Author Topic: A is for asshole  (Read 9744 times)

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Offline The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist

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Re: A is for asshole
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2013, 08:42:03 pm »
^^ Yeah, that's mostly what I was referring to. In practice, the university is pretty much secular in most aspects (again, based on what I can find), but it also hasn't officially severed ties with the church.
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Offline Leafy

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Re: A is for asshole
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2013, 09:44:23 pm »
I can't believe no one has ever complained before.

Offline LeTipex

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Re: A is for asshole
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2013, 05:24:06 am »
I can't believe no one has ever complained before.
I can. Having seen this kind of thing before, I can tell you that you can have people that enjoy chanting an offensive song without actually caring about the meaning of the song. I don't think that all those who chant that are potential rapists (and I'm pretty sure a fair part would be horrified once confronted to rape), they just like the song because it's offensive, and because offensive humour is pleasing to them.

In my university, we had a song called "Burn the redheads" that veered into very atrocious stuff (murder, but also rape and possibly genocide). My girlfriend at the time was a redhead who found it hillarious. I think it's the same kind of thing.

Now, I'm not saying it's not offensive (as I said, that the point! Not underage rape, but underage rape being offensive), or that people shouldn't actually react. But... it's certainly not as horrible as you'd think. The best way to tackle the issue would be to make sure that everybody understand what they're singing and what it really means. Like any rape joke, you'll have people saying it can never be funny, some people saying that everything can be funny when done right, and some saying that it's not really a joke but real, honest-to-god rape advocacy.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 05:27:45 am by LeTipex »

Offline Yla

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Re: A is for asshole
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2013, 07:16:46 am »
I can't believe no one has ever complained before.
I can. Having seen this kind of thing before, I can tell you that you can have people that enjoy chanting an offensive song without actually caring about the meaning of the song. I don't think that all those who chant that are potential rapists (and I'm pretty sure a fair part would be horrified once confronted to rape), they just like the song because it's offensive, and because offensive humour is pleasing to them.

In my university, we had a song called "Burn the redheads" that veered into very atrocious stuff (murder, but also rape and possibly genocide). My girlfriend at the time was a redhead who found it hillarious. I think it's the same kind of thing.

Now, I'm not saying it's not offensive (as I said, that the point! Not underage rape, but underage rape being offensive), or that people shouldn't actually react. But... it's certainly not as horrible as you'd think. The best way to tackle the issue would be to make sure that everybody understand what they're singing and what it really means. Like any rape joke, you'll have people saying it can never be funny, some people saying that everything can be funny when done right, and some saying that it's not really a joke but real, honest-to-god rape advocacy.
What he said.

There is a folk song 'Einst ging ich am Ufer der Donau entlang' (short version: guy walks along the Danube, finds a sleeping girl, rapes her, she wakes up and complains, he tells her shut up). It's part of many songbooks for campfires and the like. I'm slightly horrified by it and could never sing it, but I've seen even girls sing along without a care.
That said, I've stopped trying to anticipate what people around here want a while ago, I've found it makes things smoother.
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Offline Old Viking

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Re: A is for asshole
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2013, 05:16:19 pm »
Chill!  It's a college, for crissake!  That's where this sort of thing happens.  It's exhausting -- and fruitless -- to become outraged every time something thoughtless or stupid occurs.  Especially when they happen in an environment in which thoughtless and stupid are considered admirable characteristics.
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Re: A is for asshole
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2013, 06:27:53 pm »
Chill!  It's a college, for crissake!  That's where this sort of thing happens.

This sounds suspiciously like "Boys will be boys" logic.
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Re: A is for asshole
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2013, 07:37:57 pm »
Chill!  It's a college, for crissake!  That's where this sort of thing happens.  It's exhausting -- and fruitless -- to become outraged every time something thoughtless or stupid occurs.  Especially when they happen in an environment in which thoughtless and stupid are considered admirable characteristics.
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Re: A is for asshole
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2013, 08:06:44 pm »
Chill!  It's a college, for crissake!  That's where this sort of thing happens.

This sounds suspiciously like "Boys will be boys" logic.

It does indeed.

Offline LeTipex

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Re: A is for asshole
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2013, 11:16:15 pm »
Chill!  It's a college, for crissake!  That's where this sort of thing happens.

This sounds suspiciously like "Boys will be boys" logic.

It does indeed.

Except that "Boys will be boys" is usually used to handwave away actual actions (rape, molestations, fistfights, etc...), while this is nothing more than a stupid joke.

You can find it stupid, offensive and juvenile, but one should not treat it as one would actual rape advocacy. Saying "it's college" only means that yeah, you have place where being stupid, juvenile and offensive shouldn't be treated that harshly (compared to, say, someone singing that kind of song in a workplace environment, or in front of a primary school).
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 11:41:16 pm by LeTipex »

Offline Shane for Wax

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Re: A is for asshole
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2013, 11:21:15 pm »
It's still rape culture and it still feeds into it, regardless of whether nobody actually followed the chant.

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Offline LeTipex

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Re: A is for asshole
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2013, 11:29:56 pm »
It's still rape culture and it still feeds into it, regardless of whether nobody actually followed the chant.
As I said, it's a rape joke. Your opinion on rape jokes vis-a-vis rape culture will color your thoughts on that.

I'm still not sure that saying
That's advocating rape of minors.
is a mesured response.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 11:41:39 pm by LeTipex »

Offline Shane for Wax

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Re: A is for asshole
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2013, 12:03:16 am »
Believe as you will, I suppose.

I don't see anything about that sentence that makes it seem like I was hysterical or anything that would remove me from being measured and calm.

&
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Offline LeTipex

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Re: A is for asshole
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2013, 12:08:46 am »
Fair enough.  :)

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Re: A is for asshole
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2013, 12:10:23 am »
It's still rape culture and it still feeds into it, regardless of whether nobody actually followed the chant.
As I said, it's a rape joke. Your opinion on rape jokes vis-a-vis rape culture will color your thoughts on that.

Yes, because as we all know, rape jokes are just spiffy.  Guess I can go ahead and tell various off-colour jokes about them thievin darkies now, can't I?
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Offline LeTipex

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Re: A is for asshole
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2013, 12:27:06 am »
It's still rape culture and it still feeds into it, regardless of whether nobody actually followed the chant.
As I said, it's a rape joke. Your opinion on rape jokes vis-a-vis rape culture will color your thoughts on that.

Yes, because as we all know, rape jokes are just spiffy.  Guess I can go ahead and tell various off-colour jokes about them thievin darkies now, can't I?
The subject of offensive jokes is a sitcky and potentially explosive one.

For the record, I don't think it's possible to say "No one should ever joke about X ever!", X being anything from rape, racism, genocide or death. A good joke can make you laugh because it's offensive, not in spite of it. Of course, that does mean that you have to be very careful. Every rape joke isn't a good one, and some of them are cheap offensive drivel that should make people react appropriately (by which I mean saying "that's not funny, and you're a horrible person if you think it is.")

But while I agree that there is such a thing as rape culture, I still don't believe humour is the thing that creates or even reinforces it. Humour is also a powerful way to deal with the misery of the world, and offensive jokes, especially among close friends, can be a refreshing way to let your hair down, so to speak.

It's a complex issue, and saying "Rape is something one should never ever joke about! Ever!" is, I feel, not the answer.

All this being said, I'm a rape victim. I understand how horrible an experience it can be, and joking about it has been a way to get over it for me. Banning every mention of rape in jokes would be counter-productive. Once you make a subject taboo, you give it even more power to haunt you.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 12:52:01 am by LeTipex »