Author Topic: Shooting at Muhammad Cartoon Contest  (Read 15592 times)

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Offline Barbarella

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Re: Shooting at Muhammad Cartoon Contest
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2015, 01:53:16 am »
I'm a pantheistic NeoPagan with a Universalist/Interfaith bent. So that's that.

Offline davedan

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Re: Shooting at Muhammad Cartoon Contest
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2015, 02:19:23 am »
I think it is ridiculous to suggest that Islam cannot be a peaceful religion because what is in the Quaran. Equally bloody and genocidal chapters are in the old testament, yet you don't hear (mainstream/not fuckwit) people suggesting that Judaism is inherently violent and redeemable.

But I'm sure this sort of attitude makes sure that muslims don't feel isolated from the rest of the community and therefore more prone to radicalization.

Offline Nemo

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Re: Shooting at Muhammad Cartoon Contest
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2015, 09:31:46 am »
I think it is ridiculous to suggest that Islam cannot be a peaceful religion because what is in the Quaran. Equally bloody and genocidal chapters are in the old testament, yet you don't hear (mainstream/not fuckwit) people suggesting that Judaism is inherently violent and redeemable.

But I'm sure this sort of attitude makes sure that muslims don't feel isolated from the rest of the community and therefore more prone to radicalization.
Read the Torah. Then look at modern Judaism. You'll be shocked by how different the two are. It was Jewish theologians who came up with the Documentary Hypothesis for the origins of the Torah. Furthermore, many Jewish religious schools emphasize critical thinking and debate, even against God himself. Just imagine how that would fly in an American Christian Sunday School!
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Shooting at Muhammad Cartoon Contest
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2015, 10:05:37 am »
The Abrahamic faiths are one gigantic clusterfuck.  Not even Judaism is immune to the whole "one book, fifty dozen different sects" thing.  Might not be as pronounced as Islam and Christianity, but they've still got a noticeable amount of splinter group fuckery going on.
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Shooting at Muhammad Cartoon Contest
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2015, 10:20:30 am »
I think it is ridiculous to suggest that Islam cannot be a peaceful religion because what is in the Quaran. Equally bloody and genocidal chapters are in the old testament, yet you don't hear (mainstream/not fuckwit) people suggesting that Judaism is inherently violent and redeemable.

But I'm sure this sort of attitude makes sure that muslims don't feel isolated from the rest of the community and therefore more prone to radicalization.
Read the Torah. Then look at modern Judaism. You'll be shocked by how different the two are. It was Jewish theologians who came up with the Documentary Hypothesis for the origins of the Torah. Furthermore, many Jewish religious schools emphasize critical thinking and debate, even against God himself. Just imagine how that would fly in an American Christian Sunday School!

That's kind of the point. The argument that Islam is inherently violent because of the Quran implies that Christianity and Judaism should also be inherently violent because of the Old Testament. Since people can take a look at a bloody and violent holy texts and then reinterpret the fuck out of it in Judaism and Christianity, we should assume Muslims also have that same ability and look for explanations of violence elsewhere.

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Offline Nemo

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Re: Shooting at Muhammad Cartoon Contest
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2015, 01:03:28 pm »
I think it is ridiculous to suggest that Islam cannot be a peaceful religion because what is in the Quaran. Equally bloody and genocidal chapters are in the old testament, yet you don't hear (mainstream/not fuckwit) people suggesting that Judaism is inherently violent and redeemable.

But I'm sure this sort of attitude makes sure that muslims don't feel isolated from the rest of the community and therefore more prone to radicalization.
Read the Torah. Then look at modern Judaism. You'll be shocked by how different the two are. It was Jewish theologians who came up with the Documentary Hypothesis for the origins of the Torah. Furthermore, many Jewish religious schools emphasize critical thinking and debate, even against God himself. Just imagine how that would fly in an American Christian Sunday School!

That's kind of the point. The argument that Islam is inherently violent because of the Quran implies that Christianity and Judaism should also be inherently violent because of the Old Testament. Since people can take a look at a bloody and violent holy texts and then reinterpret the fuck out of it in Judaism and Christianity, we should assume Muslims also have that same ability and look for explanations of violence elsewhere.
I hate to say something that you could hear any amateur Christian apologist say, but the New Testament clumsily retcons  the violence out. Jesus often changes the subject when asked about putting people to death, and in some cases outright condemns the practice. And so you can have a Christian fundamentalist who is functionally a pacifist, and that person can base their pacifism on the Bible. The same is not true of Islam. Muhammad, unlike Jesus and Moses, is uncontroversially acknowledged to have existed, and to have been a brutal warlord as described by the Quran. For a peaceful person who identifies as a Muslim to claim they are emulating Muhammad, they must willfully distort history.
"If it's white or Jewish then they're criminals, if it's two brown people killing each other ... meh, that's their culture and we should respect it ... cultural relativists should be ashamed of themselves." - Faisal Saeed Al Mutar

Offline ironbite

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Re: Shooting at Muhammad Cartoon Contest
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2015, 04:51:57 pm »
So now that ISIS has claimed that this attack is one of their's...how long until the GOP makes that a sticking point for Obama?

Ironbite-negative 12 minutes?

Offline davedan

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Re: Shooting at Muhammad Cartoon Contest
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2015, 06:54:43 pm »
I think it is ridiculous to suggest that Islam cannot be a peaceful religion because what is in the Quaran. Equally bloody and genocidal chapters are in the old testament, yet you don't hear (mainstream/not fuckwit) people suggesting that Judaism is inherently violent and redeemable.

But I'm sure this sort of attitude makes sure that muslims don't feel isolated from the rest of the community and therefore more prone to radicalization.
Read the Torah. Then look at modern Judaism. You'll be shocked by how different the two are. It was Jewish theologians who came up with the Documentary Hypothesis for the origins of the Torah. Furthermore, many Jewish religious schools emphasize critical thinking and debate, even against God himself. Just imagine how that would fly in an American Christian Sunday School!

That's kind of the point. The argument that Islam is inherently violent because of the Quran implies that Christianity and Judaism should also be inherently violent because of the Old Testament. Since people can take a look at a bloody and violent holy texts and then reinterpret the fuck out of it in Judaism and Christianity, we should assume Muslims also have that same ability and look for explanations of violence elsewhere.
I hate to say something that you could hear any amateur Christian apologist say, but the New Testament clumsily retcons  the violence out. Jesus often changes the subject when asked about putting people to death, and in some cases outright condemns the practice. And so you can have a Christian fundamentalist who is functionally a pacifist, and that person can base their pacifism on the Bible. The same is not true of Islam. Muhammad, unlike Jesus and Moses, is uncontroversially acknowledged to have existed, and to have been a brutal warlord as described by the Quran. For a peaceful person who identifies as a Muslim to claim they are emulating Muhammad, they must willfully distort history.

Actually there is some disagreement both over whether Muhammed existed and what we can know about him. Tom Holland wrote a whole book about it called 'Under the Shadow of the Sword'. But if for a moment you accept that the 4 biographies of Muhammed written 200 years after his death are an accurate description of him, then you should also accept that Muhammed chose peace rather than war at almost every opportunity. If you accept we can know anything about Muhammed, then you accept that apart from being a religious leader he was also a political leader.

The comment about retconning the violent parts of the bible simply ignores the comments where Jesus says he comes not to change the law (that not what jot or tittle of the law would be changed).

As for the Torah evolving due to jewish theology (apart from being entirely my point) you ignore that Maimonides who was central to this lived and worked in where? Oh that's right Moorish Cordoba (under islamic rule). And was influenced strongly in his views by the islamic Falysufs. Anyway Nemo don't let me interfere with your blind hatred of Islam. Fuck I'm close to godwinning this argument...

Offline niam2023

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Re: Shooting at Muhammad Cartoon Contest
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2015, 08:01:20 pm »
I cannot help but think the people involved in the contest kinda wanted some nutters to come, just so they / the police could shoot em dead.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: Shooting at Muhammad Cartoon Contest
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2015, 08:24:53 pm »
The best part is they were having some sort of drawing contest.  This was like strapping a bloody carcass to yourself and jumping in shark infested waters.  They wanted these idiots to come.  And they did come.  Of course this is Texas where you fire your first gun while still in the womb so these idiots thought they could do some Charlie Hebo shit just found out how wrong they really were.

Ironbite-and now they're dead.

Offline Dakota Bob

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Re: Shooting at Muhammad Cartoon Contest
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2015, 08:32:20 pm »
The best part is they were having some sort of drawing contest.  This was like strapping a bloody carcass to yourself and jumping in shark infested waters.  They wanted these idiots to come.  And they did come.  Of course this is Texas where you fire your first gun while still in the womb so these idiots thought they could do some Charlie Hebo shit just found out how wrong they really were.

Ironbite-and now they're dead.

Something something VICTIM BLAMING

Offline guizonde

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Re: Shooting at Muhammad Cartoon Contest
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2015, 09:33:10 pm »
The best part is they were having some sort of drawing contest.  This was like strapping a bloody carcass to yourself and jumping in shark infested waters.  They wanted these idiots to come.  And they did come.  Of course this is Texas where you fire your first gun while still in the womb so these idiots thought they could do some Charlie Hebo shit just found out how wrong they really were.

Ironbite-and now they're dead.

Something something VICTIM BLAMING

 I'm with ironbite on this zone. Stirring suit UP un texas ils asking to be shot
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Offline Second Coming of Madman

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Re: Shooting at Muhammad Cartoon Contest
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2015, 09:59:57 pm »
The best part is they were having some sort of drawing contest.  This was like strapping a bloody carcass to yourself and jumping in shark infested waters.  They wanted these idiots to come.  And they did come.  Of course this is Texas where you fire your first gun while still in the womb so these idiots thought they could do some Charlie Hebo shit just found out how wrong they really were.

Ironbite-and now they're dead.

Something something VICTIM BLAMING

 I'm with ironbite on this zone. Stirring suit UP un texas ils asking to be shot
Seconded, they had it coming.
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Offline niam2023

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Re: Shooting at Muhammad Cartoon Contest
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2015, 10:04:50 pm »
ISIS: We are responsible for two idiots getting themselves shot dead in the craziest fucking state in the USA.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: Shooting at Muhammad Cartoon Contest
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2015, 10:25:51 pm »
CAUSE WE'RE SMART!

Ironbite-no ISIS...you're really fucking not.