Author Topic: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo  (Read 30578 times)

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Offline Ironchew

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2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« on: July 17, 2014, 02:29:52 pm »
Hopefully this thread will attract some of the recent discussion Best Political Cartoons in someplace more on-topic.

Two sides throw down in a highly asymmetrical conflict. In the red corner, an apartheid colonizer with tens of billions of dollars in aid flowing in from the U.S. government and no intention of stopping their blatant violation of international law regarding settlement expansion and border blockades. In the blue corner, an unstable open-air prison with less-refined rocketry. Cease-fires were alleged, though the practical root contentions likely were not addressed at all. The death toll in the red corner: 1, several wounded. In the blue corner: 230, over 1,100 wounded.

But remember: the red corner is acting in self defense and the blue corner knows nothing but violence.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2014, 02:35:42 pm »
Ah yes, because the underdog always has moral superiority.  And murdering civilians in cold blood is also against international law.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 02:38:38 pm by Ultimate Paragon »

Offline Ironchew

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2014, 02:47:09 pm »
And murdering civilians in cold blood is also against international law.

There's an end-run around that. Haven't you heard that these airstrikes kill only insurgents, often retroactively, but still very much insurgents?
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2014, 02:50:34 pm »
And murdering civilians in cold blood is also against international law.

There's an end-run around that. Haven't you heard that these airstrikes kill only insurgents, often retroactively, but still very much insurgents?
Israel does acknowledge civilian deaths.

Offline Second Coming of Madman

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2014, 03:15:35 pm »
There are still the multiple grave crimes  the government of Israel has committed against it's people and others.

In general, the IDF is the greatest military power and possibly the most unrestrained one in the ME. Yet, it cannot end the threat of Hamas and indeed has begun to use the same tactics. These include targeted killings, human shields, kidnapping/ holding civilians incommunicado , censorship of the media and the infamous "Tip of the spear" unit.

On a moral scale, Hamas and the Israeli government are on the same level. Neither is right for Israelis, neither is right for Palestinians.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2014, 03:17:53 pm »
There are still the multiple grave crimes  the government of Israel has committed against it's people and others.

In general, the IDF is the greatest military power and possibly the most unrestrained one in the ME. Yet, it cannot end the threat of Hamas and indeed has begun to use the same tactics. These include targeted killings, human shields, kidnapping/ holding civilians incommunicado , censorship of the media and the infamous "Tip of the spear" unit.

On a moral scale, Hamas and the Israeli government are on the same level. Neither is right for Israelis, neither is right for Palestinians.
I think you're half right.  Quite a bit of the stuff Israel does is worthy of criticism, if not condemnation.  However, I still think they still have a moral edge over Hamas, small as it may be.

Offline ironbite

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2014, 03:33:14 pm »
Is that moral edge they didn't start it?

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2014, 03:35:13 pm »
Is that moral edge they didn't start it?
There are more factors than that.

Offline Ironchew

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2014, 04:19:14 pm »
Israel has started a ground invasion of Gaza.

Because when an oppressed population gets uppity, sometimes you have to put that moral-high-ground jackboot on their neck.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2014, 04:29:46 pm »
Israel has started a ground invasion of Gaza.

Because when an oppressed population gets uppity, sometimes you have to put that moral-high-ground jackboot on their neck.
You know, this really isn't all that different from the anti-terrorism operations going on in Pakistan right now.  Still, I'm hoping for a minimum of collateral damage and innocent casualties.

Offline Meshakhad

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2014, 04:38:27 pm »
I won't deny that Israel has blood on its hands, but I still think that they're better than Hamas. Hamas never even TRIES to limit itself to military targets. Israel does try. That, in my mind, is the difference.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2014, 04:43:08 pm »
I won't deny that Israel has blood on its hands, but I still think that they're better than Hamas. Hamas never even TRIES to limit itself to military targets. Israel does try. That, in my mind, is the difference.
A difference.  There are others as well.

Offline Ironchew

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2014, 04:50:47 pm »
Israel has started a ground invasion of Gaza.

Because when an oppressed population gets uppity, sometimes you have to put that moral-high-ground jackboot on their neck.
You know, this really isn't all that different from the anti-terrorism operations going on in Pakistan right now.  Still, I'm hoping for a minimum of collateral damage and innocent casualties.

As Iraq has shown us, it's virtually impossible to avoid civilian targets in a ground invasion. This is insane.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2014, 04:54:03 pm »
Israel has started a ground invasion of Gaza.

Because when an oppressed population gets uppity, sometimes you have to put that moral-high-ground jackboot on their neck.
You know, this really isn't all that different from the anti-terrorism operations going on in Pakistan right now.  Still, I'm hoping for a minimum of collateral damage and innocent casualties.

As Iraq has shown us, it's virtually impossible to avoid civilian targets in a ground invasion. This is insane.
My operative word was "minimum".  I'm not so dumb as to think there'd be no innocent lives lost.

Offline Ironchew

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Re: 2014 Israel/Gaza conflict: electric boogaloo
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2014, 04:59:50 pm »
My operative word was "minimum".  I'm not so dumb as to think there'd be no innocent lives lost.

Let's put it this way: airstrikes do not minimize civilian deaths at all, but a ground invasion ensures maximum carnage.
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