Author Topic: Woman successfully sues site for enabling rapists  (Read 3134 times)

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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Woman successfully sues site for enabling rapists
« on: June 04, 2016, 06:36:08 am »
In a development that's guaranteed to get Free Speech advocates jimmies rustled a woman who was drugged and raped by two guys posing as modelling agents for a porn series titled Miami's Nastiest Nymphos has successfully sued the website Model Mayhem. A myspace like site where aspiring models can advertise their portfolios.

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Model Mayhem is a networking website, found at modelmayhem.com, for people in the modeling industry. Plaintiff Jane Doe, an aspiring model who posted information about herself on the website, alleges that two rapists used the website to lure her to a fake audition, where they drugged her, raped her, and recorded her for a pornographic video. She also alleges that Defendant Internet Brands, the company that owns the website, knew about the rapists but did not warn her or the website’s other users. She filed an action against Internet Brands alleging liability for negligence under California law based on that failure to warn. The district court dismissed the action on the ground that her claim was barred by the Communications Decency Act
(“CDA”), 47 U.S.C. § 230(c) (2012). We conclude that the CDA does not bar the claim. We reverse and remand for further proceedings.

Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act is the section most often cited for allowing websites to claim no liability for the actions of third party users. Now that this has been challenged expect to see a whole lot of fur flying. I for one am glad that webmasters are finally having to sweat a bit about the worst excesses they allow on their spaces.

Offline Askold

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Re: Woman successfully sues site for enabling rapists
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2016, 06:57:36 am »
I have trouble operating the VICE website on my phone but it seems like her case makes sense. The website owners were aware that their site had been used for crimes (specifically by rapists who lured victims by pretending to be casting agents on the site) but they did nothing.

It was probably because they were afraid of bad pr but that is just stupid. You would think that being able to trust that the users are legit and NOT RAPISTS is even better pr...

Though I am not sure how this goes legally, I would like to see more accountability from website operators.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Woman successfully sues site for enabling rapists
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2016, 07:20:37 am »
I don't think that "prevent rapey rapists from using your modelling site to do more rapes like they did using your site in the very recent past" should even be controversial.

That said...

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Facebook, Google, and Craigslist are desperate to prevent her from seeking damages; the three companies claimed in a court brief that such a decision would have a "chilling effect" on the web and inhibit free speech.

Because of this I strongly suspect the aforementioned big players will try to have the case appealed and they have deep pockets.

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Woman successfully sues site for enabling rapists
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2016, 10:35:44 am »
I don't think that "prevent rapey rapists from using your modelling site to do more rapes like they did using your site in the very recent past" should even be controversial.

"Prevent rape" is not controversial because it's not actually policy, it's a desired end result.

How should Model Mayhem have acted? That's a more interesting question, I think. Warn users, ok. Would including a sentence in their terms of use that said "warning, don't take everything a user says here at face value" have been enough? Maybe that suffices to say that failure to warn does not apply anymore. It would also be completely useless because nobody reads terms of use, and if they do the abstract reminder that people lie on the internet is not going to make people always be able to tell who is actually lying.

So what could Model Mayhem have done, then? Assuming the rapists are the least bit competent, they would have used different names the second time around. should the website have been required to ask for real name identities for every user? And ID to prove it, and some actual staff to check?

The reason Facebook et al don't want this to go through is because they are giant services through which an immense volume of information is exchanged and they cannot possibly check all of it, or even a fraction of it. If they start to be held legally responsible for it, they cannot operate anymore. Or they start to have shitty policies nobody likes that destroy anonymity and with it privacy.

Like. Remember how the entire internet complained about how ridiculous it was that Youtube shut down Team Four Star a while back? The reason Youtube's policy favours shutting things down first and asking questions later is because they can be held legally responsible for copyright violations in their website. The reason free speech advocates don't like the idea of holding websites responsible for user content is that there is too much user content in this kind of website for anything remotely like reasonable moderation to take place. So they have to go automated and erring on the side of shutting things down.

Remember when some websites started saying we need to demand real name identities and stop anonymity, and people pointed out that some of us are anonymous on the internet for very good reasons?


Let's figure out how to stop rapists from using the internet to rape. I'm 100% behind that. But, y'know, at least figure out how we want to do that and what amount of responsibility for user content we want websites to have.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Woman successfully sues site for enabling rapists
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2016, 10:40:06 am »
Yep, absolutely the rapists could have been sneaky and used fake names, masked their IP etc, etc. The website can't change that.

But the website can banhammer them and do it again if they pop up again using a sock. That is within their power. I'm not saying they should be omnipotent or omniscient, but if they know someone is using their service to look for rape victims then they should do what they can.

Lets not forget, these guys weren't anonymous randos once they were arrested and charged. They were a known quantity and specifically, the website themselves should have known and acted.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 10:42:20 am by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline The_Queen

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Re: Woman successfully sues site for enabling rapists
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2016, 11:00:55 am »
I don't think that "prevent rapey rapists from using your modelling site to do more rapes like they did using your site in the very recent past" should even be controversial.

That said...

Quote
Facebook, Google, and Craigslist are desperate to prevent her from seeking damages; the three companies claimed in a court brief that such a decision would have a "chilling effect" on the web and inhibit free speech.

Because of this I strongly suspect the aforementioned big players will try to have the case appealed and they have deep pockets.

Which is really stupid. Once they have knowledge* that the rapists had done this before, they knew that he could do it again, and had a duty to the plaintiff to warn her of dangers associated with using their service. If this were purely done in real life, there wouldn't even be a question of tort liability on the part of the website owner, as this is textbook negligence. In fact, there is a tort called "negligent referral" in which doctors and lawyers can be held liable for referring a potential client to another doctor/lawyer that the first doctor/lawyer knew did not operate according to the standards of care. Literally, I could be held liable for something far less damaging than what this woman endured.

*This is only at the complaint stage, and most lawyers at this point will claim the defendant had knowledge, even if they didn't. They do this because it is necessary to save the complaint from a 12(b)(6) motion to dismiss, and because discovery may show that the site did have that knowledge. At the complaint stage, the allegations of the plaintiff are taken as true. After or during discovery, the defendant can dismiss the case under summary judgment if it can show that there is "no issue of material fact and that defendant should win as a matter of law." These are two vehicles used by the court to dismiss flawed cases before trial. So, for purposes of the thread, I'll assume that the site did know about the rapists beforehand, because I feel this discussion is less about legal standards (what Plaintiffs can prove and when plaintiffs can prove it) and more about the extent websites can be liable.

I don't think that "prevent rapey rapists from using your modelling site to do more rapes like they did using your site in the very recent past" should even be controversial.

"Prevent rape" is not controversial because it's not actually policy, it's a desired end result.

How should Model Mayhem have acted? That's a more interesting question, I think. Warn users, ok.

1. Prevent rape is not the desired end. The desired end to hold the site liable for its failure to acting irresponsibly in a manner that injured a woman in the community. The site knew of the rapists beforehand. At this point, it had a duty to ANYONE using ITS SERVICE to warn of potential dangers. It would be no different if we replaced rapists with robbers, assailants, or murderers. The desired end is to get the website to say "hey, we know these people are bad eggs or had complaints of serious wrong doing against them for their use on our server; you should know about this before you meet them."

2. Specifically, torts are comprised of four elements: a duty, a breach, an injury, and a cause. Once an actor has knowledge of a danger, it has a duty to warn others of the duty. The website knew. The website did not warn her, constituting a breach. She was raped, constituting an injury. That leaves cause. Now, it is a mistake to focus on whether the rape itself was caused by the site, that is NOT what the law asks. The proper question is whether she would've gone to the rape-session-photo-shoot if she had known that the cameramen who called her had a history of drugging and raping women. If so, then the actions of the website were a partial cause for her injuries. Again, she is NOT suing them for the rape. She could've been raped by first time rapists she met at a Starbucks. She is suing them for their negligence which contributed to it. Again, this is a text book case of negligence.

3. FB and the other sites are making much ado about nothing, because this isn't liability for any injury, but only injuries done by people that the site knew were a danger. The site could set up a function warning users that certain people have had complaints against them. The site could hand out bans or temp bans until the facts are discovered. Sites like Model Mayhem could issue background checks for its photographers before letting them use the service.

ETA: and the thread title is misleading. The 9th Circuit simply said that she COULD sue because her motion survived 12(b)(6) scrutiny, also known as the motion to dismiss stage. Specifically, the parties go to trial, the lawyers do their talking, defendants filed for a motion to dismiss, and the court said no. At this point, the defendants appealed and the Ninth District said "Frig off Ricky." So, now the case is sent back to the district court to proceed as it normally would, through discovery, and onto trial. Her suit is not successful, but this makes it considerably more likely that the case will settle.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 11:07:15 am by The_Queen »
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Woman successfully sues site for enabling rapists
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2016, 11:23:56 am »
"Prevent rape" is not controversial because it's not actually policy, it's a desired end result.

How should Model Mayhem have acted? That's a more interesting question, I think. Warn users, ok.

1. Prevent rape is not the desired end. The desired end to hold the site liable for its failure to acting irresponsibly in a manner that injured a woman in the community. The site knew of the rapists beforehand. At this point, it had a duty to ANYONE using ITS SERVICE to warn of potential dangers. It would be no different if we replaced rapists with robbers, assailants, or murderers. The desired end is to get the website to say "hey, we know these people are bad eggs or had complaints of serious wrong doing against them for their use on our server; you should know about this before you meet them."

Um. What exactly is the point of holding Model Mayhem liable for this if not prevent future rapes? Or possibly future abuses of the site in general, I guess. But "holding someone liable" seems instrumental, not terminal.

Quote
2. Specifically, torts are comprised of four elements: a duty, a breach, an injury, and a cause. Once an actor has knowledge of a danger, it has a duty to warn others of the duty. The website knew. The website did not warn her, constituting a breach. She was raped, constituting an injury. That leaves cause. Now, it is a mistake to focus on whether the rape itself was caused by the site, that is NOT what the law asks. The proper question is whether she would've gone to the rape-session-photo-shoot if she had known that the cameramen who called her had a history of drugging and raping women. If so, then the actions of the website were a partial cause for her injuries. Again, she is NOT suing them for the rape. She could've been raped by first time rapists she met at a Starbucks. She is suing them for their negligence which contributed to it. Again, this is a text book case of negligence.

What would count as warning her? Would adding a line to Terms of Use* that says "warning, people have in the past misrepresented themselves in order to commit crimes" be sufficient?

*or some other "checkbox that you read this before joining" document
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: Woman successfully sues site for enabling rapists
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2016, 11:58:10 am »
"Prevent rape" is not controversial because it's not actually policy, it's a desired end result.

How should Model Mayhem have acted? That's a more interesting question, I think. Warn users, ok.

1. Prevent rape is not the desired end. The desired end to hold the site liable for its failure to acting irresponsibly in a manner that injured a woman in the community. The site knew of the rapists beforehand. At this point, it had a duty to ANYONE using ITS SERVICE to warn of potential dangers. It would be no different if we replaced rapists with robbers, assailants, or murderers. The desired end is to get the website to say "hey, we know these people are bad eggs or had complaints of serious wrong doing against them for their use on our server; you should know about this before you meet them."

Um. What exactly is the point of holding Model Mayhem liable for this if not prevent future rapes? Or possibly future abuses of the site in general, I guess. But "holding someone liable" seems instrumental, not terminal.

Again, the desired end is not to stop rapes. Stopping rapes is merely incidental to the desired end of making sure sites warn of known dangers. I repeat, this is the same standard as we hold people in society to. If the site knows of a danger, then it has a duty to warn of this danger. Model Mayhem did not warn of the danger that it was aware of. The end is to encourage the site, and future sites, to act more responsibly towards society, and to warn its users of known dangers on the site

Quote
2. Specifically, torts are comprised of four elements: a duty, a breach, an injury, and a cause. Once an actor has knowledge of a danger, it has a duty to warn others of the duty. The website knew. The website did not warn her, constituting a breach. She was raped, constituting an injury. That leaves cause. Now, it is a mistake to focus on whether the rape itself was caused by the site, that is NOT what the law asks. The proper question is whether she would've gone to the rape-session-photo-shoot if she had known that the cameramen who called her had a history of drugging and raping women. If so, then the actions of the website were a partial cause for her injuries. Again, she is NOT suing them for the rape. She could've been raped by first time rapists she met at a Starbucks. She is suing them for their negligence which contributed to it. Again, this is a text book case of negligence.

What would count as warning her? Would adding a line to Terms of Use* that says "warning, people have in the past misrepresented themselves in order to commit crimes" be sufficient?

*or some other "checkbox that you read this before joining" document

The terms of use idea probably wouldn't work. It's a contract of adhesion that courts know people don't read, and disclaiming all liability would more than likely be seen as an unconscionable term in the contract that a court would strike from the contract. Then again, it may not. Depends on how the contract is written and the extent of the assumption of risk (alongside the surrounding facts). Either way, such a term of service doesn't go to the duty of warning her under negligence as much as it shifts the risk of injury away from the tortfeasor to the user. In essence, it is a contractual assumption of risk on the part of the user.

As for what would count to defeat this, the standard would be what is reasonable in light of the circumstances. So, for a person using facebook in his second robbery would be considerably different than a guy using Model Mayhem to rape 100 women. But simple solutions: sending a message to users in contact with known dangerous users, banning the users or temporarily banning them until more facts are discovered, creating a page with complaints about users (you could even clarify that some of the accusations are unsubstantiated), monitoring the usage of known dangerous users and disclosing to potential victims the risk, putting a mark that some users have flagged a certain user as dangerous, or reporting accusations of dangerous activity to the police and letting law enforcement sort it out. The list is limitless because most of the time, any attempt to warn users of a known danger will suffice, whereas here Model Mayhem did nothing after 100 women were raped (and from that alone, I'm suspecting the site had considerable knowledge of the rapists' activity).
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Offline Askold

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Re: Woman successfully sues site for enabling rapists
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2016, 04:35:43 pm »
Facebook, Google and the others are afraid because they know that they can't COMPLETELY prevent rapists (and other criminals) from using their services while looking for victims. But I am pretty sure that even if the laws will be changed so that the websites have to do something about this that "something" will be defined and it will be reasonable.

Like in this rape case, warning the users that a hundred women had already been raped by people they met through the site! Or IP-banning people who violate the rules (ok, this bit is just a nuisance to computer savvy crooks.) And how about they demand some kind of identification or verification from people who are using the site for commercial purposes? I mean, using a website to find models isn't the same as everyone and their cat having an FB-page.
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Offline Canadian Mojo

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Re: Woman successfully sues site for enabling rapists
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2016, 07:07:56 pm »
The reason Facebook et al don't want this to go through is because they are giant services through which an immense volume of information is exchanged and they cannot possibly check all of it, or even a fraction of it. If they start to be held legally responsible for it, they cannot operate anymore. Or they start to have shitty policies nobody likes that destroy anonymity and with it privacy.

The problem with that argument is that it is really just another version of 'too big to fail so fuck you.' Imagine Ford trying to claim immunity from responsibility by saying 'we make millions of cars, we can't possibly test the brakes on all of them.' Exxon claiming 'we can't possibly follow environmental health and safety regulations and make money.' I can't make a living as a horse buggy whip repairman; it doesn't mean society owes me the right to make a living at it. We don't owe them anything either if they can't play by the rules.

If model mayhem operated an old school brick and mortar model agency and this happened, would it even be open for debate?

As an aside, unlike Model Mayhem, the function of Facebook isn't to physically bring people together, it's purpose is to facilitate communication, so it's responsibility to it's clients should be considerably less. Since the communication occurs in real time they are effectively blind to it which makes them similar to the postal service or the phone company, and realistically, a similar expectation of their responsibilities.

Offline The_Queen

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Re: Woman successfully sues site for enabling rapists
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2016, 07:24:52 pm »
The problem with that argument is that it is really just another version of 'too big to fail so fuck you.' Imagine Ford trying to claim immunity from responsibility by saying 'we make millions of cars, we can't possibly test the brakes on all of them.' Exxon claiming 'we can't possibly follow environmental health and safety regulations and make money.' I can't make a living as a horse buggy whip repairman; it doesn't mean society owes me the right to make a living at it. We don't owe them anything either if they can't play by the rules.

If model mayhem operated an old school brick and mortar model agency and this happened, would it even be open for debate?

As an aside, unlike Model Mayhem, the function of Facebook isn't to physically bring people together, it's purpose is to facilitate communication, so it's responsibility to it's clients should be considerably less. Since the communication occurs in real time they are effectively blind to it which makes them similar to the postal service or the phone company, and realistically, a similar expectation of their responsibilities.

The other side is that the surrounding facts make facebook far less likely to be liable. Most people who talk on facebook are friends in real life beforehand. Most people do not use facebook to meet new people or to set up meetings (anymore than say, a cell-phone). The reason that facebook et al are fighting this is not because they fear that someone may get assaulted and that they'll wind up liable without any warning. Indeed, affirmative knowledge of wrongdoing is a vital element; this is not something that is going to sneak up on a website. Hypothetically, if there were a person on facebook soliciting girls to model for him, drugging them, and raping them, and if Facebook had 2 dozen complaints of rape and chose to ignore the problem, then facebook could be liable. Facebook is opposing this interpretation of the law because it doesn't want to have to take action when bad-eggs arise, as that is just administratively easier for the mega-site going forward. But I belabor the point, if facebook does not have actual knowledge of the wrongdoing, then it will not have anything to worry about.
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Woman successfully sues site for enabling rapists
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2016, 10:21:52 pm »
For the record, re-readining the articles and reading Queen's post I've changed my mind and think there are some common-sense measures Model Mayhem should have taken and did not.

I'm still curious why Facebook et al are worried about it weakening Section 230 of the CDA.
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: Woman successfully sues site for enabling rapists
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2016, 10:36:12 pm »
For the record, re-readining the articles and reading Queen's post I've changed my mind and think there are some common-sense measures Model Mayhem should have taken and did not.

I'm still curious why Facebook et al are worried about it weakening Section 230 of the CDA.

Profit, because (1) FB would not be able to be sued if it fucks up (as opposed to being sued only if it fucks up) and (2) FB doesn't have to invest the man hours or hire more employees to monitor reports of serious criminal allegations for which its website was the catalyst.
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Re: Woman successfully sues site for enabling rapists
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2016, 01:07:02 am »
For the record, re-readining the articles and reading Queen's post I've changed my mind and think there are some common-sense measures Model Mayhem should have taken and did not.

I'm still curious why Facebook et al are worried about it weakening Section 230 of the CDA.

Profit, because (1) FB would not be able to be sued if it fucks up (as opposed to being sued only if it fucks up) and (2) FB doesn't have to invest the man hours or hire more employees to monitor reports of serious criminal allegations for which its website was the catalyst.
And here is the crux of the matter, these companies are only using the freeze peach argument because it benefits their short term profits. Google for fucks sake does not hold free speech to be sacred-if they did they wouldn't merrily cooperate with the Chinese government.

Businesses do not like costs, having to put in safety measures-any safety measures is a cost. This is why they must be made to do so.