Pope Francis I: "All Are Redeemed, And All Can Do Good"

[Yla]

Small nitpick: it's just Francis, not Francis I.; John Paul I. was an exception.

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[Her3tiK]

So... now that the leader of the world's largest mafia says something nice, he's a good guy? Does his stance on gay marriage and adoption mean nothing, now? Or his rather dubious involvement in Argentina's "dirty war"?

Sorry, not buying it. The RCC has too much to atone for, and both the institution and its new leader have more to answer for than empty platitudes can hope to fix. Instead of giving cute little speeches from his balcony, he should shut up and make some actual changes. Until then, same shit, different asshole.

[dpareja]

Small nitpick: it's just Francis, not Francis I.; John Paul I. was an exception.

This productive post was brought to you by Yla.

He's only Francis because there has only been one Pope to have taken that name. If there's another Pope who takes the name Francis at some future time, the current incumbent will retroactively be Francis I.

[Caitshidhe]

So... now that the leader of the world's largest mafia says something nice, he's a good guy? Does his stance on gay marriage and adoption mean nothing, now? Or his rather dubious involvement in Argentina's "dirty war"?

Sorry, not buying it. The RCC has too much to atone for, and both the institution and its new leader have more to answer for than empty platitudes can hope to fix. Instead of giving cute little speeches from his balcony, he should shut up and make some actual changes. Until then, same shit, different asshole.

Yeeeah, ths is pretty much my feeling as well. The RCC has done enough terrible, terrible shit even just recently--never mind historically--that it's justified thinking the worst of them until they bend over backwards to prove otherwise. And not JUST by talking, either.

[Itachirumon]

I wouldn't say he's become a good guy - I 'will' say that if this trend continues and his viewpoints evolve he might eventually become a good guy. The RCC are still evil monsters - now he can restore the image but it'll take an assload of work.

So I won't say he's a good guy, but this isn't the worst start in the history of Popedom.

[Katsuro]

"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics.  Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!”

Hasn't he just admitted that religion, and therefore the church and himself, are pointless?  Why bother with worship and all the dogma and whatnot if none of it makes any difference?

[dpareja]

"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics.  Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!”

Hasn't he just admitted that religion, and therefore the church and himself, are pointless?  Why bother with worship and all the dogma and whatnot if none of it makes any difference?

Because apparently there's some fine dogmatic distinction between "redeemed" and "saved".

[Katsuro]

"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics.  Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!”

Hasn't he just admitted that religion, and therefore the church and himself, are pointless?  Why bother with worship and all the dogma and whatnot if none of it makes any difference?

Because apparently there's some fine dogmatic distinction between "redeemed" and "saved".

I have a feeling that even after the difference is explained to me I still won't get it.

[Art Vandelay]

"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics.  Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!”

Hasn't he just admitted that religion, and therefore the church and himself, are pointless?  Why bother with worship and all the dogma and whatnot if none of it makes any difference?

Because apparently there's some fine dogmatic distinction between "redeemed" and "saved".

I have a feeling that even after the difference is explained to me I still won't get it.

I imagine "saved" means you go straight to heaven while "redeemed" means you go via purgatory for a few hundred years.

[Katsuro]

"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics.  Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!”

Hasn't he just admitted that religion, and therefore the church and himself, are pointless?  Why bother with worship and all the dogma and whatnot if none of it makes any difference?

Because apparently there's some fine dogmatic distinction between "redeemed" and "saved".

I have a feeling that even after the difference is explained to me I still won't get it.

I imagine "saved" means you go straight to heaven while "redeemed" means you go via purgatory for a few hundred years.

That place that the Bible never mentions even once, so even if Christianity is true it almost certainly doesn't exist?  I'm not too worried about purgatory lol.

[dpareja]

"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics.  Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!”

Hasn't he just admitted that religion, and therefore the church and himself, are pointless?  Why bother with worship and all the dogma and whatnot if none of it makes any difference?

Because apparently there's some fine dogmatic distinction between "redeemed" and "saved".

I have a feeling that even after the difference is explained to me I still won't get it.

I imagine "saved" means you go straight to heaven while "redeemed" means you go via purgatory for a few hundred years.

From what I gather, "redeemed" means that you can be "saved" and go to heaven, but if you don't join the Catholic Church you're going to hell.

[Sleepy]

From what I gather, "redeemed" means that you can be "saved" and go to heaven, but if you don't join the Catholic Church you're going to hell.

That's how I read it. Basically, "It's okay that you silly atheists and other religious folks haven't joined the Catholic Church yet. In fact, I'm going to be super nice and forgive you for it, and even give you another chance." Because that's not insulting at all.

[mellenORL]

I'm glad the Vatican cleared it up that atheists are still going to hell. Fear of heights and hatred of harp music would make heaven hell for me, anyway

[Witchyjoshy]

Hasn't he just admitted that religion, and therefore the church and himself, are pointless?  Why bother with worship and all the dogma and whatnot if none of it makes any difference?

While he hasn't (don't you just love weasel words like 'Redeemed'), I would venture to say that the impetus for most Christians (and indeed most religious people) to worship isn't fear of hellfire, but love of religion/deity/whatever itself.

Even CLF, the really fundie church I used to go to, the people there loved God with a passion normally reserved for .......... Uh ... celebrities.  It wasn't fear of hellfire that drove them, but love of being a Christian.

That being said, no excuse for the shitty things they do.  Not one bit.  And as Jesus Camp showed us, there is such a thing as loving religion too much.  CLF loved its religion too much.  Just saying that outside of the most fire-and-brimstone sects, you'd be surprised at how few people practice religion because of fear of their eternal soul.

[R. U. Sirius]

Hasn't he just admitted that religion, and therefore the church and himself, are pointless?  Why bother with worship and all the dogma and whatnot if none of it makes any difference?

While he hasn't (don't you just love weasel words like 'Redeemed'), I would venture to say that the impetus for most Christians (and indeed most religious people) to worship isn't fear of hellfire, but love of religion/deity/whatever itself.

Even CLF, the really fundie church I used to go to, the people there loved God with a passion normally reserved for .......... Uh ... celebrities.  It wasn't fear of hellfire that drove them, but love of being a Christian.

That being said, no excuse for the shitty things they do.  Not one bit.  And as Jesus Camp showed us, there is such a thing as loving religion too much.  CLF loved its religion too much.  Just saying that outside of the most fire-and-brimstone sects, you'd be surprised at how few people practice religion because of fear of their eternal soul.

All of which makes it doubly confusing why they use such threats so often to proselytize outsiders and control their members.