Author Topic: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.  (Read 2253 times)

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Offline Askold

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Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« on: June 18, 2013, 02:49:37 pm »
A Finnish news article used NYTimes article as it's source in an article about the Guantanamo bay prisoners.

Some are being released or transferred out, but still USA is going to put many of then to trial despite all the "enhanced interrogation" that has been done to them. But that is not what enraged me.

Apparently since some of the prisoners are there due to information gained by "enhanced interrogation" and since you can't use "information" that you gained by torture in a court there is no actual evidence against them. But they are still concidered too dangerous to release so they will be held in jail for the foreseeable future.

USA is keeping people in jail without putting them in trial or giving them any opportunity to defend themselves. They do not get any opportunity to defend themselves because USA knows that if they go to court these prisoners would walk free.

The article specifically claimed that these people might be held in jail for life without a trial.

The NY Times article does not think the "Let's just keep these folks in jail without a trial after were done torturing them, DO HO HO!" part is all that important but it is there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/18/us/justice-dept-releases-recommended-fates-for-guantanamo-detainees.html
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/714599-savage-final-response.html

I know that I can't really blame every US citizen for this... Although the voters do carry some of the guilt. But this is my message to the US politicians and military officers who did this, the soldiers and goverment employees who obeyed these orders and the law enforcement and courts who seem to act like this behaviour is not against your constitution and human rights in general:

That is all.
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Offline kefkaownsall

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2013, 03:47:10 pm »
What i find silly is we've tried some in civilian courts and got convictions so we don't really need the subterfuge.

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2013, 03:49:31 pm »
Does anyone remember the Daily Show Gitmo/Elmo bit? Where Gitmo tells Jon Stewart he wasn't a terrorist when he went in but he wants to be one now?

Offline mellenORL

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2013, 04:17:23 pm »
The right thing to do would have been immediate clearance procedures along with mental and medical health evaluations, a generous monetary settlement annuity, and let them go, regardless of suspicions about them being possible terrorists. Obama should have done that first term. Every day that goes by with these people in Gitmo just "Inspire"s more terrorists abroad. You cannot command the moral high ground from the towers of a dungeon's keep.



What will happen? Hopefully something not like this example of how the US has treated persons of unknown threat potential in recent history...keeping them almost 20 years in prison limbo.

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/cuba/mariel-release.htm
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Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2013, 05:04:12 pm »
Wasn't there also some scandal once that the fire detectors in the rooms where the detainees met their defense attorneys were actually listening devices?
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Offline Meshakhad

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2013, 06:47:10 pm »
My opinion is that we should have just called them POWs.
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Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2013, 11:45:06 pm »
My opinion is that we should have just called them POWs.

My opinion is that most, if not all, of the people currently being detained in Guantanamo should be released, that those who can be guilty in a court of law be done so, and that the entire facility be shut down and its leaders prosecuted for war crimes. Torture is against the Geneva convention for a reason.
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Offline anti-nonsense

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2013, 05:46:03 am »
Doesn't matter if they are criminal detainees or POWs, they deserve better treatment regardless. That shit is inexcusable.
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Offline erictheblue

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2013, 08:09:22 am »
With respect to freeing all of them and closing Gitmo, Obama legally cannot do it. Congress (who controls the purse strings, per the Constitution) keeps including clauses in budget documents that bar the President from using funds to repatriate Gitmo prisoners. This includes prisoners who have already been cleared of any wrongdoing.
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Offline mellenORL

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2013, 10:06:35 am »
Eric, I wonder if it is possible to order the closure and dismantling of Gitmo as a separate action, and thereby incidentally move the prisoners elsewhere, preferably to a US base on the mainland? Clinton carried through the closure of many military bases that were extraneous, outdated and inefficient as part of his budget balancing procedures. It was a somewhat unpopular, hot button issue, but it was carried out anyway.

Besides just its reeking humanitarian and political stench, Gitmo is an old base on hostile soil, our land lease payments to Cuba for it just help fund a scuzzy, unlikeable enemy government. In this era of thousand mile range aircraft carrier strategic capability, it is obsolete. Has been for decades. Especially considering all the bases here in nearby Florida. See where I'm weaseling to? Just hoping a future executive order could be someday soon squeaked past GOP control freak derp.

The biggest problem with Gitmo as a prison is it's relative inaccessibility to observation by the world at large...precisely why it has been used to contain suspected terrorists. A dungeon, complete with torture rooms. Which is just too sexy a Man Cave theme for GOP fucks to give up on, apparently.
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Offline erictheblue

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2013, 11:53:39 am »
Eric, I wonder if it is possible to order the closure and dismantling of Gitmo as a separate action, and thereby incidentally move the prisoners elsewhere, preferably to a US base on the mainland?

I don't think so, given the way the clauses are worded. However, it's been a while since I read anything about them, so can't remember the exact phrasings. It may be possible.
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Offline Meshakhad

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2013, 12:09:10 pm »
Eric, I wonder if it is possible to order the closure and dismantling of Gitmo as a separate action, and thereby incidentally move the prisoners elsewhere, preferably to a US base on the mainland?

I don't know if he could, but he should. I think that northern Alaska would work - should any detainees escape, they would either freeze to death or be eaten by a polar bear. As for the detainees, I'd divide them into two categories:

1. Those who committed (or were caught trying to commit) acts of terror on US soil, or are themselves American citizens captured while fighting against US forces, will be interrogated (not tortured) for useful information, then sent to the civilian courts, to be tried for terrorism or treason.
2. Those who were captured fighting against US forces abroad will be treated as POWs. After the war in Afghanistan ends, they will be returned to the Afghan government.
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Offline kefkaownsall

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2013, 12:26:33 pm »
many are not from Afghanistan and over half are cleared for release.  Also we are not at war with Afganistan

Offline Meshakhad

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2013, 03:41:16 pm »
many are not from Afghanistan and over half are cleared for release.  Also we are not at war with Afganistan

*slaps self*

OK. The ones cleared for release should obviously be released. Those Afghans captured during the war in Afghanistan should be sent back to the Afghan government. Non-Afghans captured should be detained until the end of the war.
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Offline erictheblue

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Re: Concerning Guantanamo Bay Prison.
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2013, 06:24:22 pm »
Eric, I wonder if it is possible to order the closure and dismantling of Gitmo as a separate action, and thereby incidentally move the prisoners elsewhere, preferably to a US base on the mainland?

I don't know if he could, but he should.

As I said, if he does, he will be breaking the law. Congress has forbid him to do that, and they put it in budget bills that he had to sign into law.
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