FSTDT Forums
Community => Entertainment and Television => Topic started by: Ultimate Paragon on January 09, 2014, 03:55:47 pm
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Some people are complaining that the Disney movie Frozen is racist for two main reasons, and both of these reasons are bullshit. The first "reason" is because it doesn't have any POC. Well, duh! It takes place in 19th Century Scandinavia! What do you expect? The second is that the Sámi are "whitewashed". To which I respond, have you ever seen a Sámi person in your life? They look pretty damn white to me!
I'm gonna take this as yet another sign that the Social Justice movement has gone wildly off the rails.
You can read more about this "controversy" here: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/disneys-frozen-race-controversy
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That's Tumblr for you, finding controversies everywhere they look.
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I just don't get how these morons seem to assume that all persecuted people are dark-skinned. I'm pretty sure the Irish and the Poles would have some choice words about that...
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Actually most Sami are dark skinned
Same general stock as Inuits
Also the time period was never stated
But hey whatever lifts your skirt (I hate the phrase floats your boat)
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Actually most Sami are dark skinned
Same general stock as Inuits
Also the time period was never stated
But hey whatever lifts your skirt (I hate the phrase floats your boat)
Really? I'm pretty sure this girl would say otherwise.
(http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/11/sami-reindeer-herders/img/01-ella-li-spik-670.jpg)
Oh, and this was also the case back then.
(http://static.littlescandinavian.com/2012/01/samechildren.jpg)
True, there are some who look like this:
(http://hittaupplevelse.se/wp-content/uploads/old_uploads/AVN_Kautokeinof_062006_99_0.jpg)
But I don't think they're the majority.
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Actually most Sami are dark skinned
Same general stock as Inuits
Also the time period was never stated
But hey whatever lifts your skirt (I hate the phrase floats your boat)
Can I ask what you don't like about floats your boat?
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few things its not just sami its a general trend of people ignoring POC that have been in Europe for centuries
like how many movies after movies ignore POC in Europe
keep mind that right now that is the main argument against immigrants is that Arabs are not Europeans or why can't Turkey enter the EU
Besides would it have effected the movie in any way if their boyfriends were dark skined
I dont like float your boat since truthfully there are better ways and worse ways of floating a boat
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few things its not just sami its a general trend of people ignoring POC that have been in Europe for centuries
like how many movies after movies ignore POC in Europe
keep mind that right now that is the main argument against immigrants is that Arabs are not Europeans or why can't Turkey enter the EU
Besides would it have effected the movie in any way if their boyfriends were dark skined
Well, most actual Sami people don't seem to mind.
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I understand that
Just one of those things where I'm fed up with the general erasure of POCin Europe
Besides in between animated movies Disney thought it would be a good idea to give the native american role toDepp
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Besides in between animated movies Disney thought it would be a good idea to give the native american role toDepp
Now that was racist.
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The Sami have always had a mix of Inuit-like and Caucasian features.
A group of people showing varying Sami feautes, c. 1900:
(http://oi44.tinypic.com/2zrncpu.jpg)
Paler Sami man in 1886:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Sj%C3%B8samisk_Mann_Finnmark_Norge_Ivar_Samuelsen_1884_av_Bonaparte.jpg/340px-Sj%C3%B8samisk_Mann_Finnmark_Norge_Ivar_Samuelsen_1884_av_Bonaparte.jpg)
Inuit-looking Sami in 1884:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Sea_sami_man.jpg)
Sami women in the 1890s, demonstrating a variety of features and complexions:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Three_S%C3%A1mi_Lapp_women%2C_c1890s.jpg/591px-Three_S%C3%A1mi_Lapp_women%2C_c1890s.jpg)
Granted, they have gotten much paler on average as group over the years due to mixing with other European ethnicities (as well as spending less time outdoors in the sun due to changing lifestyles), and the character in the movie isn't really an accurate portrayal of what a typical Sami would look like then or now (not so much because of complexion as his facial structure/features, as well as inaccuracies in the cultural portrayal), but the idea that they were all dark and had heavily Asian features in the 19th century is incorrect, and a complete erasure of Sami history.
few things its not just sami its a general trend of people ignoring POC that have been in Europe for centuries
like how many movies after movies ignore POC in Europe
While it's absolutely true that people frequently ignore the fact that a variety of different racial groups have lived in Europe for ages, calling the Sami "POC" is a heavily Americentric view of the issue. You're looking at things through the American lens of "white/not white is all that matters", which doesn't accurately represent majority/minority dynamics in other parts of the world. The Sami typically view themselves as a different ethnic group, not race, than white Scandinavians, and while some of them would be considered "POC" in the US due to possessing more Inuit-like features (while others would be viewed as 100% white), it's ethnicity & culture -- not race -- that's the driving force behind Sami issues.
Not to mention that "POC" is frequently viewed as an offensive term outside of the US, so using it to refer to ethnicities/cultures that mostly exist as distinct groups outside of the US is generally not a good idea.
That being said, I do agree that he was an inaccurate portrayal of what a 19th century Sami would have looked like, just not for the reasons SJWs keep giving.
Besides in between animated movies Disney thought it would be a good idea to give the native american role toDepp
Now that was racist.
Indeed. Same with what's-his-name playing the werewolf in Twilight. They wouldn't cast a white guy to play someone who's black or Asian, so why is it okay for them to continue to hire white actors to play Natives?
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Besides in between animated movies Disney thought it would be a good idea to give the native american role toDepp
Now that was racist.
I agree. I like Depp quite a bit, but the role of a Native American should be given to a freaking Native American.
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I thought Depp WAS part native american.
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ARen't we all native american part seriusly i hear it all the time im not racist im part native american pretty much would rather they were sami in the movie
also @Twilight
for some reason Meyer didnt want to make up a tribe she decided to take a tribe that lives in that area and make up history for thim
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I thought Depp WAS part native american.
To quote him, "I guess I have some Native American [in me] somewhere down the line. My great-grandmother was quite a bit of Native American, she grew up Cherokee or maybe Creek Indian. Makes sense in terms of coming from Kentucky, which is rife with Cherokee and Creek." Sounds more like the standard blood myth most families have than a genuine claim (not knowing which tribe you descended from is a pretty big red flag), but even if it's true, having a distant Native ancestor doesn't really make him native in any meaningful way.
My own grandpa was 50/50 French and Huron -- something I can actually confirm based on what I've learned about his life from him and my mom, his ancestry being highly visible in his features, and the birth records I dug up while researching my family tree -- and would, by any sane definition, qualify as Native, but with only a 1/8th BQ and no real connection to the culture, I wouldn't call myself Native.
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Thank god, this has been absent for the most part from my Tumblr dash...
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This whole thing reminds me of the Speedy Gonzales controversy, except somehow even dumber.
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I might be racist, but I really don't like the term POC being used to describe the Sami. I mean some Sami are darker skinned than others but using the term POC in particular seems a bit odd.
It just creates this image that only people who aren't "white" face discrimination. If your group is concidered discriminated then you are automatically "POC" or reversely if you "look white" then you no one believes that you are really a victim of discrimination. And I don't even know where the limit goes on who is "white" and who is POC. Are asians POC? I mean I know that Asian countries have discrimination against certain ethnic/national groups. In China the Uyghur face racism but if the people opressing them aren't white does that even count?
OR maybe I'm just wrong.
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Its a little complicated I could get into it but its usually lighter skinned over darker skinned just in general even in conflicts between other non whites (North South Indians or Arabs over Africans)
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Colourism is definitely a thing, but it doesn't nullify discrimination faced by a light-skinned group of people.
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I know i said usually
Also often intraracial conflicts were either created or exasperated by external sources like Belgium giving power to Tutsis
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Someone on tumblr pointed out that there are actually darker skinned people visible in various parts of the movie, primarily during the coronation scene. They had screenshots to back them up.
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This whole "controversy" is a microcosm of everything wrong with the Social Justice movement. Claiming to speak on behalf of a particular group without getting their opinions? Baseless accusations? Pulling "facts" out of your ass? You name it, it's here.
On the bright side, this whole debacle has produced pretty good fanart of the characters having different ethnicities. I guess every dark cloud has a silver lining.
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On the Frozen fan art based on different ethnicities: The best of those I've seen was a Central Asian (or Asia-Russia) Frozen. Come on, Disney, you did this with The Princess and the Frog and that worked out greatly with a lot of people.
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I just figure what does it matter what skin colors characters in a Disney Kids Movie have. There are more important things to worry about.
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Saw this on facebook this morning:
(https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/65593_588035037977634_1672719261_n.jpg)
Cute, though not actually true. The Princess and the Frog had the princess saving the prince.
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Everyone forgets that one including Disney
Seriously Tiana gets way less merch
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The funny thing is, Disney already did a movie with the Circumpolar-Indigenous characters these morons desperately wanted to see:
(http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BOTA2NzM4MjY1NV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNzkzNzQyMQ@@._V1_SX214_.jpg)
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It's not about racism per se; it's about the fact that very few Disney films star POC. When kids have over 100 films to choose from, and only 12 of them star people who aren't white, it can feel like "I'm not normal because I don't look like those people."
I had that same feeling with Barbie as a kid. I felt like my brown hair and eyes were "ugly" because they didn't look ike my dolls.
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Saw this on facebook this morning:
*image*
Cute, though not actually true. The Princess and the Frog had the princess saving the prince.
Plus Brave, if you count Pixar.
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Besides in between animated movies Disney thought it would be a good idea to give the native american role toDepp
Not only that but they painted his face to make him look like a racist stereotype.
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Yeah. With Lone Ranger the film flopped and yeah they made Brother Bear but you know they have so little merch for that one its been forgotten
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It's not about racism per se; it's about the fact that very few Disney films star POC. When kids have over 100 films to choose from, and only 12 of them star people who aren't white, it can feel like "I'm not normal because I don't look like those people."
I had that same feeling with Barbie as a kid. I felt like my brown hair and eyes were "ugly" because they didn't look ike my dolls.
This is more of the primary concern. To me the problem is that Disney (perhaps unwittingly) thinks that a character of color cannot find sympathy among American audience, despite the fact that America's demographic is shifting away from the WASP arch-type. I'm fine with the lead in Frozen being white, but you could add some color too.
To their credit, I think Disney tried to do that with The Princess and the Frog, but unfortunately it was in a medium that isn't copping well with the 3D fad.
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I wonder if Disney is really worried since having a whtie guy play a native american did wonders for Lone Ranger's opening weekend in that it had an awful one
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I totally forgot that they produced Lone Ranger. The one criticism of Disney that I do find unfounded is where folks say that they put too much sexism in Han Chinese culture in Mulan. While it's true that there are inaccuracies in the portrayal of sexism at the time period, there was sexism and the sexism is document in history. Ironically, it was the "Huns" (actually the Xiongnu) who were more sex equal.
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Besides in between animated movies Disney thought it would be a good idea to give the native american role toDepp
Not only that but they painted his face to make him look like a racist stereotype.
As I recall, the costume was based off a painting done by a guy who had never actually seen any Natives in real life.
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I did wonder why they called them the Huns they were more focused on being dead by the time of Mulan
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I did wonder why they called them the Huns they were more focused on being dead by the time of Mulan
Maybe it's because "Xiongnu" doesn't have the same ring to it.
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Let's get down to business to defeat the Xiongnu
Did they send me daughters when I asked for...
I got nothin'.
But seriously, I do think Disney needs more diversity.
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Let's get down to business to defeat the Xiongnu
Did they send me daughters when I asked for...
I got nothin'.
But seriously, I do think Disney needs more diversity.
You're probably right. However, I think the way to go about it is to adapt folktales from different parts of the world. I'd like to see a Disney movie set in West Africa, or India, or New Zealand (before it was discovered by Europeans).
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I think they are doing a Polynesian movie
I personally want to redeem for mulan II and have a pro arranged marriage movie in Inida
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have a pro arranged marriage movie in Inida
Why?
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Mulan II had an anti movie and it was awful and most people in India are quite happy so maybe they could pull it off?
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Mulan II had an anti movie and it was awful and most people in India are quite happy so maybe they could pull it off?
...It's a straight to DVD Disney sequel. Of course it's going to be shite.
Not to mention, the idea that someone else has the right to decide who you marry is infinitely more repugnant than anything in any existing Disney movie. It makes the usual damsel in distress of the original Disney films seem outright progressive in comparison.
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no i mean modern india
most of the time they meet and liek each other
I dunno maybe im talking out my ass
forget i said anything
hides
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure there'd be backlash if Disney were to do a movie supporting arranged marriages, and rightfully so.
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no i mean modern india
most of the time they meet and liek each other
I dunno maybe im talking out my ass
forget i said anything
hides
Assuming you are saying what I think you're saying (which is hard because your post is basically a haiku to illiteracy and incomprehensibility) but you will find that those modern 'arranged marriages' aren't really arranged marriages. In that the prospective couple meets, courts and decides independently on whether or not they get married. They are really now more introduced marriages, just instead of using e-harmony their aunts know each other.
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Basically that sorry
hides
IM NOT SMART
stop being critical of my grammar
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Mulan II had an anti movie and it was awful and most people in India are quite happy so maybe they could pull it off?
...It's a straight to DVD Disney sequel. Of course it's going to be shite.
Not to mention, the idea that someone else has the right to decide who you marry is infinitely more repugnant than anything in any existing Disney movie. It makes the usual damsel in distress of the original Disney films seem outright progressive in comparison.
Be fair. Mulan II was a LOT better than many other direct-to-video sequels *coughcoughReturnOfJafarcoughcough* and, up to the deus ex ending, makes sense as a sequel. The real problem was that the writers couldn't figure out a way out of the sad ending they'd set up.
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Arranged marriage issues aside, a Disney movie set in India would be really cool. I'd love to see an Indian Disney princess.
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Mulan II had an anti movie and it was awful and most people in India are quite happy so maybe they could pull it off?
...It's a straight to DVD Disney sequel. Of course it's going to be shite.
Not to mention, the idea that someone else has the right to decide who you marry is infinitely more repugnant than anything in any existing Disney movie. It makes the usual damsel in distress of the original Disney films seem outright progressive in comparison.
Be fair. Mulan II was a LOT better than many other direct-to-video sequels *coughcoughReturnOfJafarcoughcough* and, up to the deus ex ending, makes sense as a sequel. The real problem was that the writers couldn't figure out a way out of the sad ending they'd set up.
Aladdin and the King of Thieves holds a special place in my heart because of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6DIWqh6JUQ
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It's not about racism per se; it's about the fact that very few Disney films star POC. When kids have over 100 films to choose from, and only 12 of them star people who aren't white, it can feel like "I'm not normal because I don't look like those people."
I had that same feeling with Barbie as a kid. I felt like my brown hair and eyes were "ugly" because they didn't look ike my dolls.
This is more of the primary concern. To me the problem is that Disney (perhaps unwittingly) thinks that a character of color cannot find sympathy among American audience, despite the fact that America's demographic is shifting away from the WASP arch-type. I'm fine with the lead in Frozen being white, but you could add some color too.
To their credit, I think Disney tried to do that with The Princess and the Frog, but unfortunately it was in a medium that isn't copping well with the 3D fad.
This is my opinion on the whole Frozen fiasco.
As for Sami being POC, well, that's a bit hard to prove considering that real Sami people come in a fairly wide variety of physical appearances. I also think it's a very US-centric view of race and racism, since racism works a bit differently in Europe. People who are considered "white" in America (such as Irish Travelers) are not be considered "white" (or the closest thing they have to "white") in Europe. You do not have to be part of an American-defined racial minority in order to be subjected to ethnic discrimination, whether in America or anywhere else (though from what I've read it does seem much more extreme in Europe than in the US).
Racialization is something people don't understand is also cultural relative. They also don't understand that being indigenous does not mean "not white". I mean these are indigenous people:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Faroese_girls_in_costume.jpg)
The other problem is that people prose indigenous struggle as a white vs. people of color problem when that is not the case across the world. When you have places like Thailand where the Thai/Siamese are not indigenous people, it becomes evident that people only think of race in a very American context.
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Mulan II had an anti movie and it was awful and most people in India are quite happy so maybe they could pull it off?
...It's a straight to DVD Disney sequel. Of course it's going to be shite.
Not to mention, the idea that someone else has the right to decide who you marry is infinitely more repugnant than anything in any existing Disney movie. It makes the usual damsel in distress of the original Disney films seem outright progressive in comparison.
Be fair. Mulan II was a LOT better than many other direct-to-video sequels *coughcoughReturnOfJafarcoughcough* and, up to the deus ex ending, makes sense as a sequel. The real problem was that the writers couldn't figure out a way out of the sad ending they'd set up.
I've never seen Mulan II, but I actually really loved Return of Jafar.
Though I think as far as good direct-to-video sequels go... Lion King II is my absolute favorite.
Then again I've been as much a Lion King fanboy as I have a Star Fox fanboy.
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to be blunt the question is would it make a difference if say their bfs were black?
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Racialization is something people don't understand is also cultural relative. They also don't understand that being indigenous does not mean "not white".
It's kind of hilarious when people try to paint "the natives" as being universally brown-skinned. Where the hell did they think white people came from? Did they just get teleported in by a bunch of really racist aliens?
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Racialization is something people don't understand is also cultural relative. They also don't understand that being indigenous does not mean "not white".
It's kind of hilarious when people try to paint "the natives" as being universally brown-skinned. Where the hell did they think white people came from? Did they just get teleported in by a bunch of really racist aliens?
There is that theory that white people are descended from aliens.
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And immediately, Katy Perry's E.T. music video comes to mind.
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Tying back to Bambi's post though, remember that what is or isn't "white" in Europe is different from the United States. Remember that not too long ago Irish and Finns weren't white according to Western European standards.
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The USA's (to at least US Tumblr users) way of simplifying racism down to skin colour always makes me laugh.
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The USA's (to at least US Tumblr users) way of simplifying racism down to skin colour always makes me laugh.
It's not even skin colour, it's White vs Non-White. Brown people being racist to people being a different shade of brown, what's that lol?
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Not to mention that "white versus non-white" isn't even the primary social dynamic in some parts of the world. The dominant issue can be caste, ethnicity, nationality, religion, and so on.
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Here's a Sami blogger on this stupidity.
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/679/865/536.png)