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Author Topic: The bad side of unions  (Read 2577 times)

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Offline dpareja

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The bad side of unions
« on: June 19, 2013, 02:15:40 pm »
So normally I'm all for unions: they allow workers a strong voice in negotiating employment conditions and act as a countervailing force against businesses to keep labour laws in place. But...

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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/06/18/bc-teacher-duct-tape.html

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The B.C. Teacher Regulation Branch has reprimanded a Vancouver teacher after she duct-taped her students' mouths in an effort to keep them quiet.

Margo Fowler, a math teacher at Sir Winston Churchill Secondary School, is rated as a top-notch educator on the popular website RateMyTeachers.com, where students describe her as "helpful," "entertaining" and "Just. Plain. Awesome."

But documents posted on the Teacher Regulation Branch's website say Fowler was involved in three separate incidents where she broke professional standards by duct-taping the mouths of her students.

The BC teachers' union is pretty strong. I don't care how good a teacher this person is...

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The branch has issued Fowler a reprimand citing professional misconduct.

She needs more than just a reprimand for professional misconduct.
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: The bad side of unions
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2013, 03:38:08 pm »
...this doesn't seem to be connected to unions at all. What she did seems more like a joke than anything serious, really.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: The bad side of unions
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2013, 04:11:49 pm »
Quote from: Sigmaleph on June 19, 2013, 03:38:08 pm
...this doesn't seem to be connected to unions at all. What she did seems more like a joke than anything serious, really.

If it weren't for the BCTF, I'm pretty sure she would have received more than a reprimand.
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Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Old Viking

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Re: The bad side of unions
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2013, 04:12:49 pm »
I don't understand.  What did she do that was wrong?
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Re: The bad side of unions
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2013, 04:35:54 pm »
Put duct tape on your lips and then ask again what she did wrong.
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: The bad side of unions
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2013, 05:14:38 pm »
Quote from: dpareja on June 19, 2013, 04:11:49 pm
Quote from: Sigmaleph on June 19, 2013, 03:38:08 pm
...this doesn't seem to be connected to unions at all. What she did seems more like a joke than anything serious, really.

If it weren't for the BCTF, I'm pretty sure she would have received more than a reprimand.


Why? I'm not saying it's not, I know nothing about Canadian teacher unions, but what reasons do you have to believe this is a case of unions unfairly exercising power and not a minor incident that deserved a minor reprimand?
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Offline dpareja

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Re: The bad side of unions
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2013, 05:26:50 pm »
Quote from: Sigmaleph on June 19, 2013, 05:14:38 pm
Quote from: dpareja on June 19, 2013, 04:11:49 pm
Quote from: Sigmaleph on June 19, 2013, 03:38:08 pm
...this doesn't seem to be connected to unions at all. What she did seems more like a joke than anything serious, really.

If it weren't for the BCTF, I'm pretty sure she would have received more than a reprimand.


Why? I'm not saying it's not, I know nothing about Canadian teacher unions, but what reasons do you have to believe this is a case of unions unfairly exercising power and not a minor incident that deserved a minor reprimand?

Long experience of seeing unionized employees get away with shit like this with basically no repercussions.
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Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline ironbite

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Re: The bad side of unions
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2013, 08:28:00 pm »
Uh...there was repercussions.  Not the one you'd have like to see but there were.

Ironbite-still not sure how this makes some unions as bad.
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Offline The Illusive Man

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Re: The bad side of unions
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2013, 02:29:12 am »
Unions are legally bound by contract to defend and assign representation to members, even in the worst case scenarios. This is not a negative aspect in and of itself.
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: The bad side of unions
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2013, 05:02:11 am »
The concept of unionism is imperfect, as with all human invention. That doesn't mean it should not exist, which is the argument usually made.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: The bad side of unions
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2013, 06:18:12 am »
Unions are there to protect their members, this does not guarantee that their members will be angels.

Yeah, duct taping a kids mouth is completely over the line but I fail to see how the union screwed up.
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: The bad side of unions
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2013, 06:47:54 am »
Union is doing its job. Kinda like a defense attorney, actually.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: The bad side of unions
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2013, 10:20:46 am »
He wants the union to get the teacher fired for what the teacher did.

Ironbite-and he's upset they didn't.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: The bad side of unions
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2013, 10:25:29 am »
Quote from: ironbite on June 20, 2013, 10:20:46 am
He wants the union to get the teacher fired for what the teacher did.

Ironbite-and he's upset they didn't.

I accept that the fact of the union's existence means that the teacher only got a reprimand rather than a harsher punishment.

I am, by and large, pro-union.
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Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline PosthumanHeresy

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Re: The bad side of unions
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2013, 09:20:50 am »
Meeeh. I see nothing wrong here. I wish it would happen more in schools in America. I know a guy named Logan who so needed it.
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