Report on CIA torture is now public

[mellenORL]

It's all over the MSM, but just for reference convenience in this thread...

The United States government paid two military psychologists $80 million to develop torture tactics that were used against suspected terrorists in the wake of the September 11 attacks on the Pentagon and the World Trade Center.

The two men had no direct experience using the waterboard technique. It was never used in their Air Force training. Still, they indicated that it was an “absolutely convincing technique.” They justified the technique by saying that the Navy had used it in training and had not reported any significant long-term consequences on individuals from its use.

However, they did not mention that when the Navy used it in training they only performed single sessions, not multiple sessions. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, a detainee at Guantanamo Bay, for example, was waterboarded 183 times. Nor did they mention that the technique was not exactly new—it dates back to the 14th century.

In fact, none of the so-called “tortures” seems to have been designed or devised by the $80 million duo. For all we know, they pulled a few ideas out of Wikipedia or from an old handbook of Joseph Stalin.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/two-docs-got-dollar80-million-to-develop-torture-tactics/ar-BBgBe3V?ocid=U147DHP

[I am lizard]

Darren Wilson's heroes.

[Nemo]

Well, the wingnuts in my family have reacted on Facebook. They wholeheartedly support what was done by President Bush. They don't ever mention Obama doing it as well (which he did), because every conservative knows that President Obama is a namby pamby manchild who is incapable of ever hurting someone who isn't a "job creator", in which case he is a terrifying jack booted thug. Sadly, progressives aren't immune to this either, as far too often, they give Obama a pass for doing literally the same thing Bush did.

As for Fox News, what did you expect?

[Feral Dog]

Are American's really fooled by the blatant and obvious deflections of questions like that. Its astounding.

Unfortunately yes.

My teabagger stepdad also thinks shouting at your opponent until they give up is a valid form of debate, simply because Fox's "newscasters" use it on their guests.

[R. U. Sirius]

Based on the comments the torture wasn't that bad because:

a) THE JEWSSS DID THIS!

b) It was ok because Russia.

c) Muslims also torture.

d) CIA was just defending usa BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY like they are supposed to.

e) There is no public outrage because the BLACKS have already filled the streets with their riots over the little things like police killing unarmed people and "us crackers" vote rather than chimp out.

EDIT: I am going to say that d at least is refreshingly honest in being openly evil. So many excuses around this subject but a few people honestly think that there is nothing wrong in torture if it is being done by their side.

Washington post had a nice comparison between this report and the testimony by the CIA director:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/cia-interrogation-report/hayden-testimony/

Could someone go down the list and explain what the logical fallacies in B through D are called?

[Sigmaleph]

Based on the comments the torture wasn't that bad because:

a) THE JEWSSS DID THIS!

b) It was ok because Russia.

c) Muslims also torture.

d) CIA was just defending usa BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY like they are supposed to.

e) There is no public outrage because the BLACKS have already filled the streets with their riots over the little things like police killing unarmed people and "us crackers" vote rather than chimp out.

EDIT: I am going to say that d at least is refreshingly honest in being openly evil. So many excuses around this subject but a few people honestly think that there is nothing wrong in torture if it is being done by their side.

Washington post had a nice comparison between this report and the testimony by the CIA director:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/cia-interrogation-report/hayden-testimony/

Could someone go down the list and explain what the logical fallacies in B through D are called?

Not sure what b) is supposed to mean. c) is a relative of tu quoque. d) is not so much a fallacy as simply a false statement.

[Askold]

b) means that torturing people is AOK because do have any fucking idea what Russians do to people?! Like are you aware that they are goddamn savages every single one of them and that is why USA does not have to treat their prisoners any better than the worst countries on Earth do.


Or something like that. (I am not aware of such a major torture organization in Russia but they have certainly violated many human rights.)

Basically it seems to be the same as c which is an implication that since ISIS tortures and beheads people USA has the right to do the same to muslims. (the fact that ISIS wasn't the target when the torture program began is not a problem for the same reasons as why Obama can be blamed for things that happened before he was elected.)

[SCarpelan]

d) CIA was just defending usa BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY like they are supposed to.

I don't think there is an actual fallacy here. If torture worked to defend USA and CIA was allowed to use any means necessary then the statement would actually be true. Both of these premises are of course false.

[I am lizard]

d) CIA was just defending usa BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY like they are supposed to.

I don't think there is an actual fallacy here. If torture worked to defend USA and CIA was allowed to use any means necessary then the statement would actually be true. Both of these premises are of course false.

Yeah, if torture was actually effective I might support it under certain occasions (eg. The Al Bokisiban say they're planning to launch an attack somewhere and we need to know where and how)

But in reality it just serves to get misleading information and violates international law without providing any actual benefits beside getting revenge on people we vaguely suspect of being terrorists. 

[I am lizard]

A few of my Favourite excuse:
"But 9-11!"
"The terrorists do worse!"