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Community => Society and History => Topic started by: Tolpuddle Martyr on October 02, 2017, 05:47:35 am

Title: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on October 02, 2017, 05:47:35 am
This (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2017/oct/02/las-vegas-two-dead-in-mandalay-bay-casino-shooting-latest-updates) fucking awful thing just happened.

Quote
  • More than 20 people have been killed and well in excess of 100 were injured when a “lone wolf” gunman fired multiple shots at the Route 91 Harvest country music festival from a hotel overlooking the event. Two of those killed were off-duty police officers.
  • The only suspect, whose motives are unknown, was killed by police. A Swat team used a controlled explosion to enter his hotel room on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay hotel and casino.
  • Police are searching for the suspect’s companion, Marilou Danley. She is wanted for questioning and is described as a person of interest.
  • Jason Aldean, the country music star who was performing when the shooting took place, described the scene as “beyond horrific”. He said he and his crew were safe, but added: “It hurts my heart that this would happen to anyone who was just coming out to enjoy what should have been a fun night.”
  • Concertgoers reported seeing muzzle flashes from the upper floors of the Mandalay Bay hotel and several videos of the aftermath show hundreds of people fleeing in panic as the gunfire continued. Around 40,000 people were attending the festival.
  • Some flights have resumed at the city’s McCarran International airport after all planes were temporarily grounded on Sunday evening
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: ironbite on October 02, 2017, 09:41:52 am
As of today, 50 people dead, 200+ injured, suspect is dead, 64 years old, and most importantly, white.

Ironbite-also this caused the Orange Piss Pot to actually be human so that's a plus.
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: Eiki-mun on October 02, 2017, 01:46:58 pm
It's probably terrible of me to think, but I'll admit that my first thought upon hearing this was "eh, this is America, these things happen".
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on October 02, 2017, 01:58:54 pm
I've never in my life been surprised to hear of a mass shooting. Even the one that was within 20 miles of me several years ago only made me raise an eyebrow.

It's what happens when you live in a country of gun nuts I guess.

I'd say my thoughts, good feelings, and all of that go to the victims but it doesn't make any difference.
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: Askold on October 02, 2017, 02:31:57 pm
And now Alex Jones and others are claiming that this was a false flag attack...
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: Lana Reverse on October 02, 2017, 02:39:07 pm
And now Alex Jones and others are claiming that this was a false flag attack...

Of course they are.
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: dpareja on October 02, 2017, 03:28:02 pm
I just posted a rant about this on another forum (with far more right-wingers, so I expect significant disagreement), so I'm just going to repost it here...

At this point, it seems like the US treats mass shootings (Sandy Hook, Pulse, now Vegas...) as natural disasters.

When, of course, they're anything but.

Natural disasters happen. Sure, climate change is making some of them worse (hurricanes especially), but ultimately it's nature that's in charge of this place, and we're interlopers.

But the US has had two "worst shootings in US history" in two years now--Pulse and now Vegas. If the Vegas death toll doesn't ultimately exceed that of Breivik's murderous rampage, I don't think it'll be long before the US has a shooting topping that one.

But when these things are brought up, those who advocate for tighter gun regulations are told to shut up and not politicize the tragedy. IT'S NOT FUCKING POLITICAL ANY MORE. THESE ARE REAL LIVING, BREATHING, CONTRIBUTING PEOPLE DYING, AND IT CAN HAPPEN ANYWHERE IN YOUR COUNTRY AT ANY TIME.

Even though a gigantic proportion of the public is in favour of tighter regulations (especially in the wake of these slaughters), Congress can't even pass the weakest bills. Even Heller and its ilk allow for some regulation--and for myself, I think those decisions were horrendous and I think the Second Amendment needs to hit the dustbin of history where it belongs (especially since the original purposes of it--precluding the need for a federal standing army and keeping slaves from escaping--are no longer relevant, since official slavery is gone and the federal government, for better or worse, maintains a standing army)--but Congress can't even pass what those decisions allow, never mind find the political balls to go further.

These are not natural disasters. These are entirely preventable events, and the fact that you can't do anything about them and just treat them as natural disasters is just one more reason why (other) developed countries look at the US and wish dearly that it weren't also considered a developed country.
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: Cloud3514 on October 02, 2017, 04:49:11 pm
Reminder: After the Pulse shooting, Chris Murphy had to fillibuster for 15 hours to get the Republicans in Congress to even agree to hold a vote in response to what was then the worst mass shooting in American history. And, of course, nothing came of it.
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: dpareja on October 02, 2017, 05:37:31 pm
And after Sandy Hook, Mitch McConnell bragged on Twitter about blocking (via the "virtual filibuster" ie the 60-vote threshold) gun regulations that an overwhelming majority of Americans supported. (It had majority support in the Senate, but didn't get to 60.)
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on October 02, 2017, 05:42:13 pm
It's actually one of the things about America that looks the weirdest to foreign eyes. In Australia we also have street gangs, they get into large scuffles and yes you can get serious injuries and even deaths from street brawling but they aren't confused youngsters fucking about with pistols. Yes criminals still get access to guns but when local Hells Angel thug Christopher Hudson shot three  (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/true-crime-scene/christopher-wayne-hudson-fuelled-by-drugs-anger-before-shooting-three-in-melbourne-cbd-rampage-strippers-say/news-story/7f23e777e8684a49ee6bb0509718de85) he had his gang tattoos removed by an oxy torch for getting his homies into trouble (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/tattoo-removed-with-welding-torch/news-story/cca59df73faaa8f8efcf04db6ed94c37). Yes, in Australia we also have unstable loners who plan mass shootings (http://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2017/08/25/incel-logic-australian-neo-nazi-planned-mass-shooting-if-i-dont-get-laid-soon/) but they have to rely on home made weapons that are just as likely to explode in your hand (http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/im-fully-prepared-to-shoot-cops-messages-of-white-supremacist-revealed-20170825-gy4e1r.html).

Yes I know Australia is vastly different in terms in it's arrangement between the federal government and the states and it's entire legal framework and constitution, but the fact remains that it's ban on semi automatic weapons, brought in by a right wing Prime Minister who was the author of Australia's draconian asylum seeker policy kind of worked. (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/23/australias-gun-laws-stopped-mass-shootings-and-reduced-homicides-study-finds)

TL/DR we Aussies have exactly the same pimply faced gangsters, older saltier gangsters, butthurt abusive husbands, confused kids, Nazis and lonely weirdos that you guys do but after Howard and his ban on semi autos they've statistically done less damage to everybody else here.
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: dpareja on October 02, 2017, 07:59:46 pm
http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/massacre-las-vegas-1.4316852

Quote
As President Donald Trump prepared to address Americans after the massacre/horrific carnage/charnel house/slaughter/mass murder (pick an overused term) in Las Vegas, mainstream cable TV anchors and reporters — using that somber, pained tone they all adopt on such occasions — seemed united on one subject: this is not a time for a "political conversation."

"Many people," observed CNN's John King in a particularly imbecilic TV moment, "have lost their ability to set politics aside and listen to the president and just be Americans."

Yes, indeed, chirped anchor Poppy Harlow, somberly. This is the time for the president to be the "comforter-in-chief." Everybody nodded.

Well, one suspects that if the shooter's name had been Mohammed, it would have been a different tune.
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on October 02, 2017, 09:13:54 pm
If as a nation you have to rely on Donald fucking Trump to be a "comforter" in any capacity you are in dire straits indeed!
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: Art Vandelay on October 02, 2017, 11:33:35 pm
"Comforter-in-chief". And Trump supporters call everyone else whiny puss bags.
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: Cloud3514 on October 02, 2017, 11:34:17 pm
"Don't politicize!" Tell that to the assholes trying to paint the shooter as a liberal or a communist with zero evidence. That's politicizing. We're not politicizing. Saying we're fucking sick of these incidents and the useless platitudes that always follows should be common sense.
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: dpareja on October 02, 2017, 11:36:03 pm
"Don't politicize!" Tell that to the assholes trying to paint the shooter as a liberal or a communist with zero evidence. That's politicizing. We're not politicizing. Saying we're fucking sick of these incidents and the useless platitudes that always follows should be common sense.

Yeah, but they're paid off by the NRA (which is of course just a front group for gun manufacturers) to ensure nothing happens.

If you want real change on gun regulations, you have to GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT GET THE MONEY OUT
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: Cloud3514 on October 02, 2017, 11:39:26 pm
And to get the money out, we need to vote out the corrupt politicians who happily take the NRA's bribery. Which, speaking as a resident of Wisconsin, the state with such bad voter suppression that our corrupt governor managed to win reelection after a recall, is pretty fucking hard.
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: dpareja on October 02, 2017, 11:46:41 pm
And to get the money out, we need to vote out the corrupt politicians who happily take the NRA's bribery. Which, speaking as a resident of Wisconsin, the state with such bad voter suppression that our corrupt governor managed to with reelection after a recall, is pretty fucking hard.

Article V provides for constitutional conventions.
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on October 03, 2017, 02:22:24 am
In other news about terrible people today, Reddit's incels are celebrating the shooting (http://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2017/10/02/reddit-incels-celebrate-deaths-of-normies-in-las-vegas-mass-shooting/).
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: dpareja on October 03, 2017, 12:33:57 pm
http://fox4kc.com/2017/10/01/lawrence-community-shaken-after-5-people-shot-on-massachusetts-street/

A shooting that would be headline news in just about any (other) developed country is getting maybe a bit of local coverage in the US.
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: ironbite on October 03, 2017, 02:03:12 pm
In other news about terrible people today, Reddit's incels are celebrating the shooting (http://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2017/10/02/reddit-incels-celebrate-deaths-of-normies-in-las-vegas-mass-shooting/).

....god they're horrible people.
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: dpareja on October 03, 2017, 04:55:08 pm
https://theintercept.com/2017/10/02/las-vegas-shooting-gofundme-health-care/

How are the victims of the Vegas massacre trying to avoid medical bankruptcy?

GoFundMe.

And this in the state where the governor vetoed a bill that would have turned Medicaid into a public option.

Fuck you people need single-payer.

EDIT:

Sobering thought.

There was a "terrorist attack" in Edmonton this weekend where a guy stabbed a cop, stole a truck, and ran over a few people downtown. Five people were wounded. Nobody died.

More Canadians died in the Vegas massacre than in this attack in Edmonton.
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: Cloud3514 on October 03, 2017, 10:35:19 pm
Arsenal of 42 guns that was used to shoot nearly 600 people: a right.

Not going completely bankrupt as a result of being shot by someone with an arsenal of 42 guns: a privilege.
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: dpareja on October 03, 2017, 11:57:31 pm
Arsenal of 42 guns that was used to shoot nearly 600 people: a right.

Not going completely bankrupt as a result of being shot by someone with an arsenal of 42 guns: a privilege.

'MURICA!
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: Cloud3514 on October 04, 2017, 01:03:56 am
Also, they found more guns in a third location. The count is at 49 guns last I heard.
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: dpareja on October 04, 2017, 01:26:23 am
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/abdulahi-hasan-sharif-attack-police-jasper-1.4319245

Number of people wounded in Edmonton (by someone the US ordered deported to Somalia, but he fled here before they could send him there): 5

Number of Canadians dead in Vegas: 4.

Fuck there are times I hate being right next door to your fucked up shithole of a country.

(Though right now most of those times involve Donald Trump provoking Kim Jong-un into firing nuclear missiles, since I live on the west coast and don't trust North Korea's aim... never mind where the fallout might drift.)
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: Askold on October 04, 2017, 01:40:15 am
https://theguardiansofdemocracy.com/gop-senator-vegas-shooting-victims-people-take-precautions-get-small-avoid-gunfire/

And the victim blaming begins.

Quote from: Sen. John Thune (R-SD)
But I think people are going to have to take steps in their own lives to take precautions to protect themselves and in situations like that, you know, try to stay safe. As somebody said: get small,

Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: dpareja on October 04, 2017, 01:44:49 am
Anything to avoid tackling the real issues.

Sen. Thune is a fucking disgusting maggot. (And disturbingly popular (https://morningconsult.com/july-2017-senator-rankings/) with his electorate.)
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: ironbite on October 04, 2017, 10:56:14 am
The NRA owns the Republican party

Ironbite-that's my viewpoint.
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: dpareja on October 06, 2017, 02:58:28 am
http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/gun-control-las-vegas-1.4330409

Quote
In any case, lawmakers cannot allow this tragedy, which was the 273rd of its kind in 275 days, to make Americans lose sight of what is important here: that is, the freedom to amass a stockpile of weapons, ammunition and modifiers that can enable a single person to wound hundreds and kill dozens in a matter of minutes.

Take that freedom away, and the U.S. suddenly devolves into Japan, or Australia, or some other quasi-socialist country where people aren't gunned down in movie theatres, high schools, on live TV, in nightclubs and in kindergarten classrooms. What would be left of America then? You might as well take away apple pie, Sunday afternoon football (I mean the good kind of football, back before those whiners started kneeling during the national anthem) and the right to skin a deer on the side of the interstate. Like a man.

Liberals forever rattle on about gun control, pushing radical ideas such as prohibiting mentally unstable people from purchasing firearms, or requiring guns to be safely stored so that toddlers stop shooting themselves and others, or banning people from carrying guns into daycares and airports. That is nonsense. Americans need more guns, not fewer.

Indeed, the obvious solution to a man with an arsenal of weapons shooting down from the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino is a sea of 22,000 equally armed concertgoers below, panicked and shooting wildly in the direction of the 43-storey hotel. Perhaps that would have saved some lives. Sadly, we will never know.
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: Lana Reverse on October 09, 2017, 12:11:50 pm
Santorum just went back to the old chestnut of "violent entertainment".

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/rick-santorum-on-gun-control-debate-why-arent-we-going-after-violent-video-games-and-films/ (https://www.mediaite.com/tv/rick-santorum-on-gun-control-debate-why-arent-we-going-after-violent-video-games-and-films/)

Those years of research he mentions have failed to find a link between violent games and movies and people being violent in real life. The closest we get to one is that immediately after playing aggressive games, gamers show a slight increase in aggressive tendencies. Within minutes, though, it decreases and gamers show a lower level of aggressiveness than the general population. Almost like it's an outlet which allows people to vent their aggressive tendencies in a way that doesn't hurt anybody...
Title: Re: Mass shooting in Vegas
Post by: Askold on October 16, 2017, 06:28:52 am
Lots of conspiracy stories about this.

Plenty of people crying how he must have lied about his political position because only a leftist could do something like this.

Cries about this being a false flag attack.

Someone linked a video from Sargon of Akkad where he tries to be "objective" about all the "conflicting information" about the shooting ...and then he proceeds to try to discredit the police as source of info about the shooting. That is something that should raise a few flags, it's one thing to remind people that random witnesses or anonymous sources on the net might be wrong but he actively puts the police in the same category and tells people to be suspicious of what the police tells you...