate for a 1st world nation, wages have stagnated over the last few decades and dropped in the last couple years, and we work more hours than people in other 1st world nations. We are not poor compared to developing and third world nations, but we're not either of those and shouldn't be compared to them.
From the same blogger:
Around fourth generation, people stop caring. I couldn’t tell you my ancestry before Jamestown (awww yeah, awesome little facts about Sarah) Except Italians. for some reaason they seem to thing
This is only true if you're white (and even then you list an exception, I love it when people refute their own arguments for me). [Note: the last fragment is not due to poor copying on my end, but poor writer on their end]

Same blogger again
I would want to move here. and that’s why people do. The world’s economy is tanking, not just ours. In fact, ours isn’t as bad as others. Well boo hoo college kids, get over it. at least you get to go to college.
Actually, the rest of the first world is well on their way to a recovery and have made far greater strides than us. And way to belittle the life-destroying debt the majority of college graduates accumulate.

Next response!
1) Many people who live in the American continent who are not necessarily from the US, take issue with “Americans” labeling themselves as such because it denotes a xenophobic superiority. By calling the country of the United States “America”, we are negating non-US citizens; “America” is their continent too. I’m not sure where you live, but a lot of people call it the United States within the country.
We should be able to decide our own identity, thank you very much. "United States" is not an identity, it is a description for our country. The United States of America is literally a collection of states which are united and geographically are located in America.
2) I take huge issue with your excuse of physical isolation as validation of cultural ignorance. Given that we live in the “internet age” (and I’m assuming a lot of you would be in school), it’s not impossible to educate yourself. I understand there are limited resources to access to education, but there are still alternative avenues for this.
...
6) Again, physical isolation does not validate cultural ignorance (or any other type of ignorance).
I'm not sure how you're really supposed to understand a culture if you never experience it. You can get some understanding, but you will never "get" it unless you live in it. So, yes, our physical boundaries really are a boundary (not to mention not all people have the luxury of dicking around online all day).

Same blogger:
3) I really think you’re underestimating how bad it is in some other countries. If you think it’s really bad here that “people should not move here”, then I encourage you to travel to countries where the GDP is around 800 dollars a year and life expectancy is around 47 years. Despite current economic situations, the US is one of the world’s richest nations. I’m not saying things can’t be horrible, but again this is very reminiscent of the whole “wah I’m American and everyone hates meh” hysterics.
This one is valid and it reminds me of when I worked at a produce company that hired nearly exclusively immigrants and refugees. It was not a good work environment, but it was better than what they would have had in their home country.

Final blogger:
we know more than you do about the wars that are promoted by your government, like the war in Iraque and now the controversy with Iran, we have daily news about world economics and politics, and most people my age can understand and maintain a conversation in your language.

you are ignorant because you want to.
We are spoonfed misinformation by our media, a media where even supposedly respectable sources refuse to state facts and instead just regurgitate opinions as if they are all equal. I also can't really fault people for not knowing a language other than English when that is the language our schools teach and they don't make more than a feeble effort to get students to gain fluency in any other language. Even when a secondary language is taught, it is fucking rare for the school to work towards the goal of raising students to the level of fluency. Is this the fault of the student? Is it the fault of somebody working a 50 hour/week job that s/he doesn't devote time to learning a language nobody else in the community uses? I'll also point out we are making progress in this area and there are states now mandating a non-English language be taught before a student can graduate high school.

But, and this goes back to geography, we are surrounded by English speakers and we can safely assume everybody we encounter will understand English. A Dane can't assume everybody will understand Danish just as a native of France can't assume everybody will understand French. In some respects the US must be compared to the EU, we are a union of one de facto language whereas they have many de facto languages. Their fluency is the product of necessity, us knowing more than English is a luxury.

So, all in all I think the original blog post has some good points (but the second responding blogger has a point when saying it sounds a lot like it is saying “hey you guys I’m a nice American why are you making fun of me’”). The responses you have posted attempting to refute it have a lot of vapid arguments that either reek of privilege (such as the one about it being the internet age) or don't understand how America works (such as the thing about the languages).

Offline TheUnknown

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Re: Misconceptions About America
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2012, 12:17:56 pm »
You can actually find more logical responses in the blog's notes, though I wouldn't blame you for not doing it, as there's over 2,000 notes. Most rebuttals have the decency to at least acknowledge that the OP has an overall good point, and sometimes even agrees with certain points, but they still found certain parts troubling.  The rebuttals I posted were the most negative, and didn't seem to have anything good to say about it, or agree with anything about it, and seemed the most nasty about it, particularly the first.

Offline DiscoBerry

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Re: Misconceptions About America
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2012, 03:18:48 pm »
We really aren't that privileged, however we are that dumb.  Don't believe me, do teach for america, or join the army, something where you meet a huge cross-section of Americas.  When you participate in such an activity you will learn just how common place shit like this is:
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 03:25:01 pm by DiscoBerry »

Offline Caitshidhe

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Re: Misconceptions About America
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2012, 03:41:27 pm »
You know, even with my level of cynicism and disdain for ignorance, I STILL don't know if it's entirely fair to say that Americans are overwhelmingly ignorant or if it only seems like we have more stupid people because there are so many people living here. With a population over 300 million, it's bound to seem like we have a disproportionate saturation of a lot of things based on sheer numbers.
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Offline Jodie

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Re: Misconceptions About America
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2012, 03:56:11 pm »
Don't forget that the most ignorant of people are often times the loudest and that is why they seem to get noticed more.
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Offline Bezron

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Re: Misconceptions About America
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2012, 04:43:27 pm »
I do like this point:
6) America is big, as i’ve said. We are REALLY big. Our cultural identity is so fragmented that you can’t really treat us the same. The cultural difference between New York State and Mississippi is so vastly different that many people who move from one place to the other do experience culture shock. We have our own customs, dialects, food, politics, and racial make up. We all speak English, but our customs are very different. On a personal anecdote, I am proud to be a Chicagoian. I come from a huge city smack dab in the middle of the heartland. People from Chicago aren’t even proud to be from Illinois. Just Chicago. The cultural gab between say, middle Illinois and northern Illinois is pretty huge. I feel like I have nothing in common with people who are working the farms out there. In some cases, large states have a split identity. Some people define themselves by state, and others by city. We are all united in the end, but there is rivalry and we don’t always see eye to eye on things.
I'm not sure people overseas realize just how big of a country we are. Talking elsewhere with some Europeans, they speak as if they can go from NYC to LA is a single day. I'm not sure if we're really united in the end, but we pretend we are.

Hell, in a lot of ways there are culture gaps between the Northside and the Southside in Chicago.  I lived on the Northside for a long time, and could never imagine living on the Southside at all.  I know NYC has the same issue with the boroughs.  People from Manhattan and people from Queens are vastly different (at least in their minds).

Offline ThunderWulf

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Re: Misconceptions About America
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2012, 07:12:39 pm »
Don't forget that the most ignorant of people are often times the loudest and that is why they seem to get noticed more.

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Offline Shane for Wax

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Re: Misconceptions About America
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2012, 07:37:42 pm »
I know that while I was Euro-tripping we got into some arguments with our friends in Belgium about US policies as well as our education system. They were of the mind we were totally backwards even though my education as well as my father's allowed us to communicate properly while we traveled Europe as well as know just where we wanted to go (Calais, for an example. I have had multiple people from the UK express surprise I even know what Calais is much less where it is or the historical significance is. They assumed my education was ass-backwards.).

Personally I think the stereotypes and everything else go both ways and neither party is innocent. To behave like Europeans are innocent in their misconceptions about America is dishonest as well as Americans with their misconceptions about the European countries.

As Jodie said, we have a vocal minority issue going on here. You will find a great many people who reads about American tourist ignorance on places like NotAlwaysRight who have to facepalm over it. Because the fact is that a good many of the things such tourists are ignorant about is willful ignorance rather than a failing on education.

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Offline clockworkgirl21

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Re: Misconceptions About America
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2012, 07:52:06 pm »
Quote
(Calais, for an example. I have had multiple people from the UK express surprise I even know what Calais is much less where it is or the historical significance is. They assumed my education was ass-backwards.).

It was a mostly English city in France that was a huge deal when it was lost to the French in the war when Elizabeth I took over. Right? That's the extent of my knowledge when it comes to Calais.

The problem with American schools is that in history classes, they don't teach much about other parts of the world. In 9th and 10th grade, my history classes were exactly the same. Revolutionary war, Civil War, WWI and WWII (only as far as America was concerned), the Cold War, and that's about it. It was just taking the same class over again. We didn't take World history until 11th grade, and even then it was extremely limited. We studied the French Revolution, England colonizing Africa (but not India), then the rest of the class was just the same WWI and WWII stuff we'd learned the last two years. People were amazed when I passed all the history classes with nearly 100%. It really wasn't a challenge at all. It was just the same shit thrown at us again and again.

Offline Shane for Wax

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Re: Misconceptions About America
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2012, 07:58:08 pm »
That's why I took world history and military history in my high school. Those two combined helped me. But I still don't enjoy it when people assume that American schools only focus on American side of history.

As for Calais, it was a port. A major one. It also overlooks the narrowest point between England and France. Nearby is the Chunnel.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 08:02:14 pm by Shane for Wax »

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Offline starseeker

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Re: Misconceptions About America
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2012, 09:20:19 pm »
Technically it was Mary I not Elizabeth I that lost it, but close enough. Major ferry port, lots of cheap booze shops and a massive shopping centre nearby selling even more tat to day trippers.

Offline Caitshidhe

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Re: Misconceptions About America
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2012, 09:39:41 pm »
All I know about Calais is that it's the closest part of France to England and that in the right conditions you can see the white cliffs of Dover from the beach. (Which I only know from reading since I've never been to Calais or anywhere else in France.)

I guess that means I'm a bass-ackward American moron, huh? ^_~
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Offline nickiknack

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Re: Misconceptions About America
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2012, 11:51:30 pm »
The probem with our schools is we prefer to take the "Teach the Test" route. It also doesn't help that not only No Child Left Behind has turned into a clusterfuck(no suprise there), and the best the opposition can come up with is Race to the Bottom Top, isn't that great of an idea.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 11:53:23 pm by nickiknack »

Offline TheL

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Re: Misconceptions About America
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2012, 09:21:22 am »
The probem with our schools is we prefer to take the "Teach the Test" route. It also doesn't help that not only No Child Left Behind has turned into a clusterfuck(no suprise there), and the best the opposition can come up with is Race to the Bottom Top, isn't that great of an idea.

This.  Standardized testing is the problem, not the solution.[/i]  Tying teacher pay or school funding to standardized test scores is a good way to butcher schools.
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