FSTDT Forums
Community => Politics and Government => Topic started by: DasFuchs on January 15, 2012, 12:27:11 am
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http://ncse.com/news/2012/01/intelligent-design-bill-missouri-007092 (http://ncse.com/news/2012/01/intelligent-design-bill-missouri-007092)
House Bill 1227, introduced in the Missouri House of Representatives on January 10, 2012, would, if enacted, require "the equal treatment of science instruction regarding evolution and intelligent design," according to the legislature's summary of the bill. The equal treatment provision would apply to both public elementary and secondary schools and to "any introductory science course taught at any public institution of higher education" in Missouri.
Shit, it's moving north.
In a way I kinda hope it does pass and that the state gets flooded with demands for tons of other creation ideas to be crammed in till nothing gets taught. But i know that'll never happen...so maybe just a smack upside the politicians' heads with a 2x4
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As a comedian (can't remember which one) said: Teaching creationism alongside evolution is like teaching the stork theory alongside sex ed.
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While we're at it, science should give equal treatment to the Thor's Hammer theory of thunder and the God Peeing theory of rain. Not to mention, the Monster-Eating-the-Sun theory of solar eclipses, because we're hosed if we don't bang on pots and pans during the next eclipse and the monster doesn't spit the sun back out!
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Tell the kids to get their notebooks out, that's a lot to remember!
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I'm from Missouri- didn't even know this. Anyways, I say let them do it...Teaching this shit for the reasons they do always fails. Kids will still have sex, be little ingrates, and loathe church.
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Someone else said, "Why does chemistry get favored? We should teach alchemy alongside it."
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While we're at it, science should give equal treatment to the Thor's Hammer theory of thunder and the God Peeing theory of rain. Not to mention, the Monster-Eating-the-Sun theory of solar eclipses, because we're hosed if we don't bang on pots and pans during the next eclipse and the monster doesn't spit the sun back out!
Sure, I'll give them equal treatment. Put up or shut up. No myth has stood up the the theory of evolution, and I'm willing to bet no myth ever will. If the theory of evolution is ever disproven, it will be because of the hard work of scientists using empiricism and not by the whinging of religious fundamentalists.
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Hey, why stop at evolution/intelligent design? There are plenty of “controversies†to teach. Stork versus Cabbage Patch versus Sex! Thor versus Zeus versus Electrical Discharge! Electronics versus Magic Smoke! I think this bill needs some serious expansion.
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I posit the theory that technology is actually magic.
This must now be taught alongside any book on any technology.
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Aliens built the pyramids.
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To quote Lewis Black; "There are people who believe that humans dinosaurs co-existed, that they roamed the Earth at the same time. There are museums that children go to, in which they build dioramas to show them this. And what this is, purely and simply, is a clinical psychotic reaction. They are crazy. They are stone-cold-fuck nuts. I can't be kind about this, because these people are watching The Flinstones as if it were a documentary."
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How do you teach creationism? "Goddidit" is one word, right? Where do you go from there?
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The only way I could see this as a good thing is if they taught each one without bias. I bet most, if not all, the kids would realize how silly and dumb creationism really is.
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The only way I could see this as a good thing is if they taught each one without bias. I bet most, if not all, the kids would realize how silly and dumb creationism really is.
I seriously doubt that. Most of these "heartland" kids have been raised in Christian homes and go to church each and every Sunday. They are not unfamiliar with the creation story of the Bible and therefore most would accept without exception that creationism is true. A few may see through the bullshit, but I think you well overestimate the number of students that would see evolution as more fitting the evidence.
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The only way I could see this as a good thing is if they taught each one without bias. I bet most, if not all, the kids would realize how silly and dumb creationism really is.
You can't really do that when you don't know what the ToE even entails. This "controversy" has gone on for a few generations, so a lot of the teachers don't even know what they're teaching.
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Gah! It's like my state is in some weird race with texas and Oklahoma to be the most ass backwards.
We had a bill to make Christianity the state religion.
We were among the first to ban gay marriage in our constitution
We have people who want to repeal child labor laws.
and now this bull shit.
And yeah, having seen many of my fellow Missourians, they would happily accept creationism simply because their pastor told them it's in the bible (As I highly doubt many of them have ever bothered to read the book)
(though that's entirely fair. When I did live in the country, many were very Pagan friendly so they aren't all bad. But there are enough assholes to broad brush the rest of us with.)
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I posit the theory that technology is actually magic.
I support this. As far as I know, a wizard powers my computer.
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Not shocked by this, it's Missouri, it's the state that has produced the Blunts, and Ashcoft. I also blame the state for turning my aunt into a teabagger. And there are many parts of the state that are like Fundieville USA.
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I posit the theory that technology is actually magic.
I support this. As far as I know, a wizard powers my computer.
Only if you run Linux. If you're running Windows, it's run by bound elementals. Elves if you've got a Mac.
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Seriously, guys? The Scopes Trial was almost a hundred years ago. You're pulling this shit again? The Theory of Evolution has been a proven fact for almost 150 years, not to mention that it is the fundamental basis from which the entire field of modern biology is derived. I would tell you to join the rest of us in the 21st century, but apparently you haven't even entered the 20th yet.
You keep saying "all viewpoints deserve equal consideration" even though we have already considered them many times over and subsequently determined them to be nothing more than the inane ramblings of one specific group of bronze-age goat herders wandering around in the middle of a desert. But even if we hadn't already considered them, A high school science classroom is not the place to do so.
What the hell is there to teach, anyway?
"Welcome to 7th grade biology, everyone! Come get your free Ritalin!
"Mr. Teacher, how did all of the various forms of life appear on earth?"
"Well, Billy Joe, God did it. Okay kids, now write that down 200 times while I play solitaire and jerk off to leaked nudes of Scarlett Johansson under my desk."
Of course, By "God" you always mean the Christian god, since you're the very same people would flip their shit at the prospect of someone teaching, say, the Islamic or Hindu creation myths in schools.
That's not even getting into intellectual and scientific validity of the Biblical creation myth itself. I would say that the entire thing sounds like a product of the vivid imagination of one particularly bored 3rd grader, but that would be a grave insult to bored 3rd graders, so I won't. Safe to say, teaching creationism in a science class is like teaching about the stork in sex ed.
That's not to say the you have even the slightest chance of actually succeeding. This issue has previously been brought up in a federal court in 17 separate instances, and you have lost miserably in every single one of them.
Epperson v. Arkansas (1968)
Lemon v. Kurtzman (1971)
Wright v. Houston I. S. D. (1972)
Willoughby v. Stever (1973)
Daniel v. Waters (1975)
Crowley v. Smithsonian Institution (1980)
Segraves v. State of California (1981)
McLean v. Arkansas Board of Education (1981)
Edwards v. Aguillard - 1987
Webster v. New Lenox School District (1990)
Bishop v. Aronov (1991)
Peloza v. Capistrano School District (1994)
Freiler v. Tangipahoa Parish Board of Education (1997)
Rodney LeVake v. Independent School District 656, et al. (2000)
Pfeifer v City of West Allis (2000)
Selman v. Cobb County School District (2002)
Dover v. Kitzmiller (2005)
Now you're trying to make it 18? Do you even know what "prior legal precedent" means?
Hint: It means that your current efforts are futile. If you do not have a more substantial case this time (And I highly doubt that you do) they are just going to automatically defer to the final ruling put forth in all of those other cases I just listed. They're not going to suddenly change their minds just because you bring it up again.
How many more times do we have to legally bitch-slap you with the Constitution before you finally get it?
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I always felt that this comic from Saturday morning breakfast cereal summarizes my feelings on this issue best.
Of course, I also eagerly await the judgement when this gets its ass handed to it in court. Its always fun listening to a judge verbally abuse the intelligent design proponents.
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How do you teach creationism? "Goddidit" is one word, right? Where do you go from there?
Given how all the ID vs Science go, it'll be five seconds for Goddidit and the rest of the time bashing science ad lying about it
Aliens built the pyramids.
*sighs* Unfortunately certain channels like the History channel present this stuff like it was fact...Heck, I play games with my friends when they're here. "5 bucks we shoot over to the H channel and they're talking about aliens"
And there are many parts of the state that are like Fundieville USA.
If I remember right, the opening credits to Moral Orel zoom in on a part of Missouri renamed "Statesota" and the town Moralton
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And there are many parts of the state that are like Fundieville USA.
If I remember right, the opening credits to Moral Orel zoom in on a part of Missouri renamed "Statesota" and the town Moralton
Your memory is accurate. They had one show with the following (paraphrased) lines:
"Hey Orel, what did you get for number 5 on the biology test?"
"Jesus."
Deities help us if that's what it comes to here in the states.
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I always felt that this comic from Saturday morning breakfast cereal summarizes my feelings on this issue best.
Of course, I also eagerly await the judgement when this gets its ass handed to it in court. Its always fun listening to a judge verbally abuse the intelligent design proponents.
You're right, I do enjoy that.
As an aside, I think the technical term for them is "IDiots."
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Or, depending on context, "cdesign proponentsists".
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I always felt that this comic from Saturday morning breakfast cereal summarizes my feelings on this issue best.
Of course, I also eagerly await the judgement when this gets its ass handed to it in court. Its always fun listening to a judge verbally abuse the intelligent design proponents.
You're right, I do enjoy that.
The same way I enjoy watching boa constrictors crush rabbits to death and devour them.
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By the way, this particular bill doesn't just include public schools. This one includes colleges, too.
http://midwestdemocracyproject.org/blogs/entries/missouri-bill-would-mandate-teaching-intelligent-design/ (http://midwestdemocracyproject.org/blogs/entries/missouri-bill-would-mandate-teaching-intelligent-design/)