New Fort Hood Shooting

[RavynousHunter]

At least there's no chance of another gun control debate popping out of the woodwork from this.

Dude.  Priorities.

Yeaaaaaah, I gotta echo this one.  Kind of a dick move, dude.

For being glad that nobody on either side is going to be able to use the death of innocent people as a springboard for their political agenda?

Sure. Dick move.

Wording is important, ya know, as is timing.  It'd have probably been better put as "I'm thankful nobody seems to be politicizing this, we need to tend to the people first."  As it stands, it sounded like the potential for this to be politicized was the only thing about which you cared.  I and UP may have been wrong, but alas, text doesn't carry tone very well.

[I am lizard]

Why do you care, the gun grabbin' libetard commits pretty Much givin up.

[mellenORL]

They've updated it. Four people dead, not sure if that's including the gunman. At first I thought it was a copycat, but then I saw reports that he was being treated for PTSD.

I'm not sure I've heard of PTSD alone causing a killing spree, but I guess there's a first time for everything.

To be honest I'm not even phased anymore, like it's basically just another day another horrific violent mass shooting.

PTSD can manifest in many ways. In extremely severe cases it can cause hallucinatory flashbacks where the person suffering from the trauma actively thinks they are reliving it leading to extreme violence. It can also really screw with ones perceptions regarding paranoia and pattern recognition. PTSD is a seriously messed up condition.

That said, in many ways this is just another one of those another day, another mass shooting. Last I checked they happen at least once a month in America, but most are small scale enough to not really be newsworthy. This one probably only made it because of the previous mass shooting that happened there.

To me, the saddest thing here is how America has this huge Soldier hero worship mentality. Constantly going on about "supporting the troops" and "the fight for your freedom so you dont have to", but really they dont. Young men are sent to pointless wars to kill and die for no reason. These wars dont affect any Americans freedom in the slightest, least of all protecting it. Then these broken traumatized people are brought back where they are paraded around and worshiped like hero's, but denied the help they really need.

You want to know what would really "support the troops" and "protect America's freedom"? Not sending soldiers to die in pointless wars, and keeping them at home. Sorry for getting off topic like this, but the military culture of America gets to me sometimes.

PTSD can manifest in many ways. In extremely severe cases it can cause hallucinatory flashbacks where the person suffering from the trauma actively thinks they are reliving it leading to extreme violence. It can also really screw with ones perceptions regarding paranoia and pattern recognition. PTSD is a seriously messed up condition.

That said, in many ways this is just another one of those another day, another mass shooting. Last I checked they happen at least once a month in America, but most are small scale enough to not really be newsworthy. This one probably only made it because of the previous mass shooting that happened there.

To me, the saddest thing here is how America has this huge Soldier hero worship mentality. Constantly going on about "supporting the troops" and "the fight for your freedom so you dont have to", but really they dont. Young men are sent to pointless wars to kill and die for no reason. These wars dont affect any Americans freedom in the slightest, least of all protecting it. Then these broken traumatized people are brought back where they are paraded around and worshiped like hero's, but denied the help they really need.

You want to know what would really "support the troops" and "protect America's freedom"? Not sending soldiers to die in pointless wars, and keeping them at home. Sorry for getting off topic like this, but the military culture of America gets to me sometimes.

Sylvana, If I had a magic wand, I would grant you US citizenship (dual US/SA citizenship, technically), then clone you 10 million times over, and beg your clones to vote in every election at every level, township to national, and thank you all for helping to finally civilize this country to its true potential.

[Ultimate Paragon]

At least there's no chance of another gun control debate popping out of the woodwork from this.

Dude.  Priorities.

Yeaaaaaah, I gotta echo this one.  Kind of a dick move, dude.

For being glad that nobody on either side is going to be able to use the death of innocent people as a springboard for their political agenda?

Sure. Dick move.

Wording is important, ya know, as is timing.  It'd have probably been better put as "I'm thankful nobody seems to be politicizing this, we need to tend to the people first."  As it stands, it sounded like the potential for this to be politicized was the only thing about which you cared.  I and UP may have been wrong, but alas, text doesn't carry tone very well.

Or maybe if you'd talked about how tragic the event was, then added "on the bright side...", nobody would have a problem.

[Barbarella]

They've updated it. Four people dead, not sure if that's including the gunman. At first I thought it was a copycat, but then I saw reports that he was being treated for PTSD.

I'm not sure I've heard of PTSD alone causing a killing spree, but I guess there's a first time for everything.

To be honest I'm not even phased anymore, like it's basically just another day another horrific violent mass shooting.

PTSD can manifest in many ways. In extremely severe cases it can cause hallucinatory flashbacks where the person suffering from the trauma actively thinks they are reliving it leading to extreme violence. It can also really screw with ones perceptions regarding paranoia and pattern recognition. PTSD is a seriously messed up condition.

That said, in many ways this is just another one of those another day, another mass shooting. Last I checked they happen at least once a month in America, but most are small scale enough to not really be newsworthy. This one probably only made it because of the previous mass shooting that happened there.

To me, the saddest thing here is how America has this huge Soldier hero worship mentality. Constantly going on about "supporting the troops" and "the fight for your freedom so you dont have to", but really they dont. Young men are sent to pointless wars to kill and die for no reason. These wars dont affect any Americans freedom in the slightest, least of all protecting it. Then these broken traumatized people are brought back where they are paraded around and worshiped like hero's, but denied the help they really need.

You want to know what would really "support the troops" and "protect America's freedom"? Not sending soldiers to die in pointless wars, and keeping them at home. Sorry for getting off topic like this, but the military culture of America gets to me sometimes.

I feel the same. Maybe there should be a boycott of the military. Convince folks not to join. Improbable, yes but *sigh*, it's a thought.

We need a Peace culture not a war culture. If Norway, once a land of "Proud Warrior Race Guys" can become a "Liberal Peacenik" Land. Why can't we?

Hopefully, if the Dems take the majority this fall, it MIGHT be a start, or at least get a foot in the door.

[RavynousHunter]

Alas, demilitarization of the US would take a very, VERY long time; our defense budget isn't just R&D, we have a massive standing army.  Plus, just because we demilitarize doesn't mean other potentially hostile nations would follow suit, and it would leave us almost totally defenseless.  In short, it'd paint a huge target on our backs.  We may not have as many enemies as people like Bill-O the Clown would have you believe, but we do have people that are none too friendly towards us and would enjoy being able to actually hit us.

[Ultimate Paragon]

They've updated it. Four people dead, not sure if that's including the gunman. At first I thought it was a copycat, but then I saw reports that he was being treated for PTSD.

I'm not sure I've heard of PTSD alone causing a killing spree, but I guess there's a first time for everything.

To be honest I'm not even phased anymore, like it's basically just another day another horrific violent mass shooting.

PTSD can manifest in many ways. In extremely severe cases it can cause hallucinatory flashbacks where the person suffering from the trauma actively thinks they are reliving it leading to extreme violence. It can also really screw with ones perceptions regarding paranoia and pattern recognition. PTSD is a seriously messed up condition.

That said, in many ways this is just another one of those another day, another mass shooting. Last I checked they happen at least once a month in America, but most are small scale enough to not really be newsworthy. This one probably only made it because of the previous mass shooting that happened there.

To me, the saddest thing here is how America has this huge Soldier hero worship mentality. Constantly going on about "supporting the troops" and "the fight for your freedom so you dont have to", but really they dont. Young men are sent to pointless wars to kill and die for no reason. These wars dont affect any Americans freedom in the slightest, least of all protecting it. Then these broken traumatized people are brought back where they are paraded around and worshiped like hero's, but denied the help they really need.

You want to know what would really "support the troops" and "protect America's freedom"? Not sending soldiers to die in pointless wars, and keeping them at home. Sorry for getting off topic like this, but the military culture of America gets to me sometimes.

I feel the same. Maybe there should be a boycott of the military. Convince folks not to join. Improbable, yes but *sigh*, it's a thought.

We need a Peace culture not a war culture. If Norway, once a land of "Proud Warrior Race Guys" can become a "Liberal Peacenik" Land. Why can't we?

Hopefully, if the Dems take the majority this fall, it MIGHT be a start, or at least get a foot in the door.

The problem is that this is the price of being a superpower.  I don't like war, but I believe we should be willing to prosecute it whenever necessary.  The reason Norway has gone peaceful is simple: it can afford to be.  They have powerful friends willing to come to their defense.  I appreciate your idealism.  I really do.  Unfortunately, it just doesn't mesh with reality.

Alas, demilitarization of the US would take a very, VERY long time; our defense budget isn't just R&D, we have a massive standing army.  Plus, just because we demilitarize doesn't mean other potentially hostile nations would follow suit, and it would leave us almost totally defenseless.  In short, it'd paint a huge target on our backs.  We may not have as many enemies as people like Bill-O the Clown would have you believe, but we do have people that are none too friendly towards us and would enjoy being able to actually hit us.

And that's the other reason.

[RavynousHunter]

Aye, it kinda hits Lord British Postulate territory, if something that seems unkillable suddenly becomes weakened, you can bet someone is gonna try to have a go at striking at 'em.

[Barbarella]

Well, I kind of said the wrong stuff again. Boycotting/not joining the military would be dumb. I was mainly talking about culture, as in the "Gung-Ho Action Guy Blam Blam Bang Boom Shoot-Em-Up YEEEEHAH!" culture of the USA....one that fetishizes violence & war rather than just see it as a last-resort necessary evil. While I am mostly a flower-power person, I am nonetheless a realist. The problem isn't so much war in general, it's that we wage war constantly for every reason. I believe in the concept of "Just War". One should seek out peaceful & diplomatic means at all costs and try to address the root causes of unrest first. But if nothing works, there's no choice but to fight.

[I am lizard]

Well, I kind of said the wrong stuff again. Boycotting/not joining the military would be dumb. I was mainly talking about culture, as in the "Gung-Ho Action Guy Blam Blam Bang Boom Shoot-Em-Up YEEEEHAH!" culture of the USA....one that fetishizes violence & war rather than just see it as a last-resort necessary evil. While I am mostly a flower-power person, I am nonetheless a realist. The problem isn't so much war in general, it's that we wage war constantly for every reason. I believe in the concept of "Just War". One should seek out peaceful & diplomatic means at all costs and try to address the root causes of unrest first. But if nothing works, there's no choice but to fight.

Also, we need to stop seeing war as "go in, take things over". The reason I think the two invasions were so bad was because we never stopped and tried to map out an effective way to stabilize the region.

You'd think we would have learned from before that the Middle East wasn't a hive mind and that there were actually tons of different groups and ideologies all with radically different motives, but naw, Ac130s and m1 Abrams are awesome.
FREEEEEDOM!!!!

[chitoryu12]

Well, I kind of said the wrong stuff again. Boycotting/not joining the military would be dumb. I was mainly talking about culture, as in the "Gung-Ho Action Guy Blam Blam Bang Boom Shoot-Em-Up YEEEEHAH!" culture of the USA....one that fetishizes violence & war rather than just see it as a last-resort necessary evil. While I am mostly a flower-power person, I am nonetheless a realist. The problem isn't so much war in general, it's that we wage war constantly for every reason. I believe in the concept of "Just War". One should seek out peaceful & diplomatic means at all costs and try to address the root causes of unrest first. But if nothing works, there's no choice but to fight.

Also, we need to stop seeing war as "go in, take things over". The reason I think the two invasions were so bad was because we never stopped and tried to map out an effective way to stabilize the region.

You'd think we would have learned from before that the Middle East wasn't a hive mind and that there were actually tons of different groups and ideologies all with radically different motives, but naw, Ac130s and m1 Abrams are awesome.
FREEEEEDOM!!!!

The other problem is how unnecessary and damaging the wars were in the first place. In response to a terrorist attack, we invaded two countries (one of which had rather questionable connection to it at best) and actually toppled the government of one. Both of these things are rarely good for the nation, no matter how much you plan it out. For all our successful killings of terrorist leaders and disbanding of cells, we've encouraged the view of America that led to people becoming radical terrorists trying to blow up innocent American civilians in the first place.

It was basically the equivalent of getting slapped in the back of the head by a bully at school and reacting by screaming in rage and attacking a bunch of random people with a baseball bat.

[Ultimate Paragon]

Well, I kind of said the wrong stuff again. Boycotting/not joining the military would be dumb. I was mainly talking about culture, as in the "Gung-Ho Action Guy Blam Blam Bang Boom Shoot-Em-Up YEEEEHAH!" culture of the USA....one that fetishizes violence & war rather than just see it as a last-resort necessary evil. While I am mostly a flower-power person, I am nonetheless a realist. The problem isn't so much war in general, it's that we wage war constantly for every reason. I believe in the concept of "Just War". One should seek out peaceful & diplomatic means at all costs and try to address the root causes of unrest first. But if nothing works, there's no choice but to fight.

Also, we need to stop seeing war as "go in, take things over". The reason I think the two invasions were so bad was because we never stopped and tried to map out an effective way to stabilize the region.

You'd think we would have learned from before that the Middle East wasn't a hive mind and that there were actually tons of different groups and ideologies all with radically different motives, but naw, Ac130s and m1 Abrams are awesome.
FREEEEEDOM!!!!

The other problem is how unnecessary and damaging the wars were in the first place. In response to a terrorist attack, we invaded two countries (one of which had rather questionable connection to it at best) and actually toppled the government of one. Both of these things are rarely good for the nation, no matter how much you plan it out. For all our successful killings of terrorist leaders and disbanding of cells, we've encouraged the view of America that led to people becoming radical terrorists trying to blow up innocent American civilians in the first place.

It was basically the equivalent of getting slapped in the back of the head by a bully at school and reacting by screaming in rage and attacking a bunch of random people with a baseball bat.

Well, the question is, what alternative did we have?  I mean, I understand where you're coming from about Iraq, but Afghanistan?

[Sigmaleph]

Well, the question is, what alternative did we have?  I mean, I understand where you're coming from about Iraq, but Afghanistan?

Why was not going to war not an alternative?

That's not rhetorical, I'm genuinely asking.

[Ultimate Paragon]

Well, the question is, what alternative did we have?  I mean, I understand where you're coming from about Iraq, but Afghanistan?

Why was not going to war not an alternative?

That's not rhetorical, I'm genuinely asking.

Because that would have shown the world that they could do whatever they wanted to us, and we would just take it.

[chitoryu12]

Well, the question is, what alternative did we have?  I mean, I understand where you're coming from about Iraq, but Afghanistan?

Why was not going to war not an alternative?

That's not rhetorical, I'm genuinely asking.

Because that would have shown the world that they could do whatever they wanted to us, and we would just take it.

Who is "they"? The Afghan government didn't attack the United States. Even if violent retaliation against the terrorists was appropriate, why was sending an army to invade the country the way to do so?