What I don't get is why they even bothered. There are already plenty of legitimate reasons to hate Antifa, you don't have to make things up.Thank you for reminding us that extreme centrism is still OK Lana.
What I don't get is why they even bothered. There are already plenty of legitimate reasons to hate Antifa, you don't have to make things up.Thank you for reminding us that extreme centrism is still OK Lana.
Now watch thread degenerate into shouting match about virtues/vices of Antifa. MOAR DRAMA!
What I don't get is why they even bothered. There are already plenty of legitimate reasons to hate Antifa, you don't have to make things up.Thank you for reminding us that extreme centrism is still OK Lana.
Now watch thread degenerate into shouting match about virtues/vices of Antifa. MOAR DRAMA!
Yeah, it's so unreasonable to denounce politically-motivated violence (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/08/28/black-clad-antifa-attack-right-wing-demonstrators-in-berkeley/)./s
Direct question: do you think violence against peaceful protesters is ever acceptable?
Well no but we kinda had a whole world war about why being a Nazi is bad.
Ironbite-and I don't really think Nazis are peaceful protesters by any stretch.
What I don't get is why they even bothered. There are already plenty of legitimate reasons to hate Antifa, you don't have to make things up.Thank you for reminding us that extreme centrism is still OK Lana.
Now watch thread degenerate into shouting match about virtues/vices of Antifa. MOAR DRAMA!
Yeah, it's so unreasonable to denounce politically-motivated violence (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/08/28/black-clad-antifa-attack-right-wing-demonstrators-in-berkeley/)./s
Direct question: do you think violence against peaceful protesters is ever acceptable?
One dead in Charlottesville, two dead in Portland, I don't remember how many dead from that one shooting in Oklahoma, can we please be done pretending the people at these rallies are peaceful?
Direct Answer, nope but the Charlotsville goons weren't peaceful. Nazis are not peaceful.What I don't get is why they even bothered. There are already plenty of legitimate reasons to hate Antifa, you don't have to make things up.Thank you for reminding us that extreme centrism is still OK Lana.
Now watch thread degenerate into shouting match about virtues/vices of Antifa. MOAR DRAMA!
Yeah, it's so unreasonable to denounce politically-motivated violence (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/08/28/black-clad-antifa-attack-right-wing-demonstrators-in-berkeley/)./s
Direct question: do you think violence against peaceful protesters is ever acceptable?
Direct Answer, nope but the Charlotsville goons weren't peaceful. Nazis are not peaceful.What I don't get is why they even bothered. There are already plenty of legitimate reasons to hate Antifa, you don't have to make things up.Thank you for reminding us that extreme centrism is still OK Lana.
Now watch thread degenerate into shouting match about virtues/vices of Antifa. MOAR DRAMA!
Yeah, it's so unreasonable to denounce politically-motivated violence (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/08/28/black-clad-antifa-attack-right-wing-demonstrators-in-berkeley/)./s
Direct question: do you think violence against peaceful protesters is ever acceptable?
Source: one squished lady and World War fuckin' two!
If law enforcement isn't stopping them, sure.Direct Answer, nope but the Charlotsville goons weren't peaceful. Nazis are not peaceful.What I don't get is why they even bothered. There are already plenty of legitimate reasons to hate Antifa, you don't have to make things up.Thank you for reminding us that extreme centrism is still OK Lana.
Now watch thread degenerate into shouting match about virtues/vices of Antifa. MOAR DRAMA!
Yeah, it's so unreasonable to denounce politically-motivated violence (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/08/28/black-clad-antifa-attack-right-wing-demonstrators-in-berkeley/)./s
Direct question: do you think violence against peaceful protesters is ever acceptable?
Source: one squished lady and World War fuckin' two!
Another direct question: are preemptive strikes against Nazis justified?
If law enforcement isn't stopping them, sure.Direct Answer, nope but the Charlotsville goons weren't peaceful. Nazis are not peaceful.What I don't get is why they even bothered. There are already plenty of legitimate reasons to hate Antifa, you don't have to make things up.Thank you for reminding us that extreme centrism is still OK Lana.
Now watch thread degenerate into shouting match about virtues/vices of Antifa. MOAR DRAMA!
Yeah, it's so unreasonable to denounce politically-motivated violence (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/08/28/black-clad-antifa-attack-right-wing-demonstrators-in-berkeley/)./s
Direct question: do you think violence against peaceful protesters is ever acceptable?
Source: one squished lady and World War fuckin' two!
Another direct question: are preemptive strikes against Nazis justified?
They didn't in Berkeley and they held back in Charlottesville too. You want people not to take preemptive action against Nazis, get the cops to make sure we all know the rule of law is in effect and applies to everyone-otherwise, don't blame people if they take the law into their own hands!
Direct Answer, nope but the Charlotsville goons weren't peaceful. Nazis are not peaceful.What I don't get is why they even bothered. There are already plenty of legitimate reasons to hate Antifa, you don't have to make things up.Thank you for reminding us that extreme centrism is still OK Lana.
Now watch thread degenerate into shouting match about virtues/vices of Antifa. MOAR DRAMA!
Yeah, it's so unreasonable to denounce politically-motivated violence (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/08/28/black-clad-antifa-attack-right-wing-demonstrators-in-berkeley/)./s
Direct question: do you think violence against peaceful protesters is ever acceptable?
Source: one squished lady and World War fuckin' two!
Another direct question: are preemptive strikes against Nazis justified?
If law enforcement isn't stopping them, sure.Actually, the cops did the best they could with what they had. Crowd control, especially with something like Charlottesville, where the cops are undermanned, undertrained and absolutely fucked if the crowd gets properly violent, is less about stopping them and more about containing and minimising the damage.
If the best they had was letting a kid get beat repeatedly with metal poles a few metres from a police station then their best isn't good enough.If law enforcement isn't stopping them, sure.Actually, the cops did the best they could with what they had. Crowd control, especially with something like Charlottesville, where the cops are undermanned, undertrained and absolutely fucked if the crowd gets properly violent, is less about stopping them and more about containing and minimising the damage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT9bit2-1pg
Direct Answer, nope but the Charlotsville goons weren't peaceful. Nazis are not peaceful.What I don't get is why they even bothered. There are already plenty of legitimate reasons to hate Antifa, you don't have to make things up.Thank you for reminding us that extreme centrism is still OK Lana.
Now watch thread degenerate into shouting match about virtues/vices of Antifa. MOAR DRAMA!
Yeah, it's so unreasonable to denounce politically-motivated violence (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/08/28/black-clad-antifa-attack-right-wing-demonstrators-in-berkeley/)./s
Direct question: do you think violence against peaceful protesters is ever acceptable?
Source: one squished lady and World War fuckin' two!
Another direct question: are preemptive strikes against Nazis justified?
Wasn't really pre-emptive considering that the "Unite the right" fellas were doing drive by shootings and attacked a church before there was any violence from the counter protestors.
Another direct question: are preemptive strikes against Nazis justified?
I wasn't talking about Charlottesville. Where did you get the impression that I was?DI-RECT QUESTION Lana, didn't you just pepper me with a bunch of direct questions in response to what I said about Charlottesville?
With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.
QuoteWith the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.
QuoteWith the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.
You're right. Let's just let Nazis keep killing people.
If you debate an idea, you imply it is worth considering, worth debating. If you allow rallies where chants of "Jews will not replace us" are shouted, you imply that it is an okay opinion to have, and thereby normalize it. If you normalize it, people will stop being horrified at it. The edges near to it will gravitate towards it. And they will recruit more nazis. They will grow their ranks. And then we have WW2 era germany all over again. Nip. It. In. The. Fucking. Bud.You can't do that. We live in a society where everyone has free speech. This is a very good thing. While you do have to put up with right wingers (or "nazis", as I guess they're totally a German supremacist political party from the 30's and 40's) and other people whose opinions you don't like saying whatever it is they want to say, it also means you and those you agree with can say whatever the fuck you want, regardless of who else is offended.
I don't know, I must've missed that one.
In any case though, I'm not saying they should be ignored just because they're not the same people as actual Nazis. That's kind of a non-sequitor, and it's not as though Nazis have a monopoly on genocide and fascism in the first place. It just annoys me equating modern day wingnuts with Nazis in the same way that referring to earphones as "headphones" or saying "irregardless" gets on my tits.
However someone who does want entire categories of people exterminated might not be a Nazi exactly but...is that kind of Nazi enough to at least warrant a raised eyebrow or two?Obviously it warrants a raised eyebrow or two regardless of what you call it. As I've been trying to say, "not a Nazi" does not mean "not a concern". They're two completely separate issues.
If it goose-steps like a Nazi, wears jackboots like a Nazi, and salutes like a Nazi...
Whatever they're calling themselves. Murderous fuckers are murderous fuckers and self defence is entirely justified against what they do!
Whatever they're calling themselves. Murderous fuckers are murderous fuckers and self defence is entirely justified against what they do!
Self-defence, certainly.
Or let's look at it pragmatically. What, exactly, did punching Spencer accomplish? Aside from raising his profile?
Also, it scared a lot of the fascists into hiding for a time. They NEED a public platform to spread their ideas, and they won't get it if they're too scared to go out.Or let's look at it pragmatically. What, exactly, did punching Spencer accomplish? Aside from raising his profile?
Catharsis. So much catharsis.
Also, it scared a lot of the fascists into hiding for a time. They NEED a public platform to spread their ideas, and they won't get it if they're too scared to go out.Or let's look at it pragmatically. What, exactly, did punching Spencer accomplish? Aside from raising his profile?
Catharsis. So much catharsis.
Well, unfortunately, thanks to this little thing known as the Second Amendment, armed mobs are rather tougher to deal with preemptively without violating civil liberties in the US than they would be in other countries.
Up here, I'd have no problem with a government seeking an injunction allowing police to confiscate weapons from protesters going to rallies that might turn violent.
Welp, the far right doesn't give a toss if you're in favor of peaceful solutions. They'll gas or lynch you regardless.
And if the law won't protect left wing protesters from the right what choice do they have but counter-violence?
Well, unfortunately, thanks to this little thing known as the Second Amendment, armed mobs are rather tougher to deal with preemptively without violating civil liberties in the US than they would be in other countries.
Up here, I'd have no problem with a government seeking an injunction allowing police to confiscate weapons from protesters going to rallies that might turn violent.
Well, unfortunately, thanks to this little thing known as the Second Amendment, armed mobs are rather tougher to deal with preemptively without violating civil liberties in the US than they would be in other countries.
Up here, I'd have no problem with a government seeking an injunction allowing police to confiscate weapons from protesters going to rallies that might turn violent.
Or, just put anyone that comes openly armed with things like torches, knives, and firearms in the drunk tank for the night. You can assemble peacefully, but if you want to have an armed mob, you and your buddies can cool your cunts in a couple of jail cells for a while. Repeat offenses are, of course, punishable by increasing amounts of bannination from normal people society.
Welp, the far right doesn't give a toss if you're in favor of peaceful solutions. They'll gas or lynch you regardless.
And if the law won't protect left wing protesters from the right what choice do they have but counter-violence?
I have to point out that if you think that the violence from Nazis and the counter protestors is in any way comparable or that "everyone who doesn't like Nazis" can be considered a single group that is responsible for the worst of their members you clearly have not been paying attention.
And is ANTIFA comparable to Neo-Nazis and the other violent hate groups?
Also: no one seems to have acknowledged my earlier post, so rather than an image, i'm just gonna come out and say it. YA CAN'T HAVE A DIALOGUE WITH SOMEONE WHO'S TRYING TO KILL YOU.
Besides, Antifa doesn't just attack right-wing extremists. They've also attacked journalists (http://wtvr.com/2017/08/14/cbs-6-journalist-attack-richmond-protest/), cops (http://us.blastingnews.com/news/2017/06/antifa-member-arrested-for-attacking-police-horse-with-nail-studded-pole-001770187.html), and more moderate right-wingers (http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/08/27/masked_anarchists_disrupt_peaceful_berkeley_protest_attack_pro_trump_demonstrators.html). And since they've openly proclaimed "liberals get the bullet too"...I don't approve of a lot of what Antifa does and while I'm not a full pacifist I condemn any violence that crosses a certain line. I just have to point out that your personal Overton window needs adjusting if you really believe people like the PatriotWarriorMedia guy who got assaulted (in a way that I condemn) are "moderate". Far right is more than just neo-nazis.
At this point people who haven't made up their minds do not have a conscience.Also: no one seems to have acknowledged my earlier post, so rather than an image, i'm just gonna come out and say it. YA CAN'T HAVE A DIALOGUE WITH SOMEONE WHO'S TRYING TO KILL YOU.
I'm not saying to have a dialogue with the people who are trying to kill you. I'm saying to show the people who still have a conscience but haven't made up their minds that WE ARE THE BETTER SIDE.
Besides, Antifa doesn't just attack right-wing extremists. They've also attacked journalists (http://wtvr.com/2017/08/14/cbs-6-journalist-attack-richmond-protest/), cops (http://us.blastingnews.com/news/2017/06/antifa-member-arrested-for-attacking-police-horse-with-nail-studded-pole-001770187.html), and more moderate right-wingers (http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/08/27/masked_anarchists_disrupt_peaceful_berkeley_protest_attack_pro_trump_demonstrators.html). And since they've openly proclaimed "liberals get the bullet too"...I don't approve of a lot of what Antifa does and while I'm not a full pacifist I condemn any violence that crosses a certain line. I just have to point out that your personal Overton window needs adjusting if you really believe people like the PatriotWarriorMedia guy who got assaulted (in a way that I condemn) are "moderate". Far right is more than just neo-nazis.
I'm not exaggerating. That's pretty much what he did. So why are we assuming that violence is the best option?
YA CAN'T HAVE A DIALOGUE WITH SOMEONE WHO'S TRYING TO KILL YOU.
Okay, I have something to ask. You justify preemptive strikes against the alt-right because the police supposedly won't intervene. With that in mind, I have a direct question: do you have any evidence? And I mean evidence of this being a pattern, not the occasional incident.
Oh hey, interesting little factoid (https://www.facebook.com/events/185364111955870/permalink/207694299722851/) from the organizer of the Berkeley rally, Rich Black (http://www.dailycal.org/2017/04/13/free-speech-rally-featuring-controversial-alt-right-speakers-scheduled-saturday/). Archived (http://archive.is/JYBKt#selection-1055.0-1055.10), in case it goes down.QuoteAlthough I cannot and will not justify all of their decisions on that day, it should be known that when the last speaker had finished, per instruction, we gave a public announcement to begin evacuating the area and the Police mobilized against Antifa allowing us to leave. It was also to our understanding that the Police had made assurances to us, granted we would not cross the orange fencing at any time. I understand that this may have been impossible at times. However, if it were not for the Police immediately disarming the first wave of Antifa, whom were in a full charge against us, the event would have been shut down before it began and would have resulted in tremendous blood shed.
So there you have it, yes - above we have evidence that both groups carried weapons but the organizer of the "patriot" rally tells us that A, the cops who were strangely absent during much of the violence of the day mobilized against Antifa for the purpose of allowing the "patriots" and assorted alt righters and Nazis to leave safely and B they disarmed the first wave of Antifa before the violence began. It would seem that the enforcers of the law were more concerned about tipping the balance in the right wingers favor than enforcing the law equitably and professionally.
Somehow I doubt Lana or Conty will be very concerned.
You're right about one thing, though: the Nazis are a domestic problem. A domestic terrorist problem. Oh, if only we had a place where we could send people who form armed mobs for the purpose of frightening a large portion of the populace. Maybe made of concrete and steel, with bars on each room. Too bad we don't have places like that scattered around like jacks.
Okay, I have something to ask. You justify preemptive strikes against the alt-right because the police supposedly won't intervene. With that in mind, I have a direct question: do you have any evidence? And I mean evidence of this being a pattern, not the occasional incident.
We've done this dance before Lana!Oh hey, interesting little factoid (https://www.facebook.com/events/185364111955870/permalink/207694299722851/) from the organizer of the Berkeley rally, Rich Black (http://www.dailycal.org/2017/04/13/free-speech-rally-featuring-controversial-alt-right-speakers-scheduled-saturday/). Archived (http://archive.is/JYBKt#selection-1055.0-1055.10), in case it goes down.QuoteAlthough I cannot and will not justify all of their decisions on that day, it should be known that when the last speaker had finished, per instruction, we gave a public announcement to begin evacuating the area and the Police mobilized against Antifa allowing us to leave. It was also to our understanding that the Police had made assurances to us, granted we would not cross the orange fencing at any time. I understand that this may have been impossible at times. However, if it were not for the Police immediately disarming the first wave of Antifa, whom were in a full charge against us, the event would have been shut down before it began and would have resulted in tremendous blood shed.
So there you have it, yes - above we have evidence that both groups carried weapons but the organizer of the "patriot" rally tells us that A, the cops who were strangely absent during much of the violence of the day mobilized against Antifa for the purpose of allowing the "patriots" and assorted alt righters and Nazis to leave safely and B they disarmed the first wave of Antifa before the violence began. It would seem that the enforcers of the law were more concerned about tipping the balance in the right wingers favor than enforcing the law equitably and professionally.
Somehow I doubt Lana or Conty will be very concerned.
It was the thread where you ended up being called a Nazi water carrying coward by Ironbite. Remember?
And fuck yes, it's a pattern! (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2017/07/police-protecting-170720070852027.html)
You're right about one thing, though: the Nazis are a domestic problem. A domestic terrorist problem. Oh, if only we had a place where we could send people who form armed mobs for the purpose of frightening a large portion of the populace. Maybe made of concrete and steel, with bars on each room. Too bad we don't have places like that scattered around like jacks.
Is it naive to think that that's what jails are for? Or is it excessive to stop considering the ongoing and longstanding use of the state as a tool of oppression "abuse" and start considering the possibility that oppression is actually the state's purpose?
Try reading your links.Lecture me about referencing after you remember to cite an article.at all.
Antifa were the aggressors at Berkeley. Didn't you read the article?There wasn't an article in the OP.
Try reading your links.Lecture me about referencing after you remember to cite an article.at all.
You know the one you called "the article" in reference to some article that wasn't referenced in this thread. Assuming it exists. The one I asked about you that you still haven't bothered to identify.Antifa were the aggressors at Berkeley. Didn't you read the article?There wasn't an article in the OP.
WHAT. FUCKING. ARTICLE. LANA???
Remember I asked you that to deafening silence O Ultimate Paragon of direct questioning, Dynamic Dragon of Citations. Yeah, I found the article despite your inability to cite yourself. From the Washington Post, the same Washington Post who equated Nazis and Anti Nazis. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/yes-antifa-is-the-moral-equivalent-of-neo-nazis/2017/08/30/9a13b2f6-8d00-11e7-91d5-ab4e4bb76a3a_story.html?utm_term=.e3fafb512b1e)
Fuck off!
Yeah, it's so unreasonable to denounce politically-motivated violence (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/08/28/black-clad-antifa-attack-right-wing-demonstrators-in-berkeley/)./s
Direct Answer, nope but the Charlotsville goons weren't peaceful. Nazis are not peaceful.What I don't get is why they even bothered. There are already plenty of legitimate reasons to hate Antifa, you don't have to make things up.Thank you for reminding us that extreme centrism is still OK Lana.
Now watch thread degenerate into shouting match about virtues/vices of Antifa. MOAR DRAMA!
Yeah, it's so unreasonable to denounce politically-motivated violence (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/08/28/black-clad-antifa-attack-right-wing-demonstrators-in-berkeley/)./s
Direct question: do you think violence against peaceful protesters is ever acceptable?
Source: one squished lady and World War fuckin' two!
Gonna ask again. Is your back sore from carrying all that water?
Ironbite-mine would be.
Because you are.
Ironbite-notice nobody else is defending these animals.
Because you are.
Ironbite-notice nobody else is defending these animals.
Well, I sort of am, but only insofar as I defend their right to the peaceful expression of their views because I want to ensure that I can do the same.
Because you are.
Ironbite-notice nobody else is defending these animals.
Well, I sort of am, but only insofar as I defend their right to the peaceful expression of their views because I want to ensure that I can do the same.
On the other hand, if they get their way, you won't be able to do the same.
Because you are.
Ironbite-notice nobody else is defending these animals.
Because you are.
Ironbite-notice nobody else is defending these animals.
Well, I sort of am, but only insofar as I defend their right to the peaceful expression of their views because I want to ensure that I can do the same.
On the other hand, if they get their way, you won't be able to do the same.
Which is why I don't defend them any further and would exercise my free speech to speak against what they say.
And you spend most of your time confronting people who confront Nazis. Good use of all that freedom. /sBecause you are.
Ironbite-notice nobody else is defending these animals.
I'm not "defending" them. Defending their constitutional rights, sure. But I despise them.Because you are.
Ironbite-notice nobody else is defending these animals.
Well, I sort of am, but only insofar as I defend their right to the peaceful expression of their views because I want to ensure that I can do the same.
On the other hand, if they get their way, you won't be able to do the same.
Which is why I don't defend them any further and would exercise my free speech to speak against what they say.
Indeed. The best response to hate speech is not to suppress it, but to confront it.
You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. If you disagree with its claims of moral equivalency, that's fine. But that doesn't change the facts the article presents. If you have evidence against its claims, then show us.You've shown in one instance anti fascists instigating trouble, this still doesn't show any moral equivalence between Antifa and the Nazis they're opposing. The bottom line is that the Nazis, and those on the Alt right who march with them statistically do more violence, 74% of terrorist homicides in the US are attributable to the far right (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/aug/16/look-data-domestic-terrorism-and-whos-behind-it/), the tiny percentage of terrorist homicides are not attributable to Antifa, the Black Bloc, BLM or Redneck Revolt but to Black seperatists and supremacists (https://www.newamerica.org/in-depth/terrorism-in-america/what-threat-united-states-today/)and those, Lana are facts Though I doubt you'll want to own them.
So the nazis get to carry torches, wave guns, and run over people, and that's expected because they're nazis, nothing we can do about it. No matter than every time they gather, people die, can't stop them gathering. But don't you DARE punch one, or you're just as awful and violent and morally equivalent, and no one will listen to you, even though the other side is NAZIS.
And it's a lot faster to say, "They're violent too!" than what you posted, Tol, which is why violence from the left is counterproductive.Yeah, but that wasn't what I said.
He was (rather obviously IMO) meaning its easier for the right to say "but they're violent too" referring to Antifa. To excuse not backing them up against the Nazis, and to try to create the idea of equivalence among the less-far right, the center, and even the moderate left.Fair enough. Apologies.
I disagree with him too, but don't deliberately misinterpret what he's saying.
You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. If you disagree with its claims of moral equivalency, that's fine. But that doesn't change the facts the article presents. If you have evidence against its claims, then show us.You've shown in one instance anti fascists instigating trouble, this still doesn't show any moral equivalence between Antifa and the Nazis they're opposing. The bottom line is that the Nazis, and those on the Alt right who march with them statistically do more violence, 74% of terrorist homicides in the US are attributable to the far right (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/aug/16/look-data-domestic-terrorism-and-whos-behind-it/), the tiny percentage of terrorist homicides are not attributable to Antifa, the Black Bloc, BLM or Redneck Revolt but to Black seperatists and supremacists (https://www.newamerica.org/in-depth/terrorism-in-america/what-threat-united-states-today/)and those, Lana are facts Though I doubt you'll want to own them.
Nazis want to wipe entire ethnicities off the map, the people at Berkeley who marched with them cared more about coshing hippies than the representatives of pure unfiltered evil standing next to them. The anarchists on the black bloc don't share a vision of the future with me but their vision isn't forged purely by hate, fear and loathing. There is no equivalency.!
You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. If you disagree with its claims of moral equivalency, that's fine. But that doesn't change the facts the article presents. If you have evidence against its claims, then show us.You've shown in one instance anti fascists instigating trouble, this still doesn't show any moral equivalence between Antifa and the Nazis they're opposing. The bottom line is that the Nazis, and those on the Alt right who march with them statistically do more violence, 74% of terrorist homicides in the US are attributable to the far right (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/aug/16/look-data-domestic-terrorism-and-whos-behind-it/), the tiny percentage of terrorist homicides are not attributable to Antifa, the Black Bloc, BLM or Redneck Revolt but to Black seperatists and supremacists (https://www.newamerica.org/in-depth/terrorism-in-america/what-threat-united-states-today/)and those, Lana are facts Though I doubt you'll want to own them.
Nazis want to wipe entire ethnicities off the map, the people at Berkeley who marched with them cared more about coshing hippies than the representatives of pure unfiltered evil standing next to them. The anarchists on the black bloc don't share a vision of the future with me but their vision isn't forged purely by hate, fear and loathing. There is no equivalency.!
Where did I claim a moral equivalency? You don't need to tell me that left-wing extremists haven't killed as many people as jihadis or far-right terrorists, I already know that!
My point is not that Antifa is "just as bad", it's that they're violent extremists who don't care about constitutional liberties or collateral damage. They've attacked people just because they were there. They've openly advocated arson (https://mtlcounter-info.org/en/6-reasons-i-support-arson-as-a-tool-for-social-justice/). They've proclaimed that "liberals get the bullet too". Are they as bad as Nazis? No. But they're horrible people regardless. Pneumonia may not be as deadly as Ebola, but you still don't want to catch it!
Direct question: if Antifa were to kill somebody, would you denounce them?
Eh, depends.You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. If you disagree with its claims of moral equivalency, that's fine. But that doesn't change the facts the article presents. If you have evidence against its claims, then show us.You've shown in one instance anti fascists instigating trouble, this still doesn't show any moral equivalence between Antifa and the Nazis they're opposing. The bottom line is that the Nazis, and those on the Alt right who march with them statistically do more violence, 74% of terrorist homicides in the US are attributable to the far right (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/aug/16/look-data-domestic-terrorism-and-whos-behind-it/), the tiny percentage of terrorist homicides are not attributable to Antifa, the Black Bloc, BLM or Redneck Revolt but to Black seperatists and supremacists (https://www.newamerica.org/in-depth/terrorism-in-america/what-threat-united-states-today/)and those, Lana are facts Though I doubt you'll want to own them.
Nazis want to wipe entire ethnicities off the map, the people at Berkeley who marched with them cared more about coshing hippies than the representatives of pure unfiltered evil standing next to them. The anarchists on the black bloc don't share a vision of the future with me but their vision isn't forged purely by hate, fear and loathing. There is no equivalency.!
Where did I claim a moral equivalency? You don't need to tell me that left-wing extremists haven't killed as many people as jihadis or far-right terrorists, I already know that!
My point is not that Antifa is "just as bad", it's that they're violent extremists who don't care about constitutional liberties or collateral damage. They've attacked people just because they were there. They've openly advocated arson (https://mtlcounter-info.org/en/6-reasons-i-support-arson-as-a-tool-for-social-justice/). They've proclaimed that "liberals get the bullet too". Are they as bad as Nazis? No. But they're horrible people regardless. Pneumonia may not be as deadly as Ebola, but you still don't want to catch it!
Direct question: if Antifa were to kill somebody, would you denounce them?
Eh, depends.You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. If you disagree with its claims of moral equivalency, that's fine. But that doesn't change the facts the article presents. If you have evidence against its claims, then show us.You've shown in one instance anti fascists instigating trouble, this still doesn't show any moral equivalence between Antifa and the Nazis they're opposing. The bottom line is that the Nazis, and those on the Alt right who march with them statistically do more violence, 74% of terrorist homicides in the US are attributable to the far right (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/aug/16/look-data-domestic-terrorism-and-whos-behind-it/), the tiny percentage of terrorist homicides are not attributable to Antifa, the Black Bloc, BLM or Redneck Revolt but to Black seperatists and supremacists (https://www.newamerica.org/in-depth/terrorism-in-america/what-threat-united-states-today/)and those, Lana are facts Though I doubt you'll want to own them.
Nazis want to wipe entire ethnicities off the map, the people at Berkeley who marched with them cared more about coshing hippies than the representatives of pure unfiltered evil standing next to them. The anarchists on the black bloc don't share a vision of the future with me but their vision isn't forged purely by hate, fear and loathing. There is no equivalency.!
Where did I claim a moral equivalency? You don't need to tell me that left-wing extremists haven't killed as many people as jihadis or far-right terrorists, I already know that!
My point is not that Antifa is "just as bad", it's that they're violent extremists who don't care about constitutional liberties or collateral damage. They've attacked people just because they were there. They've openly advocated arson (https://mtlcounter-info.org/en/6-reasons-i-support-arson-as-a-tool-for-social-justice/). They've proclaimed that "liberals get the bullet too". Are they as bad as Nazis? No. But they're horrible people regardless. Pneumonia may not be as deadly as Ebola, but you still don't want to catch it!
Direct question: if Antifa were to kill somebody, would you denounce them?
If there's someone trying to kill you or those you love there's a bit of wriggle room. In any case it'd take less than that for me to condemn them. I've said they do some dumb already. I just think with violent far right factions on the rise they can form a necesarry function for when the cops prefer to wait it out like they did in Charlottsville and Berkely.
Cops do their job properly, self defence against Nazis unecessary.
Anyway, it's high standards coming from someone who hasn't devoted any energy to condemning the right wing hordes in Charlotsville after they killed Heather!