Author Topic: What is determinism?  (Read 1590 times)

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Offline R. U. Sirius

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What is determinism?
« on: November 29, 2012, 12:29:53 pm »
Well, I think the thread title sums it up, but I'll expand to make sure my question is clear.

What, exactly, does determinism mean? I've heard it described various ways, from the belief that the past determines the future with no room for deviation (what I call the "Dr. Manhattan position"), to the position that, while the past influences the future, we still have the ability to make free choices within the options presented to us. The latter description often posits that being aware of past influences actually increases our freedom of choice, because we can moderate how much past influences affect our choices.

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Offline myusername

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Re: What is determinism?
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2012, 12:42:32 pm »
Philosophically, there's 2 positions on the notion of free will: Determinism and Libertarianism

Determinism is generally belived in by naturalists that would say that everything is based upon cause and effect, so everything is determined in the sense that if we knew the exact information of the position of the universe now we could predict the future with certainity.*

Libertarianism is generally a position put forward by those who think we have a soul and thus our soul therefore interacts with our bodies to make choices, ie. things are not molecularly determind the way they are in scenario 1.

Whether or not you can consider determinism and freedom compatible really depend on the notion of the term "freedom" that you're using, hence the ambiguity. Some have argued for the notion of Compatibilism, which argues that we still have "free will" in a sense even if everything is determined, because we still make choices.

* I'm ignoring the clusterfuck that is Quantum Physics.

Offline Material Defender

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Re: What is determinism?
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2012, 02:57:44 pm »
Quantum Physics basically threw a wrench in the old Newtonian idea of Determinism, since there is inherent uncertainty in Quantum Physics regarding the exact position or velocity of objects. The closer you come to determining one, the farther you are from determine the other. Sounds counter-intuitive, but this is Quantum Physics. Where the colors rule and gravity doesn't seem to exist.
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Offline Old Viking

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Re: What is determinism?
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2012, 05:44:40 pm »
The precise meaning of determinism has yet to be determined.
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Offline R. U. Sirius

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Re: What is determinism?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2012, 08:10:11 pm »
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Offline Shano

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Re: What is determinism?
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2012, 09:48:04 pm »
Quantum Physics basically threw a wrench in the old Newtonian idea of Determinism, since there is inherent uncertainty in Quantum Physics regarding the exact position or velocity of objects. The closer you come to determining one, the farther you are from determine the other. Sounds counter-intuitive, but this is Quantum Physics. Where the colors rule and gravity doesn't seem to exist.

Technically it's called Laplace Determinism and not Newtonian.
Quantum mechanics is also deterministic - the knowledge of the universe's state at one moment determines the probabilities of the different outcomes at a later time (but not the actual outcome). Those probabilities are however completely and fully predetermined. How the outcome is established is still an area where there is still some debate (the so called collapse of the probability function/matrix - things like the Copenhagen convention or the many worlds).
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Offline Hoplite

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Re: What is determinism?
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2012, 08:53:17 pm »
Have not read this thread yet, but this much I know: determinism is basically what Schopenhauer's tenets are, that you as a person were predetermined to be the way you are, without much control on your part. That is in opposition to free-will (Hume, Nietzsche, Locke,) and compatibilism (Comte.) In recent times, Skinner was the last of the most influental determinists to have a strong effect on education and policies at that time until it was criticized by Chomsky, and it gradually reduced in impact until today where free will and compatibilism are more dominant, with determinism reduced largely to genetic, biological and environmental impacts.  IMHO, no one of these is the be-all, and all three play a part in varying degrees in any human situation.

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« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 08:54:56 pm by Hoplite »
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