Author Topic: Over 200,000 seriously don't want to live on this planet anymore.  (Read 4626 times)

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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Over 200,000 seriously don't want to live on this planet anymore.
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2013, 08:58:11 pm »
Life is a suicide mission, and we embark on it anyway.

Pardon me for participating in behaviors that I normally condemn, but...

This is pretentious nonsense.
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Offline gyeonghwa

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Re: Over 200,000 seriously don't want to live on this planet anymore.
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2013, 10:42:59 pm »
Life is a suicide mission, and we embark on it anyway.

Pardon me for participating in behaviors that I normally condemn, but...

This is pretentious nonsense.

But you're right. Just because we all will die doesn't mean we should actively seek death. And it's not like most of us choose to die. Having a natural occurrence happen to us isn't the same as suicide. It is sophist b s.
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Offline PosthumanHeresy

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Re: Over 200,000 seriously don't want to live on this planet anymore.
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2013, 11:00:06 pm »
Life is a suicide mission, and we embark on it anyway.

Pardon me for participating in behaviors that I normally condemn, but...

This is pretentious nonsense.

But you're right. Just because we all will die doesn't mean we should actively seek death. And it's not like most of us choose to die. Having a natural occurrence happen to us isn't the same as suicide. It is sophist b s.
We shouldn't seek death, but we shouldn't avoid it. If you're willing to take the risk, go ahead. Who are we to tell them not to? They're willing to look at impossible odds and say "We're going to do the impossible". That takes bigger balls than pretty much everyone on Earth. Maybe they are suicidal. It's better for them to die for something than nothing. That's what's so amazing about humans. We look at the impossible and do it anyways. We landed on the moon with less technology than it takes to take a shitty picture of your food on Instagram. Perhaps the future generations will say we landed on Mars with less technology than it takes to lift a ton.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Over 200,000 seriously don't want to live on this planet anymore.
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2013, 12:01:26 am »
My opinion is that if these people truly are volunteers AND this trip will help humanity and SCIENCE considerably then I would support this. On the other hand if we could get the same information with an automated ship and the human participation will merely cause 20-40 unnecessary deaths then this should be stopped.

If the crew has no chance of survival then what is the point?
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Offline Flying Mint Bunny!

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Re: Over 200,000 seriously don't want to live on this planet anymore.
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2013, 06:40:16 am »
Isn't this kind of running before you can walk?

I don't understand why they are sending 20-40 people to permanently live on Mars when no ones even walked on there yet.


Offline ironbite

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Re: Over 200,000 seriously don't want to live on this planet anymore.
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2013, 07:54:01 am »
How else are we gonna set foot on Mars?

Ironbite-it's not exactly in orbit.

Offline mellenORL

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Re: Over 200,000 seriously don't want to live on this planet anymore.
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2013, 02:04:09 pm »
At least it's a non-profit private organization. Any way, the 20 to 40 people are actually just a pool of training astronauts and replacements, plus they are only thinking to send 4 people per trip, one trip every two years. Since we are not yet building space exploration ships in orbit, we do not have a rocket set powerful enough to launch a hu-fucking-mongous 20 to 40 person capacity vehicle from the Earth's surface.

Mars One has planned for initial robotic Mars surface preparation missions that deliver habitats and O2 generation and water extraction equipment. As to long term cosmic ray shielding, tunneling the habitats under the dirt a few meters is effective.

The idea needs to be talked about, but they will probably never raise enough money to be taken seriously by the contractors they want for all the hardware and etc. Kickstarter is not quite on the scale they need, nor is the money from a reality show, no matter how popular that could become worldwide. When looking at NASA's figures for a semi-permanent Mars science station mission, it's on the order of 100's of billions over an eighteen year timeframe. That's a much more ambitious enterprise than Mars One proposes, but still you can see where money is just going to be unobtainable at the level they would need.

All that said, the people working on Mars One are not a bunch of hacks or fools. Most are from the research unis, aerospace industries, or space ministries' programs. The project may not be tenable, but it does have merit in that it keeps the subject of going on a manned mission to Mars alive, at least. I hope it will get people thinking that if we can just flap our hands dismissively at spending 100's of billions on fucking useless wars, why is it so hard to do something positive for all humanity with that money instead?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2013, 11:39:21 pm by mellenORL »
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Over 200,000 seriously don't want to live on this planet anymore.
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2013, 05:03:26 pm »
I do agree that we ought to be spending more on spacefaring tech and less on bullshit.  Especially when one considers that the former is kinda requisite for our long-term survival as a species.  If they can get people on Mars successfully and they can live there long-term, forming a working colony, then more power to 'em.  I'm just hesitant because its...pretty fuckin dangerous.  Likely the single most dangerous thing we as a species would embark upon.

It would be interesting to see how they'd develop, once settled.  See how their economy would evolve and such.  Just so long as the big whigs don't go Ultor on the poor fools at the bottom of the ladder.
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Offline mellenORL

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Re: Over 200,000 seriously don't want to live on this planet anymore.
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2013, 11:58:04 pm »
It occurred to me that Mars One could become tenable if one of the world's government space agencies partnered with them in a joint public/private venture. Japan, China, US or European space agencies could give the project the clout it needs, and offer tax write offs for major corporate and individual donations of money and hardware and expertise. It would be even better if the UN discussed a multi lateral, all agency cooperation proposal with or without Mars One. Otherwise, it seems like I'm gonna be long dead and gone before this next necessary step in human advancement takes place. It makes me wonder just how many early New World exploration ventures just never got funded. Not very many of those would-be explorers could talk up potential investors like Magellan and Columbus did.
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Offline Barbarella

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Re: Over 200,000 seriously don't want to live on this planet anymore.
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2013, 10:29:19 am »
If these people want to die, why such a convoluted fashion? Wouldn't be easier & cheaper to get a gun or something?

I'm not saying that people should kill themselves, I'm just saying "Why a Mars trip"?

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Re: Over 200,000 seriously don't want to live on this planet anymore.
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2013, 10:32:44 am »
It's not so much of "I want to die whatever way possible" more like "I want my life and death to have meaning."
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
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Offline mellenORL

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Re: Over 200,000 seriously don't want to live on this planet anymore.
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2013, 12:39:38 pm »
The Mars One mission plan at the moment is not per se a sure suicide mission in that the astronauts are not determined statistically to 100% to just all die on the way or at any particular time after arrival on Mars in the habitat. It simply does not have a return voyage capability. In other words, it must honestly be described as a one way trip, but there is no reason other than cost and current logistics that a return method could not be developed. The Mars One mission on the surface is designed with ongoing subsurface ice water extraction, O2 production and a shielded habitat station with hydroponic food production and sanitary waste recycling facilities. Ongoing surface explorations, sample collecting and research are planned as well.

As it is now on paper, the very best case scenario is permanent exile with an indeterminedly shortened life span. Probably a very shortened lifespan, but it is unknown, and could be, maybe, on the order of a decade of survival on Mars, at the statistically extreme end, best possible projection.

Recall the moon landings; the lunar lander blasted off back into lunar orbit, coupled with the command module there, the two EVA astronauts them climbed back into the command module, and rode back home within the module (which did a gravity sling shot maneuver to get back - using the momentum from staying in a very fast orbit around the moon during the mission). All of the moon landing missions were honestly and essentially suicide missions as well, since the calculated odds of failure were on the order of 50% or worse, even with the planned return trip aspect.

It is essentially honest and correct to call Mars One a suicide mission. It is inherently very high risk, and even if the astronauts survive long term, they would still have debilitated health and body strength. Long term stays in low, near zero gravity are harmful, which would be the case on the voyage out, plus Mars has a little more than one third the Earth's gravity. Shielding from cosmic ray damage while on board the ship is inevitably inadequate, because not enough shielding can be installed due to weight restrictions since they are taking off in the voyage vehicle from Earth, and not from a voyage vehicle built at an orbiting station. It takes 85% or more of the total mission's rocket fuel just to blast off and escape Earth's gravity well.

Working within Mars One's proposed budget, it is not possible to build and use something like the lunar lander and command module return vehicle; the Mars One voyage vehicle gets abandoned. The reason is that it is many orders of magnitude farther away, and longer in duration (using up life support stores) and more complicated to achieve a there-and-back vehicle system to Mars versus the short jump to the Moon, which had the Earth right next door, just a short hop across the lunar to geo Lagrange points away. It was essentially all done with the gravity sling shot method, nearly no fuel other than navigation adjustment jets and very brief main engine fuel burns. The difference between the lunar and Mars One missions boils down to the "Mass Effect"  :P , as we know it in reality today.
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Offline Shane for Wax

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Re: Over 200,000 seriously don't want to live on this planet anymore.
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2013, 05:08:41 pm »
I want to go because of the Mars Archives. I'm only a hundred and fifty years early, that's all.

(I saw Mass Effect and thought, welp, might as well.)

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