Author Topic: U.S. Military taught officers course on "total war" against Islam  (Read 7766 times)

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Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: U.S. Military taught officers course on "total war" against Islam
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2012, 03:05:20 am »
Fpqxz, I have to say... I am disappoint.

Biblical literalism is a fairly recent innovation in Christianity.  Quranic literalism has been a feature of (most) of the surviving sects of Islam, though some are a bit more "serious" about it than others.

Actually, Jihadism as a political and religious ideology (it later became the basis for groups like the Taliban and Al Qaeda) only arose in the last century or so, invented by two really fundamentalist clerics who claimed that the entire Qu'ran was corrupted after Muhammad's death, dismissing all other Islamic scholarship. Sorry, I've just studied this topic in the past, and I couldn't let this go.

The only differences are that 1) right now, the West is not in conflict with the Vatican or with Judaism, and 2) neither of these religions has the sort of expansionist doctrines that Islam has (at least, not in the present day).

"Expansionist doctrine"? Um, this isn't the Ottoman Empire we're talking about, dude. The Muslim population growing in Western countries is not "expansionism," just "immigration."

Would the US also invade Europe, Africa and Asia to eliminate the "menace," as they're also becoming quite populous there as well?  Not to mention prison/concentration camps in Canada and the US?  It's a religion, not a race, anyone can become a Muslim and not that many of them are extremist, despite what the popular media decides to portray.

Considering the incredibly toxic political climate after 9/11, I would seriously not have been so surprised if the U.S. herded Muslims into internment camps, even the ones who were loyal American citizens. They've already done that during WWII with loyal Japanese-American citizens. I know kids whose grandparents were forced to leave all their property behind, and they basically grew up in those camps for the entire war. Why? Because they might have "racial/nationalistic ties" to their "home country." Yes, even the ones who were born here.

The fact that we are training our military to believe in abject bigotry and racism through propaganda is disgusting and reprehensible. This is not a war about religion, it never was. It was a war about oil. They're just exploiting people's Islamophobia to dehumanize the"enemy" and make him seem "other" - the same way we humans do in every war. It helps many of these soldiers justify the "collateral damage" and other atrocities committed there.

I'd like you to meet Nayzak. Classy dude, he is. He's a Muslim, and his religion is the topic of most if not all of his art. http://nayzak.deviantart.com/
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Offline largeham

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Re: U.S. Military taught officers course on "total war" against Islam
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2012, 03:17:44 am »
Actually, Jihadism as a political and religious ideology (it later became the basis for groups like the Taliban and Al Qaeda) only arose in the last century or so, invented by two really fundamentalist clerics who claimed that the entire Qu'ran was corrupted after Muhammad's death, dismissing all other Islamic scholarship. Sorry, I've just studied this topic in the past, and I couldn't let this go.

The trend during the 20th century was towards a some sort of secular nationalism: Turkey under Ataturk and then later in Egypt and Iran under Nasser and Mossadegh. The US helped fund the creation of fundamental Islam through its funding of the King of Saud and Sadat, both supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood. Also, they used Khomeini's teacher (I forget his name) during the coup against Mossadegh to gather support.

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Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: U.S. Military taught officers course on "total war" against Islam
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2012, 03:27:16 am »
Actually, Jihadism as a political and religious ideology (it later became the basis for groups like the Taliban and Al Qaeda) only arose in the last century or so, invented by two really fundamentalist clerics who claimed that the entire Qu'ran was corrupted after Muhammad's death, dismissing all other Islamic scholarship. Sorry, I've just studied this topic in the past, and I couldn't let this go.

The trend during the 20th century was towards a some sort of secular nationalism: Turkey under Ataturk and then later in Egypt and Iran under Nasser and Mossadegh. The US helped fund the creation of fundamental Islam through its funding of the King of Saud and Sadat, both supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood. Also, they used Khomeini's teacher (I forget his name) during the coup against Mossadegh to gather support.

Yup, America actually funded the Taliban in Afghanistan simply because they were rebelling against the Soviets.
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: U.S. Military taught officers course on "total war" against Islam
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2012, 03:47:09 am »
The US continued to back the Taliban even after the Soviets left.
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Re: U.S. Military taught officers course on "total war" against Islam
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2012, 05:22:34 am »
Yeah. Blowing up a chunk of a country without regard for civilians. That totally won't make the rest of the world hate you forever
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Offline DasFuchs

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Re: U.S. Military taught officers course on "total war" against Islam
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2012, 06:33:02 am »
Seeing as the tyt version of the story mentions that the course said that there is no such thing as moderate Islam it would not be just fundies

I meant the belief system as a whole.   Mainstream Islamic belief is the the Quran was dictated by God and is absolute.

So you would use a fundamentalist mentality to do away with fundamentalists....You are completely nuts
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Re: U.S. Military taught officers course on "total war" against Islam
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2012, 08:05:16 am »
As a Muslim myself, I can only say that as long there is idiocy & hate, fundamentalism shall continue to exist. I am not defending extremism of my own religion (or any religion), I'm saying that we should purge the world of this idiocy and hate, instead of making anyone owning a Qur'an/Bible/any religious text glow in the dark. Don't destroy the religion as a whole, destroy the idiots & douchebags that use religion as an excuse for murder, hate crimes, etc.
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Re: U.S. Military taught officers course on "total war" against Islam
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2012, 12:56:49 pm »
If you want the violence and bloodshed to escalate at an unprecedented rate, an attack on Mecca would certainly be an efficient way to accomplish your goals.
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Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: U.S. Military taught officers course on "total war" against Islam
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2012, 04:29:14 pm »
Attacking a holy site that is sacred to millions of people worldwide is a surefire way of making your country look like a massive dick in the eyes of the world community.
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Offline Fpqxz

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Re: U.S. Military taught officers course on "total war" against Islam
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2012, 05:17:39 pm »
Seeing as the tyt version of the story mentions that the course said that there is no such thing as moderate Islam it would not be just fundies

I meant the belief system as a whole.   Mainstream Islamic belief is the the Quran was dictated by God and is absolute.

So you would use a fundamentalist mentality to do away with fundamentalists....You are completely nuts

I said no such thing.  In fact, I clarified my position earlier in the thread.

You people don't even read what I write, do you?
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Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: U.S. Military taught officers course on "total war" against Islam
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2012, 05:33:34 pm »
Quote from: Fpqxz
While I would like nothing better than to see violent Islam consigned to the ash heap of history, I don't believe that military action would accomplish this end. Frankly, that should really be the last resort.

Okay then, I stand corrected. You don't support genocidal military action against Muslims, you just potentially support indoctrinating soldiers with propaganda that makes them want to do so.

Like I said before, this is not a war against religion. It never was and it never will be. The media and government wants their Christian fundamentalist population to see this as an extension of the Crusades, and while it would maximize morale, it would minimize sanity and a respect for human rights. Really, there's no good moral reason why we should be in there in the first place. We're not liberating the people or accomplishing anything worthwhile in a region that is essentially unstable by default to begin with. When Britain and France were dividing up the destroyed Ottoman Empire, they drew the borders based on their own economic and military concerns, but ignored the ethnic and religious wars that it would incite.
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Offline Random Gal

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Re: U.S. Military taught officers course on "total war" against Islam
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2012, 06:55:27 pm »
How exactly is bombing Mecca off the face of the earth supposed to end the threat of radical Muslims? If anything, it'll just piss them off even more.

Offline Danarth

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Re: U.S. Military taught officers course on "total war" against Islam
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2012, 07:01:32 pm »
To be honest, I suspect the only way to stop Fundementalism from ever cropping up would be to kill 'everyone'.

Which is really not a good idea.

A high level of education and a higher standard of living for people could no doubt minimize the incidents of fundementalism but I doubt it will ever really stop entirely.

Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: U.S. Military taught officers course on "total war" against Islam
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2012, 07:12:46 pm »
How exactly is bombing Mecca off the face of the earth supposed to end the threat of radical Muslims? If anything, it'll just piss them off even more.

This. The ideology of most, if not all, Muslim terrorist organizations in the Middle East is based of a hatred of Western involvement, and a feeling of persecution at the hands of Western nations. Don't add fuel to the fire.

To be honest, I suspect the only way to stop Fundementalism from ever cropping up would be to kill 'everyone'.

Which is really not a good idea.

A high level of education and a higher standard of living for people could no doubt minimize the incidents of fundementalism but I doubt it will ever really stop entirely.

Yeah, I mean I think that religion in general is liberalizing, but America itself is quite an anomaly in that despite being a developed first-world nation, its rates of religious belief and fundamentalism are very high.
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: U.S. Military taught officers course on "total war" against Islam
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2012, 07:42:49 pm »
a higher standard of living for people could no doubt minimize the incidents of fundementalism

This.
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