Author Topic: 4Chan's "it's okay to be white" campaign  (Read 1529 times)

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Offline Skybison

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Re: 4Chan's "it's okay to be white" campaign
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2017, 05:30:01 pm »
Are people still arguing for the merits of "ironic" racism? FFS!

I guess you're not a Dave Chappelle fan, then.

Well Dave Chappelle isn't, he quit the show because he thought it had gone too far and that white people were laughing at it for the wrong reasons. 

As far as the whole "Are they trolls or real Nazis":

You are walking in the wilderness and the grass starts moving.  If you think "Oh shit a Tiger!" and run up the nearest tree, only for it to turn out to be just the wind, what happens?  You feel dumb for a few minutes.

If you think "Meh just the wind" and then a tiger jumps out and attacks you when your back is turned, what happens?  Congratulations, You're dead.

If you can't tell the difference it's perfectly reasonable to err to the side of caution.

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: 4Chan's "it's okay to be white" campaign
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2017, 05:55:43 pm »
Are people still arguing for the merits of "ironic" racism? FFS!

I guess you're not a Dave Chappelle fan, then.

Well Dave Chappelle isn't, he quit the show because he thought it had gone too far and that white people were laughing at it for the wrong reasons. 

As far as the whole "Are they trolls or real Nazis":

You are walking in the wilderness and the grass starts moving.  If you think "Oh shit a Tiger!" and run up the nearest tree, only for it to turn out to be just the wind, what happens?  You feel dumb for a few minutes.

If you think "Meh just the wind" and then a tiger jumps out and attacks you when your back is turned, what happens?  Congratulations, You're dead.

If you can't tell the difference it's perfectly reasonable to err to the side of caution.

And what happens if we don't err on the side of caution in this scenario?
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Offline Svata

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Re: 4Chan's "it's okay to be white" campaign
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2017, 06:01:35 pm »
You normalize and tacitly encourage and accept racism and/or naizism, and give credibility to the un-creditable "just joking" defense, depending which you were talking about.
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Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: 4Chan's "it's okay to be white" campaign
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2017, 10:36:24 pm »
You normalize and tacitly encourage and accept racism and/or naizism, and give credibility to the un-creditable "just joking" defense, depending which you were talking about.

Normalizing racism? It's a little late to be concerned about that. Besides, I fail to see how a five word sentence is going to turn people into Nazis.

Before I continue, I'd like to ask something. Do you think "it's okay to be white" is an inherently racist statement, or is the campaign forever tainted by the racism associated with it? Or do you think something else? I'd like to figure out where this board stands so I don't make wrong assumptions about your opinions.
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Offline Skybison

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Re: 4Chan's "it's okay to be white" campaign
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2017, 01:04:58 am »
It's for that same reason "Police lives matter" is racist.  Nobody ever said it isn't okay to be white.  The purpose of the campaign is to distract from actual problems by setting up a false equivalency as an excuse to start arguments and get angry.

Also I've got a question for you as well: If someone is claiming to be a Nazi online, but could just be either real or a troll, do you think assuming real is a bad thing, and if so why?

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: 4Chan's "it's okay to be white" campaign
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2017, 01:30:58 am »
It's for that same reason "Police lives matter" is racist.  Nobody ever said it isn't okay to be white.  The purpose of the campaign is to distract from actual problems by setting up a false equivalency as an excuse to start arguments and get angry.

Also I've got a question for you as well: If someone is claiming to be a Nazi online, but could just be either real or a troll, do you think assuming real is a bad thing, and if so why?

Um, about that...

http://affinitymagazine.us/2017/08/01/do-white-men-really-deserve-to-vote/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/09/opinion/sunday/villifying-white-men.html

https://thoughtcatalog.com/emily-goldstein/2015/05/get-rid-of-white-people/

I have more if you'd like to see them. Salon alone has so many articles bashing white people, you'd think they were run by the Nation of Islam.

As for your question, it depends. If somebody calls themselves a Nazi on a website that links to their real identity, like Facebook or Twitter, then I'd say they probably are one. However, on an imageboard known for being a troll magnet, I prefer not to make assumptions. I don't think there's any real harm in assuming sincerity, but what is there to be gained from doing so?
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Offline Skybison

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Re: 4Chan's "it's okay to be white" campaign
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2017, 01:40:39 am »
Why shouldn't I assume the articles you posted weren't written by Trolls?  I couldn't read the NYtimes one because paywall, but the first one came across to me a potentially something meant as a joke, and the last one is so absurdly over the top that part of me is thinking it can't be serious.  I know there are total assholes on the far left parts of Tumblr and twitter (ie that steven universe fanart debacle) but "I want to be a victim of genocide"?  Really? 

But I'm sure you think I should assume they are serious.  That I should assume the Affinity writer genuinely wants to ban white men from voting and thought catalog girl really wants to be murdered.  So why?  Why should I assume they are serious but the guy claiming to be a nazi isn't?  What's the difference?

After all there have been examples of trolls posing as people on the far left too

http://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/15/endfathersday-trolls-being-trolls-or-black-propaganda-designed-to-tear-apart-feminism/
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 02:19:36 am by Skybison »

Offline niam2023

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Re: 4Chan's "it's okay to be white" campaign
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2017, 02:14:02 am »
I'm going to go with rationalwiki's article on the subject.
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Offline Eiki-mun

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Re: 4Chan's "it's okay to be white" campaign
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2017, 03:41:57 am »
I couldn't read the NYtimes one because paywall,

Allow me to help you with that, as an NYT subscriber.

https://pastebin.com/WAC3UAXM

The link is a transcript of the article, set to expire in one week and unlisted, to ensure that I don't hurt the newspaper's income in any way.
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Offline SCarpelan

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Re: 4Chan's "it's okay to be white" campaign
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2017, 04:48:42 am »
Allow me to help you with that, as an NYT subscriber.

https://pastebin.com/WAC3UAXM

The link is a transcript of the article, set to expire in one week and unlisted, to ensure that I don't hurt the newspaper's income in any way.

Oh my fucking non-existent god most of that article is so awful it hurts. People are supposed to have sympathy for Murdoch for him losing one of his mansions in the California fires or treat McCain's offensive politics with silk gloves? Hate of whiteness "as a system" is implied to be offensive and racist? (The concept and system of "whiteness" is the base for separating races and modern racism, it is not referring to the white people as a race.)

https://thoughtcatalog.com/emily-goldstein/2015/05/get-rid-of-white-people/

Really? I hope that this is one of those moments where you didn't read your own links. "Emily Goldstein" calling for white genocide? The troll is so obvious that one of the first Google results for the name is an anti-semitic blog calling them out for doing harm to anti-semitic conspiracy theories.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: 4Chan's "it's okay to be white" campaign
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2017, 04:51:22 am »
A lot of this seems like nutpicking, just because some of the most extreme outliers of people who talk about Black Pride, like the ones mentioned in the NYT piece, are raving loonies who call whites abominations doesn't discredit the idea of Black Pride per se-nor does it alter the fact that in the "anglosphere", whites are socially and economically on top and generally know who their ancestors were so don't have to fall back on skin color.

Way back in the day Run DMC used to rap about being proud to be black, if they thought white people were abominations what the hell were they doing performing with Aerosmith?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 04:53:02 am by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: 4Chan's "it's okay to be white" campaign
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2017, 10:26:12 am »
Allow me to help you with that, as an NYT subscriber.

https://pastebin.com/WAC3UAXM

The link is a transcript of the article, set to expire in one week and unlisted, to ensure that I don't hurt the newspaper's income in any way.

Oh my fucking non-existent god most of that article is so awful it hurts. People are supposed to have sympathy for Murdoch for him losing one of his mansions in the California fires or treat McCain's offensive politics with silk gloves? Hate of whiteness "as a system" is implied to be offensive and racist? (The concept and system of "whiteness" is the base for separating races and modern racism, it is not referring to the white people as a race.)

If it's not referring to white people as a race, then why use the term "whiteness?" I'm sure there are plenty of terms they could've used that aren't as loaded. Maybe I'm just being ignorant, but surely they could've called it something like "root racism." Could you imagine if they called it "Jewishness?"

And I love how you singled out the most controversial examples cited and wrote off the entire article because of them. Tell me, why didn't you mention the "Your DNA is an Abomination" article? It's only the example that starts the article.

https://thoughtcatalog.com/emily-goldstein/2015/05/get-rid-of-white-people/

Really? I hope that this is one of those moments where you didn't read your own links. "Emily Goldstein" calling for white genocide? The troll is so obvious that one of the first Google results for the name is an anti-semitic blog calling them out for doing harm to anti-semitic conspiracy theories.

I was hoping somebody would catch that. Thank you for pointing out that "assume they're being serious" isn't always the best course of action.

A lot of this seems like nutpicking, just because some of the most extreme outliers of people who talk about Black Pride, like the ones mentioned in the NYT piece, are raving loonies who call whites abominations doesn't discredit the idea of Black Pride per se-nor does it alter the fact that in the "anglosphere", whites are socially and economically on top and generally know who their ancestors were so don't have to fall back on skin color.

Way back in the day Run DMC used to rap about being proud to be black, if they thought white people were abominations what the hell were they doing performing with Aerosmith?

Who said anything about black pride? I'm talking about anti-white racism. And yes, it's generally white people who make up the social and economic elite in the Anglosphere, but that doesn't mean we should assume all white people have it easy. Rural people are more likely to be white, and the current economic problems hit them especially hard.

And where were your complaints about nutpicking when Askold posted the racist responses to the post that began the campaign?

But I'm sure you think I should assume they are serious.  That I should assume the Affinity writer genuinely wants to ban white men from voting and thought catalog girl really wants to be murdered.  So why?  Why should I assume they are serious but the guy claiming to be a nazi isn't?  What's the difference?

Who said anything about assuming the self-proclaimed white supremacist is a troll? I merely said that on a website where no accounts exist and trolls make up a lot of the userbase, there's always the possibility that they're just being ironic. And yes, it is possible that the Affinity article was intended as satire. But hey, I'm not the one who said we should assume every rustle in the grass is a tiger, just to be on the safe side.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 10:47:52 am by Lana Reverse »
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Offline Skybison

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Re: 4Chan's "it's okay to be white" campaign
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2017, 11:16:36 am »
You sited these articles as examples in response to the claim that "Nobody says it's not okay to be white".  If you don't think they should be assumed to be dead serious, then my original point still stands. 

If you have reason to believe the rustle in the grass is just the wind, then it's fine to assume so.  It's if you can't tell the difference, and there are plenty of people on 4chan who are in fact actual Nazis.  And the "Ironic" racism creates an environment that lets them flourish. 

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: 4Chan's "it's okay to be white" campaign
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2017, 12:04:35 pm »
You sited these articles as examples in response to the claim that "Nobody says it's not okay to be white".  If you don't think they should be assumed to be dead serious, then my original point still stands.

If you have reason to believe the rustle in the grass is just the wind, then it's fine to assume so.  It's if you can't tell the difference, and there are plenty of people on 4chan who are in fact actual Nazis.  And the "Ironic" racism creates an environment that lets them flourish.

>We should assume these imageboard posts are 100% sincere
>Let's not jump to conclusions about these articles, they might be satirical


Pick one.

And if you're concerned about racism flourishing, then I'd say some posts on 4chan should be the least of your worries. Tell me, do you agree with the notion that Islamophobia pushes Muslims into the arms of the jihadis?

Oh, and if you think ironic racism on /pol/ helps real Nazis, then wouldn't the same be true regarding anti-white racists if these articles are satirical? Don't blame me, I'm only playing by your own rules.
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Offline SCarpelan

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Re: 4Chan's "it's okay to be white" campaign
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2017, 01:02:31 pm »
If it's not referring to white people as a race, then why use the term "whiteness?" I'm sure there are plenty of terms they could've used that aren't as loaded. Maybe I'm just being ignorant, but surely they could've called it something like "root racism." Could you imagine if they called it "Jewishness?"

Because the concept of whiteness is in the center of the system that created the modern social concept of race and the racial discrimination? Equating the terms "whiteness" and "Jewishness" makes it clear you are too ignorant or stupid to understand the nuances of historical context when it comes to meanings behind words and the messages they convey.

Quote
And I love how you singled out the most controversial examples cited and wrote off the entire article because of them. Tell me, why didn't you mention the "Your DNA is an Abomination" article? It's only the example that starts the article.

Because even the linked article that criticizes it from a tactical point of view admits that it was a deliberate provocation and the minority students used it to call attention to the racial slurs they encounter all the time. I'm sure you are furious that white people aren't able to use this kind of provocation and think it's racist against us. Bo-fucking-hoo.

P.S. If it was someone else I might actually bother to have a proper discussion or debate about the nuances involved here. The only reason I made these posts is that I've recently had a couple of discussions about these issues and even this superficial commentary allowed me to get rid of some things that stuck in my mind to bother me.