Author Topic: Man accidentally sets off medical alert pendant, cops shoot him  (Read 29970 times)

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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Man accidentally sets off medical alert pendant, cops shoot him
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2012, 11:39:10 pm »
*sighs* And of course the victim is black.

Is it jsut me, or has there been a surge of violence against black people lately?

Oh yes, entirely unprovoked too. He didn't hit his emergency responder button. He didn't swing a hatchet at a door. The cops had absolutely no reason to be there let alone try to subdue him when he showed he was violent and ended up shooting him...

And you'll ignore all the things that happened to OWSers too I imagine.

There is no increase in harassment against anyone than there was before, just more being caught on tape and posted to the internet where people are willing to lose their shit without looking anything up

Because I'm sure the police department always tells the truth and never lies to try saving the skin of its employees.  Nosirree.

If you believe the police report without any actual evidence, then I've got a bridge on the moon to sell you.
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Offline DasFuchs

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Re: Man accidentally sets off medical alert pendant, cops shoot him
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2012, 11:43:40 pm »
It doesn't matter if he was swinging a knife. Tazers, pepper spray, and other "nonlethal" forms of violence are supposed to be used instead of guns. That is, as a replacement for guns. The problem is, people think "nonlethal" means "I can use this as much as I want."

If they were proper policemen, they would have stopped at the tazer.

They did. Taser and beanbag. He was still swinging when they attempted to subdue him and as they backed off picked up a knife to threaten them.
I guess being stabbed/shot in the line of duty is far more acceptable?
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Offline DasFuchs

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Re: Man accidentally sets off medical alert pendant, cops shoot him
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2012, 11:46:58 pm »
*sighs* And of course the victim is black.

Is it jsut me, or has there been a surge of violence against black people lately?

Oh yes, entirely unprovoked too. He didn't hit his emergency responder button. He didn't swing a hatchet at a door. The cops had absolutely no reason to be there let alone try to subdue him when he showed he was violent and ended up shooting him...

And you'll ignore all the things that happened to OWSers too I imagine.

There is no increase in harassment against anyone than there was before, just more being caught on tape and posted to the internet where people are willing to lose their shit without looking anything up

Because I'm sure the police department always tells the truth and never lies to try saving the skin of its employees.  Nosirree.

If you believe the police report without any actual evidence, then I've got a bridge on the moon to sell you.

I'm by no means even close to drawing conclusions on this. But, I will take the officer's account a bit more than I will the relative since he's most likely experiencing some sort of grief. People do and say stupid shit, even so much as painting a picture of pure innocence to make them feel in the right.

The police don't always tell the truth, no, I'll admit they don't. I will take them over the son.
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Man accidentally sets off medical alert pendant, cops shoot him
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2012, 12:19:45 am »
Considering the police has a history of lying about people wronged by them (See their actions against OWS, for example) in order to prevent themselves from being charged, the police are automatically suspect and must provide evidence (in the form of video, for instance) that proves their case.

Until then, even a relative in grief is more trustworthy than them.

I have respect for the good people in the police, but as an institution, they've done so many suspect things that when it comes to the word of a victim or a victim's relative vs. the word of the policemen themselves, I'm going to side with the victim, until evidence comes out that proves the victim wrong.

For someone who's not drawing conclusions on this, you sure are talking like the police are telling facts.
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Offline Yaezakura

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Re: Man accidentally sets off medical alert pendant, cops shoot him
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2012, 12:32:08 am »
The issue I have with that line of reasoning is... the victim's relative wasn't there. His account is meaningless because he doesn't even have an account to tell.

I don't automatically trust the police in this case. But if they are telling the truth, then I feel they've done nothing wrong. As compared to Smurfette, who seems to be of the opinion that even if the guy was actively trying to kill the officers, they went too far by shooting him.

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Man accidentally sets off medical alert pendant, cops shoot him
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2012, 12:55:39 am »
The issue I have with that line of reasoning is... the victim's relative wasn't there. His account is meaningless because he doesn't even have an account to tell.

Where does it say this in either article?  That he wasn't there?

Because in the first article, it sounded like he had quite a detailed description.  Far more detailed for someone who wasn't there.  Not saying that's proof that he was there, but it leads one to believe that he's a bit more familiar with it.

Quote
I don't automatically trust the police in this case. But if they are telling the truth, then I feel they've done nothing wrong. As compared to Smurfette, who seems to be of the opinion that even if the guy was actively trying to kill the officers, they went too far by shooting him.

We won't know until a video is released.

That being said, until that video is released, I am still siding with the victim on this.  Because as I said, the police have a long history of lying about this sorta stuff.  Yes, there's a bit of sensationalism going on with this, but again, the police, as an institution, have an infamous history when it comes to being disproportionally violent with minorities...
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 12:58:05 am by Zachski »
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Offline Sylvana

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Re: Man accidentally sets off medical alert pendant, cops shoot him
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2012, 02:11:56 am »
Yes, there's a bit of sensationalism going on with this, but again, the police, as an institution, have an infamous history when it comes to being disproportionally violent with minorities...

Given the stuff that has been happening at places like OWS, I am more inclined to say there has been an average increase in disproportionate violence by police against suspects, along with a disturbing increase in lying to protect their own. Police powers seem to be growing out of control, and minorities are certainly on the receiving end of the worst of it. However I am inclined to say it is getting significantly worse in general.

Offline The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist

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Re: Man accidentally sets off medical alert pendant, cops shoot him
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2012, 02:27:47 am »
It doesn't matter if he was swinging a knife. Tazers, pepper spray, and other "nonlethal" forms of violence are supposed to be used instead of guns. That is, as a replacement for guns. The problem is, people think "nonlethal" means "I can use this as much as I want."

If they were proper policemen, they would have stopped at the tazer.

I have to disagree with this. If the cops are telling the truth (and I do realize that that's a big "if"), they would be within their rights to use deadly force against a suspect who started swinging a knife at them, just as you or I would be justified in doing the same in order to protect ourselves. Both sides seem to agree that tasers and beanbag guns were used before the shooting, so, again, coming back to that big "if", if the guy was swinging a knife (and threatened them with a hatchet, as the second article claims), less lethal weapons failed to subdue him, and he started slashing towards the officers, I can't say I'd fault them for using a gun to protect themselves. A knife is a deadly weapon, after all.

Of course, it's also possible that the cops involved are lying about any part of the incident, which would make all of this a moot point, but like I said, with so many contradicting reports, I'm really not comfortable drawing any conclusions just yet.
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Man accidentally sets off medical alert pendant, cops shoot him
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2012, 02:28:55 am »
However I am inclined to say it is getting significantly worse in general.

It is either this, or it's always been like this and it's just now coming into light.
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Offline Vypernight

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Re: Man accidentally sets off medical alert pendant, cops shoot him
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2012, 05:15:21 am »
"We want to make sure you're all right!"  BLAM!

Can't wait to see that one explained.
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Offline DasFuchs

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Re: Man accidentally sets off medical alert pendant, cops shoot him
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2012, 05:19:09 am »
Considering the police has a history of lying about people wronged by them (See their actions against OWS, for example) in order to prevent themselves from being charged, the police are automatically suspect and must provide evidence (in the form of video, for instance) that proves their case.

Until then, even a relative in grief is more trustworthy than them.

I have respect for the good people in the police, but as an institution, they've done so many suspect things that when it comes to the word of a victim or a victim's relative vs. the word of the policemen themselves, I'm going to side with the victim, until evidence comes out that proves the victim wrong.

For someone who's not drawing conclusions on this, you sure are talking like the police are telling facts.

"even a relative in grief is more trustworthy than them."

So you'll take one group of people's history for lying over another based on...well, because the other group are cops

"For someone who's not drawing conclusions on this, you sure are talking like the police are telling facts."

I'm not sure who's right or wrong in this one. From experience and simple reason, the cops story seems to mesh with reality more. The son's story paints too much of a complete angel of a story gunned down for no reason other than he was black. But I am not to the point of saying the cops were 100% right or that somehow the son is in the right.


Quote
Where does it say this in either article?  That he wasn't there?

Because in the first article, it sounded like he had quite a detailed description.  Far more detailed for someone who wasn't there.  Not saying that's proof that he was there, but it leads one to believe that he's a bit more familiar with it.

It says that he watched the tapes the cops took. I would think if he was there he'd be mentioned in the report and wouldn't need to see the video
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Offline Yla

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Re: Man accidentally sets off medical alert pendant, cops shoot him
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2012, 05:52:40 am »
Y'all still remember years ago on the old forum AA and LHM posting stories of police brutality and the forum dogpiling on them....
Things sure have changed.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Man accidentally sets off medical alert pendant, cops shoot him
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2012, 06:00:25 am »
Y'all still remember years ago on the old forum AA and LHM posting stories of police brutality and the forum dogpiling on them....
Things sure have changed.

LHM usually dug up a single incident of a police officer doing something illegal or unethical and then extrapolated that every single police officer ever is a corrupt bastardly baby-eater.

Nowadays folks are bringin up single incidents of cops doing something wrong and people comment that this particular cop or the ones involved in this particular case are corrupt/racist/baby-eaters.
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Offline The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist

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Re: Man accidentally sets off medical alert pendant, cops shoot him
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2012, 09:20:01 am »
^^ LHM did dig up stories about cops doing something wrong and made some rather excessive claims based upon them, but it was more AA who did the whole "rawr, every cop ever is a monster, rage against the machine!" thing.

Y'all still remember years ago on the old forum AA and LHM posting stories of police brutality and the forum dogpiling on them....
Things sure have changed.

I wouldn't put LHM in the same category as AA. LHM was over-the-top with stories about police brutality and his distrust for them, but he also acknowledged that the police are necessary for society, and that there are good cops out there. AA, on the other hand, seemed to think that we'd be better off with vigilante groups and an extremist libertarian society, where everyone runs around with a gun, avenging crime ala some kind of misguided antihero fantasy. According to him, pretty much every cop was an evil, authoritarian bastard.

Hell, even WMDKitty's dislike for the police never came close to AA's insanity... though AA was trolling a good 90% of the time (or "acting as a parody" of himself, as he once claimed), so it's hard to tell what he actually believed, and what was just being said to get people riled up.

Edit: I think the defining moment of AA's posting career was when he stated that he was "Just the guy asking questions!" during some 9/11 conspiracy theory debate. God, that was almost too perfect.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 09:28:36 am by Mlle Antéchrist »
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Offline MadCatTLX

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Re: Man accidentally sets off medical alert pendant, cops shoot him
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2012, 10:44:16 am »
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