FSTDT Forums

Community => Society and History => Topic started by: Ultimate Paragon on June 20, 2014, 08:30:47 am

Title: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on June 20, 2014, 08:30:47 am
http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/06/israel-adopts-bringbackourboys-for-kidnapped-teenagers/372850/ (http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/06/israel-adopts-bringbackourboys-for-kidnapped-teenagers/372850/)

Quote
The search for three kidnapped Israeli teenagers who went missing in the West Bank is being accompanied by #BringBackOurBoys, a social media campaign that has quickly gone viral.

Inspired by the campaign that brought attention to the plight of a large group of abducted Nigerian schoolgirls (who still remain captive), the efforts are putting pressure on American, Israeli, and Palestinian politicians to work to secure the release of the teenage boys, who disappeared while hitchhiking last week — a situation complicated by the fact that more than one group has claimed responsibility.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has publicly placed the blame on the terrorist group Hamas and ordered an arrest operation in the West Bank, where the boys are believed to be held. The crisis also prompted the first conversation between Netanyahu and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in over a year. (Abbas condemned both the abduction and the assertive Israeli efforts to find the captors.)

The abduction has galvanized the Israeli public, bringing together the normally fractious segments of the population for rallies and prayer sessions. On Sunday, an estimated 25,000 Israelis gathered in Jerusalem for one such prayer rally.
Let's hope the boys are found and returned safely.
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: Lt. Fred on June 20, 2014, 10:00:54 pm
Let's hope it isn't used as an excuse to provoke a reaction.
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: Stormwarden on June 21, 2014, 02:47:18 am
I hope they get returned home safe, and that no harm comes out of this whole damned episode.
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: ironbite on June 21, 2014, 08:35:17 pm
(http://www.somegif.com/gifs/13884070271386314350.GIF)
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: Witchyjoshy on June 21, 2014, 09:44:22 pm
(http://www.somegif.com/gifs/13884070271386314350.GIF)

Mind explaining?
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on June 21, 2014, 09:45:34 pm
(http://www.somegif.com/gifs/13884070271386314350.GIF)

Mind explaining?
I'll let Ibby correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's mocking the idea that this hashtag campaign will accomplish anything.
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: ironbite on June 21, 2014, 11:32:50 pm
No I'm actually laughing at Stormwarden for thinking nothing bad will come out of this.

Ironbite-I just didn't quote it.
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: Witchyjoshy on June 21, 2014, 11:41:28 pm
No I'm actually laughing at Stormwarden for thinking nothing bad will come out of this.

Ironbite-I just didn't quote it.

Okay, that makes more sense.
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: Lt. Fred on June 22, 2014, 12:58:47 am
According to Palestinian news, the Israelis have kidnapped a further 370 Palestinians, bringing the total number of Palestinians being held by Israel to a hair over 7000, none of whom had anything to do with this counter-kidnapping.

I can't find any western media picking up the story, so take it with a grain of salt.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=706487
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: Askold on June 22, 2014, 01:01:54 am
No I'm actually laughing at Stormwarden for thinking nothing bad will come out of this.

Ironbite-I just didn't quote it.
He said that he HOPES that everything will turn out fine. That is not the same as saying that things will definetly be fine.
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: ironbite on June 22, 2014, 08:45:46 am
And I'm still going to throw my head back and laugh.

Ironbite-because that region is fucked up.
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on July 01, 2014, 10:08:31 pm
Well... they found them.

Or rather, their bodies.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/israeli-army-14-rockets-fired-israel-gaza (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/israeli-army-14-rockets-fired-israel-gaza)

Quote
JERUSALEM (AP) — The Israeli military found the bodies of three missing teenagers on Monday just over two weeks after they were abducted in the West Bank — a grim discovery that ended a frantic search that led to Israel's largest ground operation in the Palestinian territory in nearly a decade and drew Israeli threats of retaliation.

"Hamas is responsible and Hamas will pay," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed, referring to the Islamic militant group that Israel has accused of carrying out the kidnappings.

The teenagers "were kidnapped and murdered in cold blood by human animals," the Israeli leader said as he convened an emergency meeting of his Security Cabinet.

The three-hour session ended after midnight without any decisions, and officials were expected to resume deliberations on Tuesday.

The episode has put Netanyahu in a difficult position. With a public enraged over the deaths, the Israeli leader has widespread support to strike Hamas. But after a two-week crackdown against the group, he could have a tough time finding new targets. He is also facing international calls for restraint.

Eyal Yifrah, 19, Gilad Shaar, 16, and Naftali Fraenkel, a 16-year-old with dual Israeli-American citizenship, disappeared June 12 while hitchhiking home from the Jewish seminaries where they were studying near the West Bank city of Hebron. Despite the dangers, hitchhiking is common among Israelis traveling in and out of Jewish settlements in the West Bank.

In an operation codenamed "Brother's Keeper," Israel dispatched thousands of troops across the West Bank in search of the youths, closed roads in the Hebron area and arrested some 400 Hamas operatives throughout the territory. The search ended Monday afternoon with the discovery of the bodies under a pile of rocks in a field north of Hebron.

Israel has identified two well-known Hamas operatives from Hebron as the primary suspects. The men, Marwan Qawasmeh and Amer Abu Aisheh, remain on the run, and military officials said the search for them would continue.

The search for the teens became a national obsession. Israeli media delivered round-the-clock updates, top officials held daily televised briefings and Israelis held prayer vigils. The mothers of the three teens became public figures as they campaigned for their sons' return, at one point traveling to Geneva to address the U.N. Human Rights Council in Geneva.

News of their deaths prompted an outpouring of grief late Monday. Large crowds of supporters rushed to the homes of the families in the central Israeli towns of Nof Ayalon and Elad, and the West Bank settlement of Talmon, while supporters lit memorial candles and prayed.

Large crowds gathered in Tel Aviv's central Rabin Square, and at the West Bank junction where the youths were abducted, singing songs, praying and lighting candles shaped in the names of the youths or the Jewish Star of David.

"All of Israel bows its head today," said President Shimon Peres.
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: Lt. Fred on July 02, 2014, 02:07:11 am
Obviously that's quite concerning. It'd be even more concerning if I trusted Netanyahu as far as I could throw him. I doubt this is Hamas' doing. It may well be an organised gang, of which there are hundreds in the West Bank. Of course, the counter-kidnapping of four hundred Palestinians by the IDF is certainly Israel's doing. Always escalate. That's the solution, right guys?
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: Barbarella on July 02, 2014, 10:07:42 am
Both sides are idiots. This cycle of revenge....that's what's keeping this Israeli/Palestinian conflict going.

The idea of forgiveness, diplomacy, sharing, humane punishment for wrongdoers, equality, co-existing & live-and-let-live is literally ALIEN to them!

How about reach out to each other in love & forgiveness, burying the hatchet, Palestinians welcomed by Israelis as equal citizens & regarding The Holyland as equally Israeli & Palestinian? IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK?!

Don't they understand that this constant cycle of revenge isn't solving anything?

How stupid can these people be? Even the USA has better ethnic-relations than this! For all our ethnic turmoil, at least we're not fighting all out literal wars for "ownership" of the country! We seem to at least have some semblance of co-existence.

GROW UP, ISSAC & ISHMAEL! I DON'T CARE WHO STARTED IT OR WHO'S RIGHT OR WRONG! GROW THE FRICKIN' HELL UP, YA BIG BABIES!
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on July 02, 2014, 01:53:02 pm
Both sides are idiots. This cycle of revenge....that's what's keeping this Israeli/Palestinian conflict going.

The idea of forgiveness, diplomacy, sharing, humane punishment for wrongdoers, equality, co-existing & live-and-let-live is literally ALIEN to them!

How about reach out to each other in love & forgiveness, burying the hatchet, Palestinians welcomed by Israelis as equal citizens & regarding The Holyland as equally Israeli & Palestinian? IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK?!

Don't they understand that this constant cycle of revenge isn't solving anything?

How stupid can these people be? Even the USA has better ethnic-relations than this! For all our ethnic turmoil, at least we're not fighting all out literal wars for "ownership" of the country! We seem to at least have some semblance of co-existence.

GROW UP, ISSAC & ISHMAEL! I DON'T CARE WHO STARTED IT OR WHO'S RIGHT OR WRONG! GROW THE FRICKIN' HELL UP, YA BIG BABIES!
There are plenty of reasonable people on both sides.  The problem is the fanatics.  Ask Yitzhak Rabin.
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: MadCatTLX on July 02, 2014, 03:21:50 pm
I just saw on a TV in a doctors waiting room tuned to CNN that a Palestinian boy was found murdered and violence has broken out in Jerusalem.

Edit: The body was reportedly so mutilated that the police didn't want the parents to see it.
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: Dakota Bob on July 02, 2014, 04:36:29 pm
The ride never ends. I'm sure this will end well for all involved.
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: Canadian Mojo on July 02, 2014, 06:01:14 pm
How stupid can these people be? Even the USA has better ethnic-relations than this! For all our ethnic turmoil, at least we're not fighting all out literal wars for "ownership" of the country! We seem to at least have some semblance of co-existence.

That's because we won our wars for control of the continent and herded the loosers onto reservations quite a while ago.
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on July 02, 2014, 06:04:07 pm
How stupid can these people be? Even the USA has better ethnic-relations than this! For all our ethnic turmoil, at least we're not fighting all out literal wars for "ownership" of the country! We seem to at least have some semblance of co-existence.

That's because we won our wars for control of the continent and herded the loosers onto reservations quite a while ago.
In fairness, things are getting better for the Native Americans.  They're getting old claims recognized, they're allowed to operate casinos, and they're increasingly reasserting their rights and culture.  The rights of indigenous people are advancing just about everywhere.  I wouldn't be surprised if the same was true of the Palestinians in the near future.
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: Canadian Mojo on July 02, 2014, 06:37:55 pm
Define "near."

If Israel follows our examples, they still have to finish seizing everything they want first. Then they have to pacify the population, followed by attempting to erase any living memory of the culture (I think that was more of a Canadian than American thing), eventually they will come to accept them as humans with rights, which eventually leads to acknowledgement that they bare some responsibility for the situation they created at which point they accept them as a sovereign but subordinate people within their borders.

I'd say 150-200 years without outside influence.
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on July 02, 2014, 06:55:49 pm
Define "near."

If Israel follows our examples, they still have to finish seizing everything they want first. Then they have to pacify the population, followed by attempting to erase any living memory of the culture (I think that was more of a Canadian than American thing), eventually they will come to accept them as humans with rights, which eventually leads to acknowledgement that they bare some responsibility for the situation they created at which point they accept them as a sovereign but subordinate people within their borders.

I'd say 150-200 years without outside influence.
Values are different now.  Besides, this time they have the international community breathing down their neck.
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: Ironchew on July 02, 2014, 07:24:34 pm
Besides, this time they have the international community breathing down their neck.

Israel has always been pissing off the international community, but they don't care because the United States always steps in to give them aid and unconditional support. Maybe if we stopped giving foreign aid to Israel, they would start feeling the international pressure.
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on July 02, 2014, 07:32:49 pm
Besides, this time they have the international community breathing down their neck.

Israel has always been pissing off the international community, but they don't care because the United States always steps in to give them aid and unconditional support. Maybe if we stopped giving foreign aid to Israel, they would start feeling the international pressure.
There's plenty of opposition to this within Israel.
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: Barbarella on July 02, 2014, 09:40:02 pm
Besides, this time they have the international community breathing down their neck.

Israel has always been pissing off the international community, but they don't care because the United States always steps in to give them aid and unconditional support. Maybe if we stopped giving foreign aid to Israel, they would start feeling the international pressure.
There's plenty of opposition to this within Israel.

Well, at least there are sane Israelis & Palestinians.

There needs to be some sociological studies of various groups who are prone to joining fanatical religious groups (especially terrorist types). There are reasons why folks take up these belief systems & activities. If we can study this, then find a way to address the problem...the psychology...perhaps we can lower the rate of people falling for it & perhaps give better options or coping methods to replace it. Many join terrorist groups, hate groups, etc. due to stuff like misfortune, poverty, discontentment, uncertainty, etc. Address the root and perhaps progress will be made.

Also, moderate/liberal religious missionaries should come among these people to provide an alternative version of the people's faiths. Whatever your view on religion is...one must accept that it will be around for a long time in one form or another. For many, spiritual & religious faith provides comfort, meaning, coping tools & direction. Provide kinder, saner alternatives and hopefully lessen the frumminess. Non-frum Christians need to teach Christians...Non-frum Muslims, Muslims...Non-frum Jews, Jews...and so on.

True, I may be a bit idealistic but I'm certain if some folks gave it a try, it might help a bit.
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: I am lizard on July 02, 2014, 11:22:45 pm
I think we give waaaay to much money to Israel.
Yes we should support them financially.
No, our financial support should not be 130 billion.
Title: Re: #BringBackOurBoys
Post by: Lt. Fred on July 03, 2014, 04:02:56 am
Besides, this time they have the international community breathing down their neck.

Israel has always been pissing off the international community, but they don't care because the United States always steps in to give them aid and unconditional support. Maybe if we stopped giving foreign aid to Israel, they would start feeling the international pressure.
There's plenty of opposition to this within Israel.

Which is strange, because there is none within the US Congress or media (or indeed in Australia).