Author Topic: Anti-vaxxers are dumb thread  (Read 17708 times)

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Offline dpareja

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Anti-vaxxers are dumb thread
« on: March 14, 2014, 10:39:29 am »
So instead of creating a new thread for every anti-vaccine idiocy that shows up, I think it would be best to consolidate them in one thread. (Mods, if this belongs in S&H, please move it.)

So for our first entry, "I'm fine with other kids getting vaccines, just not mine!":

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-family-furious-teen-vaccinated-without-parental-consent-1.2570354

Quote
A B.C. couple are furious after public health nurses vaccinated their teenage daughter at school without parental consent.

Dean Bootsma said his 14-year-old daughter was pulled out of her Grade 9 class and inoculated against tetanus, diphtheria and pertussis (whooping cough) without checking her medical history, calling him or his wife, or having them sign a consent form.

"The fact that they did this without our knowledge or consent sickens me, sickens me. I've never felt so violated," said Bootsma.

Bootsma said he and his wife are not against vaccines in general, but have chosen not to vaccinate their children out of worry they may be predisposed to an adverse reaction. The couple say their first daughter developed a high fever hours after being inoculated.

There's a wrinkle, though:

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Bootsma said he had no idea children are allowed to make their own medical decisions in B.C.

Under the B.C. Infants Act, however, parents do not need to sign a consent form for children 14 years of age and older to be inoculated, as long as a doctor or nurse believes the child is mature enough to understand the risks and benefits of the treatment.

But the daughter said she was never asked about her medical history, or if she was, she couldn't hear the nurse:

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Bootsma's 14-year-old daughter, who did not want to be named to protect her privacy, told CBC News she was not asked about any medical history of an adverse reaction. Had she been asked, she said, she would have told nurses, "My sister in the past had an allergic reaction to it. So I would have said yes, but they never asked me."

Bootsma also said his daughter is not mature enough to make medical decisions and was too shy to question nurses.

"I didn’t really know what to do, and she didn’t really give me an option to not get a vaccine," said the girl.

"She tried explaining it to me, I guess, but I couldn’t really hear her over everyone else."

The Health Authority is claiming that everything went as it should:

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The Fraser Health Authority would not talk about this particular case, but said its nurses followed the legal procedure for obtaining mature minor consent.

And one final thing:

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Kendall said that with inoculation rates in Canada down to just 84 per cent, public health nurses are just doing their job. He said they are actively trying to boost those numbers when they visit schools for routine Grade 9 booster shots.

Bye-bye herd immunity!

EDIT: Also, CBC readers are backing the family.

http://www.cbc.ca/newsblogs/yourcommunity/2014/03/cbc-readers-outraged-bc-teen-vaccinated-without-parental-consent.html
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Anti-vaxxers are dumb thread
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2014, 11:34:02 am »
It is kinda fucked up that they didn't ask about any medical history prior to giving the kids the vaccines...isn't such a thing standard operating procedure?  If you're going to punish the nurses who did this for anything, punish them for not following proper procedure that's in place to keep people fucking safe.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Anti-vaxxers are dumb thread
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2014, 11:41:07 am »
It is kinda fucked up that they didn't ask about any medical history prior to giving the kids the vaccines...isn't such a thing standard operating procedure?  If you're going to punish the nurses who did this for anything, punish them for not following proper procedure that's in place to keep people fucking safe.

Thing is, the nurses (or at least the Health Authority) claim they did follow proper procedure.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Anti-vaxxers are dumb thread
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2014, 01:47:20 pm »
It is kinda fucked up that they didn't ask about any medical history prior to giving the kids the vaccines...isn't such a thing standard operating procedure?  If you're going to punish the nurses who did this for anything, punish them for not following proper procedure that's in place to keep people fucking safe.

Thing is, the nurses (or at least the Health Authority) claim they did follow proper procedure.

Well, they would. Doesn't seem they have much to gain for saying otherwise.

The story sounds suspiciously like the girl was bullied into giving consent. Anti-vaxers are idiots, but that doesn't excuse pulling this kind of bullshit.
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Offline unknown

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Re: Anti-vaxxers are dumb thread
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2014, 05:45:16 pm »
Came across this article.

I didn't read it, but I'm posting it for the comments.  God, the stupid coming out of it.  A lot of "what if it was your child fighting for their life because of vaccines![/i]"  Also a claim of "the top bio scientists don't vaccinate for a reason!" and "vaccines cause such-and-such condition and they don't treat for the same reason they don't treat autism!" and anti-vaxxers throwing a bunch of links around.  And then there's this batch of crazy:

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My grandmother had 10 children and ALL of them had the measles as children and NONE of them died or had any lasting consequences from the disease! My grandmother herself had the measles as well along with her 13 siblings and NONE died or had any lasting consequences. Suck it up!! Back in those days, no one went to the hospital for measles...The only ones at risk for dying from any infectious disease are the weak members of society. How do you become a strong member of society who can fight off disease without a hitch??? iT starts with your diet!! Until people realize that our bodies are not stupid and that it biologically wants nothing more than to survive, the pharmaceutical industry will have you all by the balls. My son is not vaccinated and will never be vaccinated and guess what? HE NEVER GETS SICK...EVER! I'm not scared of any disease not even polio because I have studied all about infectious diseases and I know my boy is strong enough and healthy enough to fight off anything. I take care of him with an impeccable organic, home cooked diet. My son doesn't know what a chicken mcnugget is and never will as long as I can control what he consumes. I give my son fermented cod liver oil, probiotics, briar rose, elderberry syrup and he was breastfed, just to name a few of the things I do to keep him healthy! Now think about your diseased child's last meal, probably now even close to my son's meal. It was probably some sort of fast food garbage with some sort of soda....that is irresponsible and negligent in my book. vaccines aren't going to keep you healthy people! When diet is wrong, medicine is of no use. When diet is right, medicine is of no need. Many scholars have linked the polio epidemic to the beginning wide spread use of DDT and the beginning of a high refined sugar diet!! but you all are so busy listening to your shit head pediatrician that you choose to not read any relevant historical information.

I like how people treat vaccines like the most dangerous thing because "some kids somewhere got sick"  and yet when people die from measles, the reaction is, "well I didn't die, so it can't be that bad!"

Offline The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist

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Re: Anti-vaxxers are dumb thread
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2014, 06:19:17 pm »
Quote
My grandmother had 10 children and ALL of them had the measles as children and NONE of them died or had any lasting consequences from the disease! My grandmother herself had the measles as well along with her 13 siblings and NONE died or had any lasting consequences. Suck it up!!

Your anecdotes do not refute actual data.

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The only ones at risk for dying from any infectious disease are the weak members of society.

Who are still human beings, and thus entitled to survive.

In any case, otherwise healthy people can still suffer complications or die from common childhood diseases.

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How do you become a strong member of society who can fight off disease without a hitch??? iT starts with your diet!!

1) Yes, a balanced diet is good for your overall heath. It won't magically prevent you from catching any and all diseases, though.
2) Not everyone can afford tons of fresh produce and healthier grains, meats, etc. What have you done to change this, other than judging people on the internet? If the answer is "nothing", you're quite welcome to shut the fuck up.
3) Fuck off with your thinly veiled eugenics nonsense.

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Until people realize that our bodies are not stupid and that it biologically wants nothing more than to survive, the pharmaceutical industry will have you all by the balls.

Gee, our bodies have evolved to survive? Who would have thought? Here's the thing: Evolution isn't perfect. Fortunately for us, our brains have evolved to the point where we have the intelligence to develop means of bolstering what nature has given us -- like, say, vaccines.

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My son is not vaccinated and will never be vaccinated and guess what? HE NEVER GETS SICK...EVER!


Awesome, more anecdotes.

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I'm not scared of any disease not even polio

I'm not scared of polio either. You know why? It's been eradicated in the western hemisphere, and a good chunk of the eastern half of the planet as well. You can thank vaccination programs for that, you ungrateful, spoiled little shit.

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healthy diet wharrgarbl

Organic and fad health foods are expensive, so 'grats on being well off, I guess? Again, not everyone has the money to feed their child a helicopter parent diet, nor can everyone take a year or so off work to breastfeed their baby. More to the point, nothing your kid eats is going to make him immune to serious diseases, and it's certainly not going to prevent him from spreading them to the aforementioned "weak members of society". Even at peak physical condition, the immune system isn't a magical invincibility spell.
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Offline Ironchew

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Re: Anti-vaxxers are dumb thread
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2014, 06:44:35 pm »
Even otherwise reasonable people tend to drink the antivax kool-aid when it comes to flu shots. It's anecdotal on my end, but I've heard more people talk about flu shot conspiracies than the other vaccines.
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Offline The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist

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Re: Anti-vaxxers are dumb thread
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2014, 06:47:35 pm »
Even otherwise reasonable people tend to drink the antivax kool-aid when it comes to flu shots. It's anecdotal on my end, but I've heard more people talk about flu shot conspiracies than the other vaccines.

I've seen it as well. I'm required to get a flu shot for my job, and every single year I get lectured on the "dangers" by friends and family.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Anti-vaxxers are dumb thread
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2014, 07:56:21 pm »
Even otherwise reasonable people tend to drink the antivax kool-aid when it comes to flu shots. It's anecdotal on my end, but I've heard more people talk about flu shot conspiracies than the other vaccines.

I've seen it as well. I'm required to get a flu shot for my job, and every single year I get lectured on the "dangers" by friends and family.

I almost never get that, thankfully. My mom is a health care professional and I was diagnosed with a compromised immune system quite young, so I always get a flu shot and keep it more or less to myself that I do.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

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Re: Anti-vaxxers are dumb thread
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2014, 08:01:50 pm »
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Offline unknown

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Re: Anti-vaxxers are dumb thread
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2014, 08:55:19 pm »
Another big problem (and it comes up a lot) is the "if vaccines work like you claim, then you should have nothing to worry about with everyone refusing to vaccinate their kids" argument.  This completely ignores people who can't, rather than won't, get vaccines.

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Re: Anti-vaxxers are dumb thread
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2014, 09:49:40 pm »
My family still believes in this whole "cocktail of poisons such as mercury" crock. Should I try to disprove them with sources or is the whole "mercury" thing true?

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Re: Anti-vaxxers are dumb thread
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2014, 09:53:42 pm »
Vaccines have mercery but I think it's such a small and non lethal amount that it's not worth mentioning since I think you consume more mercury from fish than you will get from a vaccine.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Anti-vaxxers are dumb thread
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2014, 09:54:17 pm »
My family still believes in this whole "cocktail of poisons such as mercury" crock. Should I try to disprove them with sources or is the whole "mercury" thing true?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal_controversy
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

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Re: Anti-vaxxers are dumb thread
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2014, 10:16:49 pm »
Another big problem (and it comes up a lot) is the "if vaccines work like you claim, then you should have nothing to worry about with everyone refusing to vaccinate their kids" argument.  This completely ignores people who can't, rather than won't, get vaccines.

Not to mention that vaccines aren't perfect, despite greatly reducing the probability of contracting the disease. Herd immunity is crucial to stamping out illnesses like small pox, polio and so on.
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