Worst of Social Justice

[Witchyjoshy]

Also, Posthuman?

Could you stop flooding the thread with images?  We can't discuss them because there's far too many per post, and far too many posts per row.  This isn't an official rule, but I'd like to ask you to keep it down to about three images per post, and not post several times in a row as well.  Wait for people to react.

[PosthumanHeresy]

I actually have a thread about this a few pages back in this section, and for all the differences I have with Queen regarding this, I do kinda see why she facepalmed. Y'see, there's a certain sector of the therian community that tries to piggyback off of the real struggles that transpeople face every day and claim they face the same discrimination. Largely because of that, I at least try to discourage comparisons to transpeople, because it's kind of a different thing.

Protip for PosthumanHeresy:

It's not a good idea compare transsexuality and therianthropy/otherkin.  Therianthropy/Otherkin is a spiritual thing (despite the Tumblrkin trying to hijack the trans movement, and the belief of certain otherkin that the tumblrkin are hijacking the otherkin movement too).  Transsexuality is a biological thing.  The two are about as similar as potatoes and tomatos.

...Probably less similar, actually.

It also makes resident therians feel awkward and resident QueenofHearts angry.

Besides, we've had this argument before and both sides felt pretty disgruntled about it.

I get what you two are saying, and I understand. My comment wasn't comparing the two in any way besides for the fact that, in my mindset, they are differentiations in the mind and therefore I don't dismiss them, but I could quite easily see how that could be misconstrued, especially with all the dumbasses that take it further. The only thing I see in common is it's stuff to do with that weird, irritating thing known as the human mind. I do not intend to offend. I look at many things from a more psychological view than an emotional or spiritual mindset, and am more likely to notice similarities like that than anything else. That was purely my intent.

Also, Posthuman?

Could you stop flooding the thread with images?  We can't discuss them because there's far too many per post, and far too many posts per row.  This isn't an official rule, but I'd like to ask you to keep it down to about three images per post, and not post several times in a row as well.  Wait for people to react.

Okay, sorry. I'm not trying to make people mad or spam or anything or flood the thread. Sorry.

[wrightway]

I think you came after the wonder that was the old social justice thread got tossed to the lox'd box, post human. If you're bored it's still there to read. 300 pages of "O_o how crazy are you people?!"

[PosthumanHeresy]

I think you came after the wonder that was the old social justice thread got tossed to the lox'd box, post human. If you're bored it's still there to read. 300 pages of "O_o how crazy are you people?!"

Yeah. June 30th 2013. Yes, I post a lot. I don't have much to do and everything interests me. On the downside, I have so many SJW images on standby already. Sounds like a fun read, just afraid of how many I'd have open, lol. I currently have 30 tabs or so of various things. Ten are images, and two are anti-SJW blogs.

[Thejebusfire]

Not trying to sound like a dick in any way, but could you possibly cut down the number of things you post? It's gotten difficult to read and discuss. (I really mean this in the nicest way possible.)

I'm going to have to agree here. Just try to take it down a couple of notches.

Anyway, back on topic:



Guys don't call her cis! It lessens her victimhood status.

[QueenofHearts]

* QueenofHearts facepalms

I don't see them discriminated the same, but I don't feel it's right to immediately go "Nope, doesn't exist" without research. The human mind is too complex to just "Nope, doesn't exist" without research. Therefore, until it is scientifically disproven, I will see it as any other mental differentiation from what is seen as the norm, because I have no proof it does not exist. Due to the fact we can't read minds, when it comes to psychology, the burden of proof is on the person saying something does not exist.

The two are nothing alike. Transsexuality is very real and (I'm just gonna say it) theriantropy is just a result of an over active imagination. Second, the burden of proof is on them to prove it's legit. You know, get recognition from the general body of psychology and what not... Putting the burden of proof on the person saying otherwise legitimizes all those nuts on Tumblr with their headmates who identify as the Sun and Hulk Hogan.

It also makes resident therians feel awkward and resident QueenofHearts angry.

Oh, wow, take a little potshot at me. Say "it makes Queen angry" instead of "it's offensive to trans-people." Whatever. I am angry. I told you in Random's thread that saying "I can't help it, I want to be a mogwai, otherkin struggles" would cause people to compare otherkinism to gender dysphoria. Compare overactive imaginations to real life threatening problems and that this diminishes the severity of gender dysphoria. You said otherwise... And here we are.

[PosthumanHeresy]

But, wouldn't your identity be oppressed? I'd love for her to meet this crazy:

* QueenofHearts facepalms

I don't see them discriminated the same, but I don't feel it's right to immediately go "Nope, doesn't exist" without research. The human mind is too complex to just "Nope, doesn't exist" without research. Therefore, until it is scientifically disproven, I will see it as any other mental differentiation from what is seen as the norm, because I have no proof it does not exist. Due to the fact we can't read minds, when it comes to psychology, the burden of proof is on the person saying something does not exist.

The two are nothing alike. Transsexuality is very real and (I'm just gonna say it) theriantropy is just a result of an over active imagination. Second, the burden of proof is on them to prove it's legit. You know, get recognition from the general body of psychology and what not... Putting the burden of proof on the person saying otherwise legitimizes all those nuts on Tumblr with their headmates who identify as the Sun and Hulk Hogan.

It also makes resident therians feel awkward and resident QueenofHearts angry.

Oh, wow, take a little potshot at me. Say "it makes Queen angry" instead of "it's offensive to trans-people." Whatever. I am angry. I told you in Random's thread that saying "I can't help it, I want to be a mogwai, otherkin struggles" would cause people to compare otherkinism to gender dysphoria. Compare overactive imaginations to real life threatening problems and that this diminishes the severity of gender dysphoria. You said otherwise... And here we are.

DID is a real mental illness. Has it become a fad? Yes. This has happened before, right after Sybil came out. I'm still not going to dismiss the idea that someone might have a different mental wiring than the usual without proof, because no matter who you do that to, it is unfair. It might be an overactive imagination, or it might be a different mental wiring. Many mental disorders/syndromes/illnesses (I dislike using the terms mental disorder or mental illness when talking about this stuff, because it's just offensive) are cultural or non-genetic or a mixture of culture, genes and upbringing. Chances are, therans are a mix of culture and upbringing. That does not make it any less legitimate as a mental condition. If someone legitimately believes that they are mentally another species, then they are not "normal" (whatever that is). That is just how psychology works. Therans are still less odd than the Jumping Frenchmen of Maine, and that seriously happened. If that can happen, I don't think therans are too unlikely. That being said, they have not nearly faced the kind of discrimination transexuals have. They have not faced the struggles or trials that transexuals have, nor the hatred or bigoty. The ones that think they have are friggin wrong as hell. And, the general body of psychology needs to be aware of it to study it, and there have been one or two studies that did support it's existence. It's just not really noticed yet. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. As for otherkin, yeah, way less likely. Queen, I legitimately respect you, and I don't plan on trying to insult you. I wasn't aiming to in the first place.

[Witchyjoshy]

Oh, wow, take a little potshot at me.

Actually I was being respectful to the fact that it makes you angry, and thus is not a subject to be broached carelessly like Posthuman did.

You as a person, the whole package.

There's also the fact that there's other trans people on this forum who aren't offended by otherkin so "it's offensive to transpeople" isn't exactly an accurate statement.

However, if you want to interpret a statement indicating that I'm thinking of your emotions as an attack, feel free.  Obviously I respect you far more than you respect me.

Regardless, I'm not here to have a pissing contest.

[Otend]

i'm going to use my bimonthly post to say this

not this shit again, you guys.

seriously, we've already had this argument, and you're going to ruin a perfectly decent thread dedicated to mocking people so that we can have an argument repeated from months ago.  we will go through the same motions, the same people will shout, et cetera.  let's just call it quits now so we can resume laughing at people.

[The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist]

It's worth pointing out that you don't need to read minds to test the legitimacy of either transsexualism or "transspeciesism". Among other things, we have MRI scans showing that trans people have brain structure more closely resembling that of their identified gender than their biological sex, so it follows that we should be able to do the same with therians; yet no one has managed to produce any evidence of a human with non-human brain structure.

Edit: Also, most of the evidence points to transsexualism being neurological in origin, rather than psychological (not that there aren't psychological aspects; it's just that the root cause seems to be primarily in how the brain develops).

[Witchyjoshy]

Yeah I don't believe transspecies are a legitimate thing either.  Every human when forming has the capacity for the hormones/brain pathing/etc of either gender.  They don't have the capacity or the hormones/brain pathing/etc of non-human animals.  That's just ridiculous.

[PosthumanHeresy]

It's worth pointing out that you don't need to read minds to test the legitimacy of either transsexualism or "transspeciesism". Among other things, we have MRI scans showing that trans people have brain structure more closely resembling that of their identified gender than their biological sex, so it follows that we should be able to do the same with therians; yet no one has managed to produce any evidence of a human with non-human brain structure.

Edit: Also, most of the evidence points to transsexualism being neurological in origin, rather than psychological.

Well, it would be interesting to do MRI scans on therans. And, that seems pretty logical, since it is pretty much an alternate wiring. I'm really not looking for a debate on the origins of various mental conditions, but if theranophy (wait, Chrome recognizes it as a word? Huh) is not neurological, than the best description I can come up with it is the delusion that one is an animal trapped in a human body. The problem I have is that general society has stigmatized the word "delusion", and I generally think, if it is real (that is, if it happens in a reasonable number of people, is consistently described with similar symptoms and cannot be proven to be made up, which theranophy fits), then it is harmless, if abnormal. In my honest opinion, it's a non-genetic mental disorder, and I feel like the causes may be connected to a general outcast nature, with a disconnect from humanity forming. But, again, this requires tons of research. That being said, with it existing across multiple nations, in people of various genders, ages, races, upbringings and mental states, but with a similar background and generation, it seems that it's most likely induced, not genetic.

Yeah I don't believe transspecies are a legitimate thing either.  Every human when forming has the capacity for the hormones/brain pathing/etc of either gender.  They don't have the capacity or the hormones/brain pathing/etc of non-human animals.  That's just ridiculous.

I agree. Ergo, not neurological.

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[The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist]

Yeah I don't believe transspecies are a legitimate thing either.  Every human when forming has the capacity for the hormones/brain pathing/etc of either gender.  They don't have the capacity or the hormones/brain pathing/etc of non-human animals.  That's just ridiculous.

Precisely. I can buy that someone might psychologically identify with an animal for whatever reason, but it's not at all the same thing as being trans gender.

[PosthumanHeresy]

Yeah I don't believe transspecies are a legitimate thing either.  Every human when forming has the capacity for the hormones/brain pathing/etc of either gender.  They don't have the capacity or the hormones/brain pathing/etc of non-human animals.  That's just ridiculous.

Precisely. I can buy that someone might psychologically identify with an animal for whatever reason, but it's not at all the same thing as being trans gender.

I agree. When I compare the two, I am simply saying the both occur in the mind. That being said, I believe therans exist due to sociological factors, not genetic. Many mental disorders are sociological, and even local/cultural. Things like the Middle Ages "Glass delusion", for example. Quoting Wikipedia here: "The glass delusion was an external manifestation of a psychiatric disorder recorded in Europe in the late Middle Ages (15th to 17th centuries).[1] People feared that they were made of glass “and therefore likely to shatter into pieces”. One famous early sufferer was King Charles VI of France who refused to allow people to touch him, and wore reinforced clothing to protect himself from accidental “shattering”."

Now, this shares traits with theranophy. First off, it is a disorder that has people believing that they are something they scientifically cannot be, despite all the obvious evidence. Additionally, it was almost exclusively found in the wealthy and educated, much in the same way theranophy is found amongst outcasts and misfits typically. So, Queen, you are right. Transsexualism and theranophy are not similar. Somehow, I think this might piss more people off, but this is what I feel is the most logical conclusion. That said, I have no problem with therans, and don't hate them for existing. Trying to act like they're a vastly hated group, on the other hand, triggers my "crowbar to the knees" reflex.

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[The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist]

Glad we're all on the same page, then.