Author Topic: Gillete Ad Upsets Manosphere Crybabies  (Read 240 times)

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Offline Kanzenkankaku

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Re: Gillete Ad Upsets Manosphere Crybabies
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2019, 02:32:31 am »
The only criticism I can really muster up is it could come across as heavy handed in how it delivers its message.

Manbaby tantrums are still funny though.

Offline Askold

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Re: Gillete Ad Upsets Manosphere Crybabies
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2019, 05:02:59 am »
The ad also has men stopping the bad behaviour from others. That makes it clear that the ad isn't trying to say that every man is a bad one. I was just watching a TV show where the villain was a guy. Does that mean that the show was an attack on all men? Would it matter if the villain was Black or Asian or LGBT?

The fact that people keep crying about this Gillette ad so much means that either they have no understanding of nuance or they are dishonest in their arguments.
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Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Gillete Ad Upsets Manosphere Crybabies
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2019, 06:54:28 am »
It's both fascinating and frustrating how it's so difficult for many people to understand how changing a social context can change the implications of a message. I guess it gives a comforting feeling of being more intelligent when you reduce a complex reality into simplified logical abstractions. Trying to pierce this illusion by bringing the complexities of communication and social contexts can be dismissed as being hypocritical and/or insufficiently intellectual.

This reduction can also be used to consciously dismiss any inconvenient context in order to play semantic games where the purpose is to just own the opponent. This type of game can often be an efficient trolling tactic.

Offline rookie

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Re: Gillete Ad Upsets Manosphere Crybabies
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2019, 01:31:10 pm »
...
The fact that people keep crying about this Gillette ad so much means that either they have no understanding of nuance or they are dishonest in their arguments.

Or that they just want to be offended.

As a beard having flannel shirts wearing tree chopping many man, I'm the opposite of offended or outraged. All Gillette's doing is saying out loud what we men have been told since boyhood. And if don't be a dick offends, maybe they should be offended.
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Offline Chaos Undivided

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Re: Gillete Ad Upsets Manosphere Crybabies
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2019, 05:32:49 pm »
You don't have to agree with the detractors, but I think it would be a good idea to at least try and understand where they're coming from rather than just dismissing them.

Offline rookie

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Re: Gillete Ad Upsets Manosphere Crybabies
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2019, 06:30:18 pm »
It's not that I don't get where they're coming from, please make no misunderstanding of that. And it's because I understand their gripes that I can dismiss them so easily.
The difference between 0 and 1 is infinite. The difference between 1 and a million is a matter of degree. - Zack Johnson

Quote from: davedan board=pg thread=6573 post=218058 time=1286247542
I'll stop eating beef lamb and pork the same day they start letting me eat vegetarians.

Offline Chaos Undivided

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Re: Gillete Ad Upsets Manosphere Crybabies
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2019, 06:57:55 pm »
It's not that I don't get where they're coming from, please make no misunderstanding of that. And it's because I understand their gripes that I can dismiss them so easily.

It's less the "don't be an asshole" message and more the heavy implication that most men are either sexually harassing bullies or enablers of sexually harassing bullies. Here's a direct quote from the commercial:

Quote from: Gillette
We believe in the best in men. To say the right thing. To act the right way. Some already are in ways big and small. But some is not enough.

Emphasis mine. Askold was correct that it doesn't portray all men in such a negative light. But that doesn't really make it better. Remember this?

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When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. ... They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

When you depict a majority of a demographic as being "wrong" in some way, you are going to ruffle some feathers, even if you add the qualifier that some aren't.

It's both fascinating and frustrating how it's so difficult for many people to understand how changing a social context can change the implications of a message. I guess it gives a comforting feeling of being more intelligent when you reduce a complex reality into simplified logical abstractions. Trying to pierce this illusion by bringing the complexities of communication and social contexts can be dismissed as being hypocritical and/or insufficiently intellectual.

This reduction can also be used to consciously dismiss any inconvenient context in order to play semantic games where the purpose is to just own the opponent. This type of game can often be an efficient trolling tactic.

I'm guessing from the context that you're talking about my hypothetical "black" version of this ad. Well, I see where you're coming from, and it's not a 1:1 comparison. But these comparisons aren't necessarily bad. There are times when drawing such comparisons is justified, even if you don't believe in moral universalism like I do. In America, men generally receive longer sentences than women for the same crimes, similar to how things are for black people as compared to white people. Wouldn't you say both are evidence of systemic bias?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 08:10:20 pm by Chaos Undivided »

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Gillete Ad Upsets Manosphere Crybabies
« Reply #22 on: Today at 01:28:19 am »
They're right.  Half measures are worthless.  Either do something when you're able or fuck off.
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Offline Skybison

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Re: Gillete Ad Upsets Manosphere Crybabies
« Reply #23 on: Today at 01:29:09 am »
Can you define what you mean by moral universalism, because I don't see what that has to do with the shaving commercial.

Toxic masculinity is a thing.  Saying that cultural attitudes exist that say a man must violently dominate others and do other things that are harmful to himself or others to prove himself a real man and that these attitudes cause lots of problems in our society is well supported by modern psychology, sociology and criminology.  The idea that Mexicans are a bunch of rapists is not.  So this is a false comparison.

Offline rookie

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Re: Gillete Ad Upsets Manosphere Crybabies
« Reply #24 on: Today at 10:11:24 am »
Chaos, I didn't get the same message you did I guess. However, if you'd like to be offended, may I offer an idea? How about being upset that such a commercial had to be made. That direct quote from the commercial you put up and emphasized was absolutely correct, you know. Some is not enough. Many, even most is not enough. And it really is up to the some, many, most to bring us all up.

Maybe it's generational though? So I'm staring 40 in the face. And I was brought up on what a man is supposed to be and do. From movies, male relatives and family friends, books, all laid out an eerily similar blueprint for being a man. Doing the right thing always featured heavily. Be it a WWII or Vietnam vet, cowboy on screen, or gentle mild mannered man working his ass off to provide for his family, do the right thing always. That's how Xers were brought up. And somewhere we lost that.

Gillette was absolutely right. It is up to Real Men(tm) to curtail the behavior of those calling themselves men without doing Man Responsibilities. Why? Well when Frat Douche drugs her drink, grabs her ass, picks fights, bails on his kids, whatever, he isn't dragging down women. Not to mention stopping such behavior, or trying to, is the right thing to do.
The difference between 0 and 1 is infinite. The difference between 1 and a million is a matter of degree. - Zack Johnson

Quote from: davedan board=pg thread=6573 post=218058 time=1286247542
I'll stop eating beef lamb and pork the same day they start letting me eat vegetarians.