Author Topic: National Elections Thread  (Read 77473 times)

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Offline dpareja

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Re: National Elections Thread
« Reply #750 on: November 22, 2016, 06:02:44 pm »
Someone brought up Tulsi Gabbard as a potential leader for the American liberal movement in this thread. I happened to bump into this little nugget: when it comes to Islam she has more in common with Trump than the liberals. She is also friendly with the Indian Hindu nationalist BJP party due to a large part of her constituency supporting them and has fought against US condemning BJP supporters' violence against the Muslim minority in India. Warren's hawkish approach to the Palestinian conflict pales when compared to her islamophobia.

Quote
Appearing with Fox's Neil Cavuto last week, she lashed out at the White House for holding an extremism summit with Muslim Americans, saying it's a “diversion from what our real focus needs to be. And that focus is on that Islamic extremist threat.” She criticized Obama for saying that “poverty, lack of access to jobs, lack of access to education” is contributing to radicalization. “They are not fueled by materialistic motivation, it's actually a theological, this radical Islamic ideology,” she said, throwing red meat to Fox viewers.

Is Rep. Gabbard perfect? No. Is Sen. Warren perfect? No. Is Rep Ellison perfect? No. Is Sen. Turner perfect? No. Is Sen. Sanders perfect? No. I could go on, but you get the point.

Are they better than corporatist Democrats? Yes.

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V9n0rgawdY

Alt-right types explaining how women just want to have strong men and pregnancies.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 09:17:04 pm by dpareja »
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It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

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Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Askold

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Re: National Elections Thread
« Reply #751 on: November 23, 2016, 02:44:26 am »
I know that this is off-topic but since it as mentioned, the thing that most annoys me when someone tries to explain that "all women want X" is not that it's usually said by guys. The most annoying thing is that it's a generalization and even I (a guy) can't make such generalization on men because of how many kinds of men there are and though I understand women even less than I understand other men I assume that women are similarly complex so statements like this are more likely to be false than true.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline dpareja

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Re: National Elections Thread
« Reply #752 on: November 23, 2016, 02:55:06 am »
I know that this is off-topic but since it as mentioned, the thing that most annoys me when someone tries to explain that "all women want X" is not that it's usually said by guys. The most annoying thing is that it's a generalization and even I (a guy) can't make such generalization on men because of how many kinds of men there are and though I understand women even less than I understand other men I assume that women are similarly complex so statements like this are more likely to be false than true.

It's sort-of off-topic, but relevant because these are the sorts of people who are now openly looking to have influence in the Trump administration.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Askold

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Re: National Elections Thread
« Reply #753 on: November 23, 2016, 03:13:06 am »
Like Roosh V who is now campaigning for the legalization of rape... He claims that now that Trump won it legitimizes everything he has been saying and means (among other things) that rape, yes I wasn't joking, should be legal if you do it on your own property.

...So kinda like Castle doctrine but the victim might survive.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline ironbite

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Re: National Elections Thread
« Reply #754 on: November 23, 2016, 03:34:03 am »
....I wanna throw up

Offline SCarpelan

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Re: National Elections Thread
« Reply #755 on: November 23, 2016, 04:00:44 am »
Someone brought up Tulsi Gabbard as a potential leader for the American liberal movement in this thread. I happened to bump into this little nugget: when it comes to Islam she has more in common with Trump than the liberals. She is also friendly with the Indian Hindu nationalist BJP party due to a large part of her constituency supporting them and has fought against US condemning BJP supporters' violence against the Muslim minority in India. Warren's hawkish approach to the Palestinian conflict pales when compared to her islamophobia.

Quote
Appearing with Fox's Neil Cavuto last week, she lashed out at the White House for holding an extremism summit with Muslim Americans, saying it's a “diversion from what our real focus needs to be. And that focus is on that Islamic extremist threat.” She criticized Obama for saying that “poverty, lack of access to jobs, lack of access to education” is contributing to radicalization. “They are not fueled by materialistic motivation, it's actually a theological, this radical Islamic ideology,” she said, throwing red meat to Fox viewers.

Is Rep. Gabbard perfect? No. Is Sen. Warren perfect? No. Is Rep Ellison perfect? No. Is Sen. Turner perfect? No. Is Sen. Sanders perfect? No. I could go on, but you get the point.

Are they better than corporatist Democrats? Yes.

Warren's hawkishness doesn't bother me as much as it is pretty much in line with the US foreign policy in general so just status quo on the Israel-Palestine issue. I threw her name in to point out that this is on a different level. Gifford condemns religious violence except when it's against Muslims and gets her panties on a bunch when Obama tries to have a dialogue with the American Muslims at which point she goes to Fox news to spew her hate. There is no sugarcoating it no matter how good she is on economical and other social issues: supporting her for any leadership position is spitting in the eye of the American Muslim minority and giving her any power over the US foreign policy would be a serious mistake. I'm not calling for ideological purity: I'm saying that she has a serious fucking problem with one of the most important questions the Western civilization is facing at the moment.

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: National Elections Thread
« Reply #756 on: November 23, 2016, 03:26:01 pm »
Bernie Sanders just gave some insightful comments about identity politics and the Democratic Party:

Beware those who hate the rich more than they love the poor.

Offline SCarpelan

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Re: National Elections Thread
« Reply #757 on: November 23, 2016, 04:02:01 pm »
The quote omits the full context:

Quote
The trouble had begun when Sanders—who was promoting his book, Our Revolution—entertained a written question from a woman named Rebecca who said, “I want to be the second Latina senator in U.S. history. Any tips?”

Sanders began his response, captured on a smartphone camera, with a warning: “Let me respond to the question in a way that the questioner may not be happy with.” And then:

It goes without saying that as we fight to end all forms of discrimination, as we fight to bring more and more women into the political process—Latinas, African-Americans, Native Americans—all of that is enormously important, and count me in as somebody who wants to see that happen.

So far, so good ...

But it is not good enough for somebody to say, “Hey, I’m a Latina. Vote for me.” That is not good enough. I have to know whether that Latina is going to stand up with the working class of this country and is going to take on big-money interests.

And then, after backing up to stress the need for diversity in politics—“We need 50 women in the Senate. We need more African-Americans.”

Sanders is not dismissing identity politics. He is reminding that it's not the only dimension of the political struggle and the economical dimension with its class struggle should not be forgotten. These are not mutually exclusive approaches; on the contrary they are connected and ignoring either one is detrimental to building an inclusive society.

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: National Elections Thread
« Reply #758 on: November 23, 2016, 04:19:31 pm »
The quote omits the full context:

Quote
The trouble had begun when Sanders—who was promoting his book, Our Revolution—entertained a written question from a woman named Rebecca who said, “I want to be the second Latina senator in U.S. history. Any tips?”

Sanders began his response, captured on a smartphone camera, with a warning: “Let me respond to the question in a way that the questioner may not be happy with.” And then:

It goes without saying that as we fight to end all forms of discrimination, as we fight to bring more and more women into the political process—Latinas, African-Americans, Native Americans—all of that is enormously important, and count me in as somebody who wants to see that happen.

So far, so good ...

But it is not good enough for somebody to say, “Hey, I’m a Latina. Vote for me.” That is not good enough. I have to know whether that Latina is going to stand up with the working class of this country and is going to take on big-money interests.

And then, after backing up to stress the need for diversity in politics—“We need 50 women in the Senate. We need more African-Americans.”

Sanders is not dismissing identity politics. He is reminding that it's not the only dimension of the political struggle and the economical dimension with its class struggle should not be forgotten. These are not mutually exclusive approaches; on the contrary they are connected and ignoring either one is detrimental to building an inclusive society.

I never meant to imply he was. Even without the context, what I took away from it is that he was saying the Democrats shouldn't focus on identity politics to the detriment of everything else. Then again, I can understand why my snippet might be misleading. Next time, I'll post the full context as well.
Beware those who hate the rich more than they love the poor.