Author Topic: Google facing multiple lawsuits  (Read 11664 times)

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Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #210 on: November 06, 2017, 08:56:29 pm »
Someone who believes that one race is innately superior at stuff- a racist.
Someone who believes that one gender is innately superior to another-not a sexist, according to Lana.

Ok.

You'd have a point if he actually said that. But he never says that women are less good at coding than men, only that our interests tend to lie in other areas.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #211 on: November 07, 2017, 12:22:15 am »
Someone who believes that one race is innately superior at stuff- a racist.
Someone who believes that one gender is innately superior to another-not a sexist, according to Lana.

Ok.

You'd have a point if he actually said that. But he never says that women are less good at coding than men, only that our interests tend to lie in other areas.

*cough*

Quote
I'm simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes...

"Interests lie in other areas" because of biology, eh Lana?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 12:28:41 am by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #212 on: November 12, 2017, 11:46:33 am »
Yes, it looks bad... taken out of context. Here's the full context:

Quote
At Google, we’re regularly told that implicit (unconscious) and explicit biases are holding women back in tech and leadership. Of course, men and women experience bias, tech, and the workplace differently and we should be cognizant of this, but it’s far from the whole story.

On average, men and women biologically differ in many ways. These differences aren’t just socially constructed because:
* They’re universal across human cultures
* They often have clear biological causes and links to prenatal testosterone
* Biological males that were castrated at birth and raised as females often still identify and act like males
* The underlying traits are highly heritable
* They’re exactly what we would predict from an evolutionary psychology perspective
Note, I’m not saying that all men differ from women in the following ways or that these differences are “just.” I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership.

He does mention abilities once, yes, but that's part of his general argument for natural sex differences. His argument about Google and coding doesn't appeal to any specific ability differences. Instead, he stresses differences of interest, using several specific examples to make this point.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #213 on: November 12, 2017, 03:26:58 pm »
That's Skyfire's "Women can't be mechanics because their tits get in the way" to a T.

Ironbite-fuck off with that shit.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #214 on: November 12, 2017, 03:36:13 pm »
Yes, it looks bad... taken out of context. Here's the full context:

Quote
At Google, we’re regularly told that implicit (unconscious) and explicit biases are holding women back in tech and leadership. Of course, men and women experience bias, tech, and the workplace differently and we should be cognizant of this, but it’s far from the whole story.

On average, men and women biologically differ in many ways. These differences aren’t just socially constructed because:
* They’re universal across human cultures
* They often have clear biological causes and links to prenatal testosterone
* Biological males that were castrated at birth and raised as females often still identify and act like males
* The underlying traits are highly heritable
* They’re exactly what we would predict from an evolutionary psychology perspective
Note, I’m not saying that all men differ from women in the following ways or that these differences are “just.” I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership.

He does mention abilities once, yes, but that's part of his general argument for natural sex differences. His argument about Google and coding doesn't appeal to any specific ability differences. Instead, he stresses differences of interest, using several specific examples to make this point.
It's the core of his general argument. His general argument is that Google's diversity policy is bad because women are biologically less inclined to want certain jobs. That's biological determinism that, if applied to different ethnicities, would rightly be called racism.

In order to justify his political position he then cites whatever interpretation of the avaliable evidence justifies his position and ignores that which contradicts it. That's not a scientific approach.

Related, this isn't a thread about science and technology. This is a thread about politics, specifically labor relations. It's not a tech issue by virtue of the fact that it happened in a tech company and it's not a science issue by virtue of the fact that Damore uses science when it's convenient to bolster a political point of view.

I note you still haven't answered Murdin's takedown of the "science" used in Damore's manifesto. Still researching, I guess.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 03:47:34 pm by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Askold

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #215 on: December 16, 2017, 10:53:24 am »


There we go.

I didn't notice the name at first so I assumed this was going to be about the climate change or something.
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #216 on: December 16, 2017, 11:15:33 am »
Jumping Jesus, if that's his actual mug, I'm not surprised he's a douchebag.  He looks like the kind of obnoxious little weed that'd get shoved into a locker after correcting the syntax of Gristle McJockstrap one too many times with a smug little prick smile on his face.  Guess he got tired of getting the shit beaten out of him by barely-literate apes and decided to try and aim at someone he feels is lower than him...without realizing that the thing at which he's aiming is his own reflection.

Like, I'm a geeky ass motherfucker, and even I want to give that little bastard a siwrlie.
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Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #217 on: December 16, 2017, 03:25:00 pm »


There we go.

I didn't notice the name at first so I assumed this was going to be about the climate change or something.

I love how she assumes the worst.

By the way, Askold, you have yet to answer the direct question I asked:

Also, direct question: why aren't you reprimanding them for their blatantly dickish behavior? Normally, I wouldn't ask that of you, but since it's against the rules...

Jumping Jesus, if that's his actual mug, I'm not surprised he's a douchebag.  He looks like the kind of obnoxious little weed that'd get shoved into a locker after correcting the syntax of Gristle McJockstrap one too many times with a smug little prick smile on his face.  Guess he got tired of getting the shit beaten out of him by barely-literate apes and decided to try and aim at someone he feels is lower than him...without realizing that the thing at which he's aiming is his own reflection.

Like, I'm a geeky ass motherfucker, and even I want to give that little bastard a siwrlie.

Making a lot of assumptions based on his appearance alone...
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 03:28:13 pm by Lana Reverse »
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Offline niam2023

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #218 on: December 16, 2017, 04:12:44 pm »
Jumping Jesus, if that's his actual mug, I'm not surprised he's a douchebag.  He looks like the kind of obnoxious little weed that'd get shoved into a locker after correcting the syntax of Gristle McJockstrap one too many times with a smug little prick smile on his face.  Guess he got tired of getting the shit beaten out of him by barely-literate apes and decided to try and aim at someone he feels is lower than him...without realizing that the thing at which he's aiming is his own reflection.

Like, I'm a geeky ass motherfucker, and even I want to give that little bastard a siwrlie.

URGE TO SHOVE DAMORE INTO A LOCKER...RISING!!
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #219 on: December 16, 2017, 04:34:07 pm »
Is it direct question time again? Hey Lana when are you gonna address the points in Murdin's post?

Gosh darn that horrible woman for assuming that man wasn't telling her that her girly genetics make her less likely to pursue a career in tech weren't for her own damned good. Also you lot, stop tormenting the nerd. It's wedgies first damnit!

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #220 on: December 16, 2017, 08:21:04 pm »
Jumping Jesus, if that's his actual mug, I'm not surprised he's a douchebag.  He looks like the kind of obnoxious little weed that'd get shoved into a locker after correcting the syntax of Gristle McJockstrap one too many times with a smug little prick smile on his face.  Guess he got tired of getting the shit beaten out of him by barely-literate apes and decided to try and aim at someone he feels is lower than him...without realizing that the thing at which he's aiming is his own reflection.

Like, I'm a geeky ass motherfucker, and even I want to give that little bastard a siwrlie.

Making a lot of assumptions based on his appearance alone...

...Oh noes?
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Offline Askold

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #221 on: December 16, 2017, 09:23:15 pm »
a) That's not "assuming the worst." Damore is there saying that he got fired for making his "women cannot into computers" document and that the belief that women are equal to men in computers is as silly as believing that santa is real. The context makes it clear that that is what he is saying.

b) You are acting like a dick, dodging questions and defending racists, misogynists and Nazis in almost every thread you comment in. I think it is quite understandable why the others no longer give you the benefit of doubt.
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Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #222 on: December 16, 2017, 11:37:27 pm »
a) That's not "assuming the worst." Damore is there saying that he got fired for making his "women cannot into computers" document and that the belief that women are equal to men in computers is as silly as believing that santa is real. The context makes it clear that that is what he is saying.

He never says anything about abilities, just interests.

b) You are acting like a dick, dodging questions and defending racists, misogynists and Nazis in almost every thread you comment in. I think it is quite understandable why the others no longer give you the benefit of doubt.

Your definition of "defending" is very broad. Same with "misogynist" and "racist," and probably "Nazi" too while I'm at it.

And you're one to talk about dodging questions, considering you literally just did that.

Is it direct question time again? Hey Lana when are you gonna address the points in Murdin's post?

Gosh darn that horrible woman for assuming that man wasn't telling her that her girly genetics make her less likely to pursue a career in tech weren't for her own damned good. Also you lot, stop tormenting the nerd. It's wedgies first damnit!

So you acknowledge that he's talking about interest, rather than abilities. Good, now we're getting somewhere.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #223 on: December 16, 2017, 11:46:41 pm »
Yes, interests that arise due to biology, according to Damore.

See, Hard Manly Science sez lassies just don't want all that sciency, engineery stuff. It's in their biology to like kitten posts instead.

It's Science(tm)!

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #224 on: December 16, 2017, 11:57:36 pm »
Yes, interests that arise due to biology, according to Damore.

See, Hard Manly Science sez lassies just don't want all that sciency, engineery stuff. It's in their biology to like kitten posts instead.

It's Science(tm)!

You mock, but a growing body of research suggests that interest differences are at least partly biological.

Quote
Children as young as 9 months-old prefer to play with toys specific to their own gender, according to a new study from academics at City University London and UCL.

The paper, which is published in the journal of Infant and Child Development, shows that in a familiar nursery environment significant sex differences were evident at an earlier age than gendered identity is usually demonstrated.

The research therefore suggests the possibility that boys and girls follow different developmental trajectories with respect to selection of gender-typed toys and that there is both a biological and a developmental-environmental components to the sex differences seen in object preferences.

Emphasis mine.
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