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Community => Religion and Philosophy => Topic started by: Bob J. on July 04, 2017, 03:15:45 pm

Title: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on July 04, 2017, 03:15:45 pm
Welcome Sharon,

You recently asked me a question. If I answered that question on that website we both risk being deleted for being off topic. And possibly outright banned.

If you get an account and sign-in here, I can try to answer that question.

Please return to the message containing the link that got you here and give me a “thumbs up”. That will allow me to delete that link. We will not have complete privacy, however, many fewer people will follow.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: ironbite on July 04, 2017, 05:07:27 pm
What in the flying fuck?
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Jocasta on July 04, 2017, 05:50:16 pm
What in the flying fuck?

He's trying to continue a conversation with someone on Christian News Network, which he can't do there because of the way the bastards ban people.  So he's bringing it here.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: ironbite on July 04, 2017, 06:35:08 pm
Ahh I see.

Ironbite-what in the flying fuck?
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Søren on July 05, 2017, 05:58:40 am
I nearly deleted this thinking it was spam...
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Jocasta on July 05, 2017, 10:36:57 am

FSTST is "home" for many of us who battle fundies on their turf.  It's our safe space.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on July 05, 2017, 11:42:49 am
Before I answer your question, I would like to make some remarks about banning and removing posts on Christian News Network.

Messages are removed and people banned at the other site for various reasons. In my view the number one reason is criticizing the mods.. Even that final paragraph of yours to FoJC may be enough to remove the post. Grace just had several messages remove for complaining about the mods.

Second the site is very anti-Catholic. Any comments that support the Catholic Church gets you extra attention. I think Colin was banned for his pro-Catholic views.

Third, the other website is very much aligned with Amos and the anti-gay folks. My personal fear is that devote evangelical Christians, such as yourself, may well be seen as heretics by the mods.

Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on July 05, 2017, 11:43:35 am
you asked:
“My husband gave me a link today: Archaeologists Just Discovered Rare Artifact That Will Leave Jesus Doubters Feeling Dumb
The article is on the AWM site, but I don't know how reputable the site is,
Do you know if AWM is a reasonable source?”

The website appears to work very much like many websites, that is, they find an article on a different sites and repost the article. AWM appears to be a political conservative, Christian-oriented news source. This is neither good nor bad.

The word “dumb” in the title was a red flag for me. Degrading any group in the title of your article tells me the article is not trying to be objective, but rather is playing to a core audience.

Next I did a google search of the title. This article has been posted at seven different web news sites over the last two months.

Reading the article provides no evidence for the new discovery or why it should make Jesus doubters feel dumb, but instead directs the reader to buy Robert Hutchinson’s book.

Amazon tells me that his book has been out for just about a year. The book has only gotten 47 reviews mostly positive. Yet the “Jesus Doubters” are still around, so the proof is not that compelling. Since the book has been out for a year, it had to have been written before that time. Any great discoveries would be in “Biblical Archeology” and other periodicals for some time.

All this information leads me to conclude that the author has compiled some recent archeological discoveries into a book that will appeal to Christians as a way to justify their faith.

Edited for typos
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Jocasta on July 05, 2017, 12:56:56 pm
Has Sharon made it over here, Bob?
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on July 05, 2017, 12:57:58 pm
Sharon,said
"I am not getting my initial email. I can't find a place to ask about it either. Any ideas?"

I had the same problem. After requesting a new email a couple of time. This site just started letting me login. I'll check with others to see if they have more info.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on July 05, 2017, 12:59:49 pm
Has Sharon made it over here, Bob?

No. She is trying to get an account but has not gotten the email response. I had the same problem when I opened my account.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on July 05, 2017, 01:34:05 pm
Sharon said,
"I am not getting my initial email. I can't find a place to ask about it either. Any ideas?"

You might try sending an email to admin@fstdt.org


Update: If you are seeing these messages, give me a thumbs up anywhere.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on July 07, 2017, 10:51:40 pm
Hi Bob, I finally made it! Woohoo! Praise the Lord!
Thank you for looking into that site. You are right, and I should have realized that it would not have called anyone 'dumb' and it was old archeological information.
Amin: Shy, Thank you for all the help you have devoted so much time to this too. God bless!

I'm looking forward to looking around this board. Sounds much better than the other one.
I decided that I needed to rest for a while in my battle with Amos. I've learned a lot about Fundies since I started and it is not a surprise this site exists!

Bob I appreciate your help to understand what was going on on the other site. I guess I'm naive about this kind of thing, because I have always put Christians and "good people" together in my mind, and I have learned that it is not the case in this day and age. Fortunately I can find more of the good people, than of the bad. Praise God!

Blessings@
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Ambulance Chaser on July 08, 2017, 12:17:23 am
Welcome Sharon! Yes, you'll be able to breathe a little better here. No one will delete your comments because they fail to toe the party line, or because they would offend Victorian clergy's sense of propriety!
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on July 08, 2017, 01:26:26 am
I finally made it! Woohoo! Praise the Lord!


A big HELLO and welcome -
Don’t give up your fight over there. This place, like everywhere else, has some strange folks, but it most certainly has better admins and more open conversations.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on July 08, 2017, 04:05:24 am
Fortunately I can find more of the good people, than of the bad. Praise God!

My belief is that there are a lot more good people than bad people. These good people come from every walk of life, every faith, every nation. Without all this goodwill, society could not function.

I often mention books, currently I am only about halfway through Steven Pinker’s, The Better Angles of Our Nature.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on July 08, 2017, 09:46:28 am
Thank you A.C. You are a welcome sight for me. I saw Parodyx is here too. I know I'll like this place for sure!

Bob, Thank you again for telling me about this place. Now I have a place to vent when I stop beating my head against a brick wall names Amos! :o lol

I won't give up on the CNN site, but I don't know how much more I can do when there are a lot of new posters lol . And YEAH! no more Grace! lol!  ;D

This site is like a breath of fresh air for me. Looking forward to reading and posting here.
God bless!
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Jocasta on July 08, 2017, 11:54:07 am
Hello Sharon, I am the one who used the name Parodyx.  I have had to change my name many times over at Christian News Network because they have banned me so many times.  They never seem to learn that they can't keep me away.  I'm a little hesitant to list all the names I have used because some of the trolls over there might come over here to read this and gloat over how many times they were right.  I don't really hide the fact, but I do sometimes present different personas, sometimes male, sometimes female, sometimes Christian, sometimes atheist, sometimes questioning.  In real life I would call myself agnostic, although I am just fine with MOST Christians...it's the far-right ultra hateful ones over at Christian News Network and on the "Faith and Religion" channel on Disqus that I have made it my mission in life to fight.

Also despite the name "Jocasta" I am a man...it used to have a profane last name which I recently removed because it always made me a little uncomfortable, but the name "Jocasta xxxxxx" came from a name I found in my spam folder in my email once that made me laugh.  But the profanity is a little off-putting to some people so I have edited it out.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: KingOfRhye on July 09, 2017, 07:19:48 am
Nice to see you here, Sharon!  Yeah, "brick wall named Amos" sounds about right.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: RavynousHunter on July 09, 2017, 09:14:51 am
Only brick?  You sure it ain't something more dense?  Maybe lead?
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on July 11, 2017, 03:47:51 pm
Thanks very much for all the Wecomes! I feel like I just came home.
I won't give up on CNN but it isn't as much fun without people to enjoy watching the back and forth and down voting the fundies. I'll keep looking until I find one, or I take Amos on again.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: CrowFood on July 12, 2017, 01:57:09 am
Ooooh, more cross networking! Always fun. I'm MCrow on the other site. We had a nice debate which I appreciated because your answers were of a far more respectful tone even when we clearly disagreed on the issue.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on July 13, 2017, 09:15:11 pm
Ooooh, more cross networking! Always fun. I'm MCrow on the other site. We had a nice debate which I appreciated because your answers were of a far more respectful tone even when we clearly disagreed on the issue.
Thank you. I must have been a receiver of your own respect. I always prefer to end with a good friend at the end. :D
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on July 24, 2017, 04:46:34 pm
Cheers —

Notes from a different universe….
Quote
“I’ve not been impolite with you. I've simply declared to what appears to be hypocrisy on your part and suspect on the part of your church as well. You seem to think that to point out one's sins (whether as it pertains to sodomites or yourself)”

Well, to create the term sodomite and then continually use it to describe people is impolite [full stop]

I found his website a couple of days ago, when following your earlier exchange and Ted got his remarks reposted over here. His website is at

http://www.bibleversusconstitution.org

I spent a few minute at the site. Be prepared for some serious relaxation exercises after viewing. - deep breathing, maybe a quite walk in a garden. I had to play with my cat, those little nips and scratches soon become your only focus.

Anyway, I was going to send this off but never did …
“Well Ambulance Chaser, it looks like you may have a new challenge - Ted R. Weiland author of “Bible Law vs. The United States Constitution.” I’d love to see an objective review of his book, HOWEVER, this by no means a request for ANYONE to read it.”

---
And since I always recommend reading, this time I’ll mention George Lakoff. In particular, his short book Don’t Think of an Elephant. I liked the first edition better than the second edition. The first edition was a rambling collection of many articles he had written, it contained much repetition. The second edition cleaned that up a lot and is probably a better read. However, my enjoyment of the first edition is like reading old letters, like the Federalist Papers, you get to see repeating concerns and different wording as an idea develops.

anyway check out
https://georgelakoff.com
under the heading “Writings” he has may articles, here is one of the articles (he has also written extensively on “family values”)
http://www.alternet.org/story/17574/inside_the_frame

P.S. Oh, and after you read about framing you will know just how loaded Ted’s use of the word “hypocrisy” is.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on July 24, 2017, 09:01:12 pm
Hi Bob
I think having my first battle with Amos strengthened me for anyone that wants to tangle right now anyways.  ;D
I enjoyed Ted's discussion kind of, I don't know why I bothered answering at the end but it was fun anyway.
I was wondering Bob, or whomever wants to, could you see whether they blocked me after what I told them I discovered?
I have had nothing for 12hrs which was his last post that I answered and it's not there in my notifications anymore either.
If nothing else, they deleted - without anything said - my reply to Ted.
TBH I was ticked with him right off although I don't know why exactly.  :P
Bob, did you see my post? OMG I was so pumped about the answer I gave him, I'm hoping someone saw it.
I think I saved it in Word, so if I did, I'll post it here so people can tell me if I have found something useful in the scriptures for gays.  ;)
Let me know if I have been banned, please. reply to something or up-vote me. and unless it gets through to my notifications it shows that I am banned, right?
Let me know here :o what you thought of my reply if you saw it please.
God blessings Bob! Always! ::)
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on July 24, 2017, 09:34:15 pm
I was wondering Bob, or whomever wants to, could you see whether they blocked me after what I told them I discovered?
God blessings Bob! Always! ::)

You are not banned. I can see lots of messages from you. When a person is banned all those messages (well at least for about a month back) become "Guest" with the "This comment deleted." Your comments are still there. You may have had some comments "Removed" I have noticed this happens to Ambulance from time to time, just by luck, I will see his post then hours later it is silently gone, I have had a couple of my messages "Removed" also. You can check when that happens, click on your new little panda bear in the upper right hand corner, you will see your disqus profile page. Any removed comments will have a red "removed" tag to the right of the message.


Oh, and Ted seems to be a hit and run poster. A half dozen disagreements with somebody and then he is gone for months.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on July 24, 2017, 11:39:29 pm
TBH I was ticked with him right off although I don't know why exactly.  :P
From rereading Ted’s first comment, I think I can see that ticked you off. It would have gotten any of us ticked and you or Ambulance Chaser would most likely take the bait.

But first his second response to you
Quote
Mamabearly, please point out what YOU interpreted as hateful. If citing Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 set you off on your judgmental tirade,

It is a simple matter to find a Biblical quote to tick off anybody. And you didn’t object to the Old Testament Leviticus, you pointed him to a loving Jesus. And while you may be long winded, I think he gets the title of tirade. I have previous pointed to his later use of calling you the loaded word “hypocrite”

But back to his original, first comment, Five paragraphs long. The first paragraph claims “this” would never happen if we stayed with the British colonial law. Yet homosexuality was illegal under American constitution for well over 200 years only in the last 20 years has things changed. And it has changed in the once heavily Christian Europe too. So it is a pretty grandiose claim to make.

Paragraph two, “man-made laws” He is claim indirectly that if we had a theocracy we would avoid these problems and by paragraph three “sodomites and lesbians” would be back in the closet and have no rights (in scare quotes no less).

The last two paragraphs is proselytizing. Not for a loving Jesus. not for compassion, not for understanding, but for his book. Take his test see how much you don’t know!

His whole first comment, indeed all of his comments are filled with what my father would call, “fighting words” Words chosen to be combative.

I also find that in this forum the uses of Yahweh instead of a simple God is at least strange. If this where a discussion of the ancient texts it would be proper and relevant, but here it always seems to be a one-upmanship ploy.

Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on July 25, 2017, 03:23:02 pm

Thank you Bob for the post about "Ted."
I didn't bother checking the post you told me about on his site. I really do not think I'd do anything about it, so why take a chance on needing the breathing exercises, right? ::)
I'm checking some scriptures to see if I'm right about what they say with a few people I know who know the bible better than myself.  ;D

If I am right and there is no scriptures that can be used to change what I found, I have the reason why no religion that follows Jesus should ever condemn gays, as God has the only authority to punish anyone and Jesus told us that people who sin, and do not believe will eventually be punished, but not until after death. I don't think they realize what they do when they make a big deal about their sin either.
I am really praying that the Lord is directing me to find what I need so it 'has' to be 'right', so I am expecting if it is wrong, I'll be directed to that too.

Another point that is always brought up is about their "SIN"; NO other persons are forced to tell the Whole World their sin.
 
When people join churches, are they required to speak out to the whole church (a lot smaller than the whole world) about each of the sins they are doing? No we are not.

No one ever asks about another persons sins. We are just to teach them how to overcome them, and repent, and the rest (not to make the rest by any means minor, this is not about them right now). So why do some Christians think it is alright to use that forced confession of sin out of necessity, to get the right to 'rebuke' them about their sin, when they themselves were not treated like that about their own sins.

'The' sin is a sin, like any of us can make. God was no respecter of persons, so whether one man sinned one way and another man sinned another way, Neither person would be considered 'higher' or "worth more" than another person.  'The' sin was made a big deal a couple of times, but I have found where Jesus basically took that sin, and told us to cover it by the command to have love for one another.

So that is where I am right now. Ironically, Ted was the one that lead me to the scriptures in something he said.

If the style was not different, I'd think he was Amos lol.  :o
So, does that mean a fundie = a fundie with no significant differences? :-X = :-X

God Bless!






Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on July 26, 2017, 01:22:19 am
I have found where Jesus basically took that sin, and told us to cover it by the command to have love for one another.

Personally, I think that a fundie's reaction to other people's sin has nothing to do with Christianity. I think that a large part of the United States is extremely xenophobic. We have the lowest percent of our population having passports. Europe is many countries, many languages. Many different cultures all mixed in a small area. India has so many different dialects that everyone has to learn some English.

Scripture has been used to justify slavery, anti-women’s suffrage, anti-gay, anti-Semitic, anti-environmental protection, the list goes on. Many people do not like change and it is comforting for them to find scripture to justify their position. So it is not scripture that drives their opinion, rather their opinion that finds a scripture that reinforces their belief.

Quote
So, does that mean a fundie = a fundie with no significant differences?  = 

If you will remember about two months ago I related about my niece driving past the local Hindu temple, she would scream that they worshipped false idols. Well, her mother, my sister-in-law, would find a new Evangelical church, it would last about two months before the elders would say something she disagreed with. Oh the heresies, time to find a new church. This went on for years, finally she moved back home with her parents, and lo the church where she grew up was still almost the right Christian church. So I’ve come to the opposite conclusion, every fundie has the CORRECT view of scripture and everyone else is satan, a hypocrite, an anti-Christ, etc. And that was why my sister-in-law could always find a new church, which on the surface was perfect and only after a delving into scripture did it become the new heretics. And even the smallest differences are significant to some people. And nationally there are more different sects of Evangelical Christian.


On and only three days ago I said I avoid quoting scripture and today FoJC proved me wrong, he got a half dozen.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: pyro on July 26, 2017, 02:37:50 pm
Honestly, I think it's simpler than that.

Reactionaries hate change. That's basically the definition of reactionary.

Reactionary Christians, therefor, hate any doctrine other than the one they grew up with as children. That is, they hate anything that can be perceived as changes to their religion.

Your sister finds the church she grew up in the most tolerable of all of them because the church she grew up in is the closest thing that exists to the church she grew up in.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: CrowFood on July 26, 2017, 10:15:22 pm
I have a friend who studied theology. He had an interesting take on Christian fundamentalism. In his mind, the purpose of fundamentalism is to use scripture justify and propagate one's own beliefs, effectively making themselves their own God. My experience with other religions is limited, but at least in Christianity, fundamentalism I've seen is about personal status rather than practicing a faith. It's why fundies take it so personally when you cite things running contrary: you're not insulting their beliefs, you're insulting them and taking away their power. And they do want power. It's why they are such petty tyrants.

In response to Sharon, condemnation of sin is in the hands of God alone according to the Bible, but...think about what I just said about fundamentalism. They see condemning others as justified because they've set themselves up as God.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on July 27, 2017, 12:14:16 am
Thanks Crowfood That was very interesting. I've been learning a lot about Fundies here as everyone is so kind to me. I have learned more to be able to use the tools as the way to ummmm  ::) 'sink their battleships' in a quicker manner.
So I've been working on a couple of ways to put the different ways Fundies try to insist they are right, so I can cut and paste the best match instead of going to so much trouble for scriptures etc. I'm using some of my battle with Amos as a guide.
Any information that can be of use, please don't hesitate to let me know.  ;)
I'm also preparing some scriptures and rebukes ahead of time about the gays. ;D
God bless Crowfood! and thanks again for the perception lesson of the ego of a Fundie.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on July 29, 2017, 11:39:03 pm
I had so much fun today posting a reply to Sandralee and Peanut Butter! I found 2 really neat things to put them off their pedestal.
The first is a game called WWJD. For these 2 I put them like this:
Let’s play WWJD about this. What do you think Jesus would do in each case?
1. Would Jesus tell anyone to starve because of their sin?
2. Would he not allow anyone to have an apartment or roof over their heads, food
and water? Because of their sin?
3. Would Jesus tell anyone that they have no right to eat at a restaurant. Because
of their sin?
4. Would Jesus tell anyone to punish sinners here while we are here on Earth, instead
of leaving ALL PUNISHMENT to Jesus. Because of their sin?

Would Jesus tell us that us that the 2nd  of the last commandments [of which there is only 2;] is one of the 2 that could be ignored because we are supposed to hate someone’s sin - which is none of anyone’s business except Jesus' in the first place?
It’s up to Jesus to hear confessions of sins and repentance, not ours. It is Jesus that will forgive us our sins, not you or the others that believe as you do.
And not only that, Sandralee, I don’t live the way I live, following Jesus our Lord -
for you, - I live this way for Jesus. ONLY.  ;D
So if you think I am wrong, go talk to him again. Read the scriptures and prove that there was any harshness when Jesus spoke to anyone. If there had been it would have been pointed out. Please don’t point out the Scribes and the Pharisee or the church of the money lenders.
I should warn you that you won’t find it.  :)

Then later in my lovely long ramble, lol, I said this:
So tell me what kind of things you say when you encounter any gays, Sandralee.
Do you rebuke them and tell them they are damned to Hell, Sandralee?
What do you say to the gays on a platform when you want to tell them their sins, and rebuke them right there in the public’s face?
Oh yeah, and would you want anyone to do that to you, anything that you would do to them?
Put yourself in their place as a sinner, not necessarily gay, but a sinner as we are, every one of us.

Now take away your home/apartment….

Now take away your food, water, and anything you use in your daily life….

Take away your ability to go into any store you want to buy clothes in.

Take away your ability to choose which restaurant you are able to eat in….

And now put into place, the people who will humiliate, and demean you with words,
so everyone in the whole world thinks you are worthless and should not have any
rights until you repent and accept the hope of Salvation.

How does that fit for you?

As a sinner, this is what you are saying is the right way to treat a sinner. Homosexuality is no bigger a sin as any other sin. God is no respecter of persons. One will not get more or less than the other sinner that does not repent. He does not care who you are if you are determined to sin without repentance. Everyone will have the same punishment, for sins Period. It’s in the scriptures.

I am feeling good mostly because I stopped myself from saying anything with bad intention, so I kept my Christians' light in tact. ;D
I don't think I thought about the last prod for understanding - the treat people the way you want to be treated, came right out of no where. lol. I am however, going to give God the glory for it. He has been helping me with my posts so I can't deny him the glory!

So, how do you guys like these for Fundies? They are going to be hard pressed to talk their way out of both of these, I think. I am praying!
I think I'm getting closer to the solution with these ideas, guys. Of course, Fundies won't approve, but maybe some of the Christians that aren't Fundies will rethink what they do to gays.   
I'm feeling good tonight and all ready for church tomorrow! Good night all, and Good morning all! God bless!

Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on July 31, 2017, 03:17:26 am

So, how do you guys like these for Fundies? They are going to be hard pressed to talk their way out of both of these, I think.


Great writing. Your two longish posts really did a good job of laying out a different, Jesus oriented world view.

Even better, I liked your short, clear rebuttals to Jason Todd and “Mr goody…”  I think you devastated their position and clearly challenged them to defend their hateful point of view. Your support of MCow was masterful in how you used his remarks to reinforce and expand on Jesus’ gospel.

The real proof will come from them, if and when they try to answer. You will learn from the responses to those posts and your next salvo will be even better.

High Fives to you.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on August 04, 2017, 08:37:25 pm
Trigger Warning: Contains language considered offensive even in the day Mark Twain wrote. This book constantly ranks near the top in banned books (but then so does the Bible).

Quote
“From: Mark Twain. “The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.”

So I was full of trouble, full as I could be; and didn't know what to do. At last I had an idea; and I says, I'll go and write the letter—and then see if I can pray. Why, it was astonishing, the way I felt as light as a feather right straight off, and my troubles all gone. So I got a piece of paper and a pencil, all glad and excited, and set down and wrote:

Miss Watson, your runaway nigger Jim is down here two mile below Pikesville, and Mr. Phelps has got him and he will give him up for the reward if you send.   HUCK FINN.

I felt good and all washed clean of sin for the first time I had ever felt so in my life, and I knowed I could pray now. But I didn't do it straight off, but laid the paper down and set there thinking—thinking how good it was all this happened so, and how near I come to being lost and going to hell. And went on thinking. And got to thinking over our trip down the river; and I see Jim before me all the time: in the day and in the night-time, sometimes moonlight, sometimes storms, and we a-floating along, talking and singing and laughing. But somehow I couldn't seem to strike no places to harden me against him, but only the other kind. I'd see him standing my watch on top of his'n, 'stead of calling me, so I could go on sleeping; and see him how glad he was when I come back out of the fog; and when I come to him again in the swamp, up there where the feud was; and such-like times; and would always call me honey, and pet me, and do everything he could think of for me, and how good he always was; and at last I struck the time I saved him by telling the men we had smallpox aboard, and he was so grateful, and said I was the best friend old Jim ever had in the world, and the only one he's got now; and then I happened to look around and see that paper.

“It was a close place. I took it up, and held it in my hand. I was a-trembling, because I'd got to decide, forever, betwixt two things, and I knowed it. I studied a minute, sort of holding my breath, and then says to myself:

"All right, then, I'll go to hell"—and tore it up. ”


Sharon, you speak often of Salvation. Every church, every Christian has differing views of what Salvation will be. What exactly will happen to people both saved and unsaved after you die, where and for how long.

And like with Mark Twain and his character Huck Finn, are there family, friendships, causes, or ideals for which, you will forfeit Salvation? Not by ignorance or lack of will power, but instead with full knowing - is there anything in this world more important than your own, personal, selfish Salvation? And it is selfish, you are fighting for your Salvation. You can not share it. You can not give it to someone else. Your Salvation is for you alone. You may help others to try and achieve salvation, but in the end, you are on a sinking raft, will you give up your life-jacket for something or someone else?


Reflections on what this Salvation means (common claims that I have heard)…
We will have no memories of family and friends who rejected Jesus. (If so, then how can I claim to be me with no memory of the important aspects of this life?)

Heaven is a place where I will be in eternal bliss, enjoy my days with the other elect, possibly Fred Phelps and Amos, and all the other saved souls. (Or a Heaven made up of just people like me, no need for contemplation. Views that never conflict or change. No tasks that need doing. And I suppose a mind so numb that I wouldn’t notice.)

We will be sipping our cool drinks while watching friends and family burn in the Lake of Fire. (Does not sound like a place I want to spend ANY time.)

Hitchens has liked Heaven to North Korea - a place where you spend eternity telling God and Jesus how great they are.(Im not sure that is right for me.)


So, Sharon, what exactly and in detail is Salvation for you? What is worth so much that you would abandon all that you are, your mind, your thoughts, Ambulance Chaser, King of Rhye, Jocasta, CrowFood, your pets, your favorite uncle and many others?



The first NobleTruth is, All life is suffering. Maybe it is all of existence is suffering. I will not  live my life in fear of eternal pain. And I will judge may friends during this life. I choice those people, who bring comfort to those least amoung us.

Free will is about choice, freely made. Huckleberry Finn knew what he was doing and tore up the letter.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on August 04, 2017, 11:55:02 pm
Ok Crowfood,
I'm going to give them to you here since it does not look like I can attach them to a PM.

First one is a crow with full body  for one avatar. And the other is the head of a crow with food in it's mouth. Guess what I thought username that would be a great avatar for?

I am honoured that you will accept my photographs as your avatar.  ;D

Ironically, I believe this is a crow, but it is very confusing because it is brown and I think it has brown eyes. I'm asking friends if anyone can identify it but I think it is a crow. SMH it fits a crow better than any other bird.
Enjoy and let me know if you need any changes, or even another picture, of a crow or anything I have to offer.  I have photographs that are of anything that caught my eye wherever I walked with my dog. I have bees, wasps, dragon flies (did you know they have faces like we do?) snails, and squirrels Cardinals Blue Jays, and sparrows .. whole families of the last two birds.
Blue Jay babies look like pterodactyls when they are screaming to be fed. lol
I'm willing to make anything I have into an avatar if it's possible.
 
Enjoy and God bless!
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on August 06, 2017, 11:11:58 am
Trigger Warning: Contains language considered offensive even in the day Mark Twain wrote. This book constantly ranks near the top in banned books (but then so does the Bible).

Quote
“From: Mark Twain. “The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.”

So I was full of trouble, full as I could be; and didn't know what to do. At last I had an idea; and I says, I'll go and write the letter—and then see if I can pray. Why, it was astonishing, the way I felt as light as a feather right straight off, and my troubles all gone. So I got a piece of paper and a pencil, all glad and excited, and set down and wrote:

Miss Watson, your runaway nigger Jim is down here two mile below Pikesville, and Mr. Phelps has got him and he will give him up for the reward if you send.   HUCK FINN.

I felt good and all washed clean of sin for the first time I had ever felt so in my life, and I knowed I could pray now. But I didn't do it straight off, but laid the paper down and set there thinking—thinking how good it was all this happened so, and how near I come to being lost and going to hell. And went on thinking. And got to thinking over our trip down the river; and I see Jim before me all the time: in the day and in the night-time, sometimes moonlight, sometimes storms, and we a-floating along, talking and singing and laughing. But somehow I couldn't seem to strike no places to harden me against him, but only the other kind. I'd see him standing my watch on top of his'n, 'stead of calling me, so I could go on sleeping; and see him how glad he was when I come back out of the fog; and when I come to him again in the swamp, up there where the feud was; and such-like times; and would always call me honey, and pet me, and do everything he could think of for me, and how good he always was; and at last I struck the time I saved him by telling the men we had smallpox aboard, and he was so grateful, and said I was the best friend old Jim ever had in the world, and the only one he's got now; and then I happened to look around and see that paper.

“It was a close place. I took it up, and held it in my hand. I was a-trembling, because I'd got to decide, forever, betwixt two things, and I knowed it. I studied a minute, sort of holding my breath, and then says to myself:

"All right, then, I'll go to hell"—and tore it up. ”


I'm afraid I don't remember much about this book because it was read when I was quite young. The story tells of a child, who found the lord, and had to choose a friend, over a law, and over what his conscience told him about selling out on a friend.
God would not see that as something a Christian should do, without praying for his direction. Sometimes, it is better for you to stay out of things, or even better if you help, rather than hinder. I guess I believe that Jesus will look at a situation before he condemns someone's sin, because he can see our hearts. What the boy did took love and Jesus wants us to love. I honestly cannot say that I could be sure of how Jesus would look at it, because of the element of love, and the boy did not consider repenting for the sin of not tattling on his friend, which is how you must deal with sin.
The fact that there is love in his decision covers the sin that he committed, and justifies his actions, I believe is what is said, that there are some sins, covered by love, where Jesus will justify the people for some things.

I'm still working on the rest of the post, but I will post it when I am happy with it.
God bless!


Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on August 06, 2017, 12:24:06 pm
Sharon said:
Quote
I believe that if I know more people's way of looking and believing because of that view, I can get better understanding of the scriptures myself.

To be a Christian…

The Nicene Creed

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God, begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.

Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.


That is all that is required. Everything else is optional. No brownie points for proselytizing, no requirement to repent, stop, or even acknowledge sins - the unconditional forgiveness of sins is by Jesus. He will judge us - we will be known by our fruits.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on August 06, 2017, 12:25:28 pm
Quote
I believe that if I know more people's way of looking and believing because of that view, I can get better understanding of the scriptures myself.

Quote
I don't use other bibles but the KJV, so I always translate them

I am taking your first quote seriously, here is how I view scripture.
What follows are my views of the Bible. Do not despair as you read the first few paragraphs, for in the end it is the Good News as promised.


What we read today, in the King James Version or any other version of the Bible simply can not be the inerrant Word of God.  There are several lines of reasoning to justify this statement. And in fact the idea of Biblical inerrancy is only about 200 years old.

First, let us assume that indeed God spoke directly to Moses and the Gospel writers. Jesus spoke Aramaic, the oldest fragments of the Gospels are in Greek So the best and possibly most authentic text is already a translation and interpretation of Jesus’ ministry. The Gospels we have are the combination of several different texts. with in some cases major differences. These, our oldest copies date to 4th century - single copies, already hand copied for over 300 years.

To find that the most Holy of books was not cherished and preserved by early Christians for the first few centuries does not speak well to the historical importance of our current gospels. Next the Roman Catholic Church picked what books now comprise our Bible leaving out that which did not support the Church of Rome. The seven Ecumenical Councils that established the orthodox Christianity that we have today where probably the most political meetings ever held. This is why today we “understand’ the Bible to include the divinity of Jesus and the Trinity, interpretations introduced by the winning church.

One thousand three hundred years later, in 1604, King James gave translators instructions to ensure that the new version reflected the episcopal structure of the Church of England. While the King James version did use Greek texts it also relied heavily on the Vulgate, a Latin translation of the Bible. So we have spoken Aramaic to Greek to Latin to English. Paul of course wrote in Greek so those translations are somewhat easier. The KJV Old Testament also includes Hebrew and Koine Greek (Septuagint) texts. The King James Bible was completed in 1611, nine years later the Pilgrims sailed to America to separate from this Church of England.

——
Second, those that wrote the Bible did not have the vocabulary to understand many modern concepts. Penicillin grows on bread. It has been with us since before Moses. Indeed it would have been part of the Creator’s work. Yet in the five books that Moses wrote, telling us how to sacrifice goat, sheep, and dove to cure the ills of man, never once is the production and use of penicillin mentioned. Today, when I visit the pharmacy there are no animal cages. The pharmacist no longer speaks of balancing the four Humors. So even tho God has inspired and directed the scripture and even if those first writers copied the Word perfectly, it would not have made it past the scribes. All that hand copying for thousands of years before the printing press was invented would have transformed the Word into something those earlier readers would understand. So it is with many concepts, sins and demons replaced the many ancient gods as the driving forces behinds man’s behavior.


——-
Third, all of the gospels are anonymous only later were the Apostle’s names added as authors to the texts. And the historians point to the gospels being written after the fall of the Jerusalem Temple in 70 AD, thirty years after the death of Jesus. I do not trust my own memory of thirty years ago. So when the writers of the gospels chose words can I be sure of the exact word choice? Indeed reading different gospels shows me that even then the gospel’s authors did not agree on many of the details.


So the text we read today is the composite text of thousands of copying and translating across vastly different times and languages. To assume all those people were inspired with accuracy from God would lead to the conclusion that both yours and Amos’ are correct.

Yes, there is an entire field of Christian Apologetics. It can explain by adding much detail not found in scripture how the death of Judas occurred. But a far simpler answer is that men wrote these accounts to make a point, to provide a narrative for how to live in society.

And now the Good News. The laws of the Old Testament keep a fragile warworn society together for centuries. The New Testament is a subset of those laws and is still a good model for living 2000 years later. The New Testament is one of the greatest wisdoms books  of all time, that simply must be read. It has surpassed all the other wisdom books for applicability in western civilization. Indeed it is the foundation stone of much modern thinking.

And why is it such a great book of wisdom. Because for almost any subject Reason2012 and  Amos can find scripture and you or I can find different scripture. Where and how we look tells us who we are and what wisdom we are seeking. It is easy to find conflicting solutions. The other day Ambulance Chaser gave us examples of precedence with American law. Precedence also applies to Moral Law. Discernment  and wise counsel is required of the reader to chose which law to follow with differing Biblical messages. And on Judgement Day, it is not by our good works, nor by our sins, for we all have them, but it is by our choices.   

And reading the Bible is still an inspiration to people today. I read the Bible primarily metaphorically, western society no longer stones adulterers and misbehaving children. I am not one to cure people with exorcism to drive out demons. So yes, I ignore parts of the Biblical commandments. And read other parts, such as Revelation with an eye toward history, but that is another post.


additional reading on Biblical inerrancy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_inerrancy
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on August 06, 2017, 12:27:04 pm
Sharon wrote:
Quote
It's the sign of the Beast! It's saying everyone will end up with this technology so it is the way the Beast is supposed to begin it's take over attempts.
Now this is creepy to read about... But at least I know I am safe with Jesus. Maybe I don't worry, but this is still creepy to think about coming true so quickly.
Yes, Revelation13 speaks of this.
I think I'll re-read Revelations to refresh my mind about it specifically.


I first heard of this mark and number with the US Social Security Numbers issued to American citizen for taxing the population. In fact, every generation has believed that they where the final people. This technology in the past has included, electric lights and telephones.

However, when John of Patmos wrote Revelation in the first century, Christians would have know what he was talking about and 2,000 years later Martin Luther King used the same literary technique, “I have a dream”

Here is that historical interpretation of Chapter 13 of Revelation.
https://www.bibleodyssey.org/en/passages/main-articles/sign-of-the-beast
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on August 06, 2017, 09:48:04 pm

So even tho God has inspired and directed the scripture and even if those first writers copied the Word perfectly, it would not have made it past the scribes. All that hand copying for thousands of years before the printing press was invented would have transformed the Word into something those earlier readers would understand. So it is with many concepts, sins and demons replaced the many ancient gods as the driving forces behinds man’s behavior."

For this I will reply quicker, as I believe in God as Omnipotent. If the Lord put the scriptures in anyone's mind, he would ensure that it was what He wanted to be in it, and he would ensure that it never changed what it was teaching to us. The bible is as much a tool to help us understand what God wanted, and Who God Is, [in many kinds of hats/ names,] as it is history.

God was trying to teach the people of the Old Testament to trust him to take care of them. To trust him to provide for them. He wanted his creation to freely follow him, so he gave us free will. He was angry (hated) about the people who sinned by refusing to follow him, their creator, and yet he loved them, as much as all the other people. He found that no matter what sin the people committed that was not repented for, with a sacrifice of an animal for it's blood, as a way to atone their sins, each sin was equal to each other because God is no respecter of persons and he said no sin was greater than another in that scripture.

I admit also that I am not as familiar with the O.T. as I am with the Gospel. I have read it more and live by it and use the OT to help understand some of the verses that are subtle with their meaning, or need them to clarify something from the gospel.

This is how I look at it in a general way I guess,

I have read the OT a couple of times, and I always felt that God wanted everyone to love him and each other from early in the Hebrew book of Moses. I see the OT speak of Love and it reminds me of what Jesus had done by dying for my sins. The difference in the OT and the NT is Jesus. He kept his fathers desire to find away to get everyone to love each other and taught that the sin is and repentance were important,  but not as important than our loving everyone. I believe it is because he was part human while he was on earth, and his mother and Joseph would have been God's examples of who God wanted us to be, and it made Jesus see the way to help humans to understand what God wanted. He showed many human emotions while he was teaching his people like compassion and understanding. But when Jesus taught as much as was necessary for us to learn the sins to avoid, and how to avoid temptation, that was the time that he was to do his duty to his father, for his people's sake, and allow himself to be crucified for our sins, which meant we are all forgiven our sins, when we repent. He made it complete when blood dripping from his body "replaced" the sacrificing of animals to atone for each sin; I cannot imagine how it felt to have his son crucified and killed the human side for him, to bring us back together. I can't imagine how Abraham could have done what he did with Isaac, except I know that I can trust God just like he did. But not only the pain the Father felt, but think of how hard it would be not to walk away instead allowing himself, as they say, "to be led to the slaughter." I imagined every step he took knowing what was going to happen at the end of the line. Knowing how they were going to put nails into his hands and feet, stabbing him in his side as well. He knew the whole story to at the beginning of his journey what was happening to him before it did, and it would have taken a human an amazing trust in God to be able to "walk that last mile" - I can't imagine being either the Father or the Son in that situation. It would break my heart if I was watching any of my sons have to go through anything even remotely the same. Like it used to be for the family watching the people being hung. Except, you know, it was not for a sin Jesus died at all, it was for a sacrifice to our Father of the human side of his son for his children to be forgiven for their repented sins, along with so much more.

I also believe what I believe because I have personally experienced things that show God providing for us; to help in a hard situation; to give me Joy and there are so many times he gave me peace when I prayed for it. I can honestly see myself relaxing and feeling so calm even when it is a traumatic experience. When I need my burdens carried by Jesus, I forget about it before I leave the room where I pray. If I am extremely angry about something and needed to get over it, I pray for it, and I relax. And no what I have seen of God's blessings in my life, I will not accept that I am delusional or making it up, or anything else, I know what I have experienced and no one can say anything to try to convince me I did not experience it.

The Christian God that I know because of the bible, the only begotten son of God, Lord Jesus. I was never able to read the bible before I came to the church I am in, then when I read it, it was like it was my own way of speaking and I could read it fluently.

I can't tell you to believe; I can't force anyone to believe what I believe; But I can testify to God's presence in my life and I will stand firm in my faith about that. Anyone that believes can have his blessings in their lives, but it has to be looked for even in the simplest things. God knows you better than you know yourself. He knows your likes and dislikes, he knows what will make you sad, or smile.  When I look around me, I see nature as a blessing, I see a tiny flower and I believe it is a blessing; I watch a snail move maybe 2 inches, and it's a blessing. Having love in your life that includes faithfulness and loyalty is a blessing. My children were my biggest blessing and I did not know Jesus then, just God. Each child was God's Gift to me. He gave me each one as a blessing.

BTW Bob.
"I believe that if I know more people's way of looking and believing because of that view, I can get better understanding of the scriptures myself."

I guess I did not word it correctly: "I believe that if I know more people's reasons (with scripture) for believing in Jesus Christ., I can get a better understanding of the scriptures." that was what I meant by people's way of looking and believing because of that view. It was meant about believing in Jesus.

I understand and can see all the research you have done to decide not to have the belief in Jesus/God and it is probably an amazing amount of information, I salute you for being informed before you made a decision. At various times, I have tried to help you see what I believe and that is what I am supposed to do as my duty. I can't make you believe; I can't force you to believe, so all I can do is allow you your own beliefs, and I will stand by my beliefs, and that's ok. But I need to focus on understanding my place with God in my life so much and so clearly, right now along with helping the gays with Christians, I am focusing and drawing nearer. I won't believe what you say makes a difference to me; as I said, it is what I have experienced that makes me believe that God Is.
Blessings!
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: CrowFood on August 07, 2017, 09:28:47 pm
Ok Crowfood,
I'm going to give them to you here since it does not look like I can attach them to a PM.

First one is a crow with full body  for one avatar. And the other is the head of a crow with food in it's mouth. Guess what I thought username that would be a great avatar for?

I am honoured that you will accept my photographs as your avatar.  ;D

Ironically, I believe this is a crow, but it is very confusing because it is brown and I think it has brown eyes. I'm asking friends if anyone can identify it but I think it is a crow. SMH it fits a crow better than any other bird.
Enjoy and let me know if you need any changes, or even another picture, of a crow or anything I have to offer.  I have photographs that are of anything that caught my eye wherever I walked with my dog. I have bees, wasps, dragon flies (did you know they have faces like we do?) snails, and squirrels Cardinals Blue Jays, and sparrows .. whole families of the last two birds.
Blue Jay babies look like pterodactyls when they are screaming to be fed. lol
I'm willing to make anything I have into an avatar if it's possible.
 
Enjoy and God bless!

Hehe. Thanks! I appreciate the thought :) And now I have an avatar!
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on August 08, 2017, 11:17:45 pm
Quote
now I have an avatar!
If you need help with changing the size or anything else let me know Jocasta. It's not a problem for me to do it, Ok.  ;)

Blessings!
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Jocasta on August 08, 2017, 11:35:57 pm
Hehe. Thanks! I appreciate the thought :) And now I have an avatar!

Setting up avatars here isn't too straightforward.  You can't just upload the pictures.  You need to host them someplace like photobucket or imageshack, and then link to them.  I can help you if you need it.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on August 10, 2017, 04:12:14 am
Amos responded to your comment at
http://christiannews.net/2017/07/29/u-s-department-of-justice-files-legal-brief-declaring-title-vii-does-not-include-homosexuality/
with.
Quote
“quoting GODS WORD is always an effective argument if a person is a Christian ..... the OT God and the NT God are the SAME GOD ............. the plan of salvation has not changed one iota .... we are saved by grace through faith .... every person ever saved OT and NT was saved in this manner ............. ALL SINS ARE DEATH ..... they are a violation of Gods law and the wages of sin IS DEATH ... Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. .... nothing has changed .........

Oddly enough I do not disagree with what Amos has written. However, I am certain we would disagree on the meaning of those words.

“SAME GOD” - old and new- yep. But Jesus was added to the team for anger management. All interactions go through Jesus.

“we are saved by grace” - agreed not by works (such as proselytizing or confronting sinners), not by confession of sins. Jesus looks into our hearts.

“the wages of sin IS DEATH” Original sin, to be human is to sin. To be human is to die. So to be human is to sin and to die. The price of living is death.

“but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ” Kind of a no brainer, you live, you die, you have eternal life in the resurrection. Oh and gifts are gifts. If you have to sit through the timeshare presentation it is not a free trip.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: RavynousHunter on August 10, 2017, 07:48:37 am
Therein lies the problem with the whole "salvation by faith" idea: its a doctrine of pure laziness.  You don't have to actually do anything, as one can believe whilst sitting firmly on one's own ass.  Say some pretty words and "feel it in your heart," and boom, straight to eternity you go once the reaper gets around to you.  The guy who sat on his ass eating Cheetos until he died from a heart attack, covered in Cheeto dust, but was a believing Christian man is getting into eternal paradise, whereas a non-believer who spends a significant portion of his time and money feeding the homeless, volunteering at the children's oncology ward, and so on, is going straight to damnation.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: pyro on August 10, 2017, 12:29:54 pm
"Salvation through faith alone" is the only way, given that all sins are equal, to not just doom everybody to being locked downstairs.

Either some sins aren't worthy of hell, or there are people who do not sin, or everybody is doomed to hell, or you're not going to hell even if you do deserve it. There aren't any other options given those two premises.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on August 10, 2017, 12:45:15 pm
I addressed the Saved by Grace you mentioned. It's really long, so I would have to leave the part about the non-believer with all those good works until another post. Can you please let me know if you want that to be explained specifically or if the basics of what I have said help you to not need that.
To POST OR NOT TO POST! that is the question!  ;D
Hi RavynousHunter! I agree with you on each thing you said, and I'm sure the others know I share this belief.
My religion is focused more on the Love of Jesus than some others, but we do follow what Jesus told us to do, so we behave as he did and wanted us to try to be like. Try because he knew our flesh would fail, and that is why he gave us the grace in the first place. The Grace he promised us is about forgiving our sins when we repent for them and try not to sin. For us, it isn't flat out grace for all sins, or for not doing 'anything' for forgiveness. Jesus told us and showed us examples of how he behaved towards the other people to encourage us to be like him - a reflection of his goodness - so it will show the world the love and good works we do, by reflecting what Jesus wanted us to be like, it is following his word and it was taught for a reason.
Jesus came to Minister to his people. The point of the believing in Salvation is to set up the rest of the belief he desires from each of us. We start off by believing that Jesus came to Earth as the only Begotten Son, to die for our sins. To 'make up' with God for bad behaviour in the past, more or less. But without repentance of our sins, after our initial belief in the crucifixion and it's reason for happening, it goes further by Jesus' teaching, that all our past sins will be forgiven in Grace and we are to try NOT to sin, and by recognizing our sins and repenting for them.
It's not for him, because he can see our hearts and determine whether there is any evil intent in why you are committing a sin. If there is none, but there is not a reason from love to do it, like a habit like smoking, it is still a sin.
When the scripture told us that love covers a multitude of sin, I figure that the people who were actually chosen by God, are already people who will have a lot of love to share, and would be less inclined to sin than many others. The Grace he shows them is by justifying their salvation by how much love is expressed in their lives, and as for the good works, they are both to please God, to show others the love we have as followers of Jesus, and to reflect what Jesus also came to tell everyone. That it is love that will create the kind of world where we all get along, and sin will not be likely when we all love each other because we do not want to hurt anyone we love.
Helping each other is a key thing in a loving functional society. Jesus was trying to help us be the people we were created to be, and the offer of Salvation is an attempt to bring people to see the reality of a world of peace. Jesus did however stress the repentance of sin, and I look at that as how he wants us to remember not to sin. It is a reality of the flesh that we sin, and with repentance, we will try not to sin (that sin) if we are reminded frequently, as you are supposed to ask the lord for forgiveness of sins and we need to recognize the sins we do by not taking everything we have done as just part of our lives, and looking at them to see if there is any offense to God in how we do things. Sins are not always obvious and need to be looked for and recognized.
I think what Jesus told us that is beyond the Salvation he has offered to all of us, there has to be a purpose in Salvation, or why did he minister to the people about the things he did. Like how to treat each other, which is a source of sinful behaviour. What Jesus came to say beyond the need to repent for sins, is wrapped up in the second commandment as well as the 'golden rule'. He told us to Love everyone and to treat everyone the way we want to be treated.
The bible actually tells us in scripture that we cannot be lazy about spreading the gospel.
Salvation is about believing in God sending his only begotten son <half God, half human> to die for our sins, to reconcile <make up> us to God along with the grace to forgive our sins, but even in the OT God wanted us to repent for our sins.
Ok so God always wanted his creation to love each other, and the repentance of sin is to show God that he is who we love and trust, so if what I am doing is a sin, and I love God, because we do not want to hurt the ones we love, we should ask for forgiveness for the sin that caused our Father to feel we did not love him as we said we would. Just as a child can feel so bad about behaving improperly that they cry and are inconsolable when they apologize for it. Heartfelt apology for doing something that could hurt someone else.
The main thing to remember is that God is omnipotent: he can do literally anything he wants to do; again, but, he is righteous and Just and he loves us all - he loved(s) us as sinners and showed that love by allowing himself (the human side) to know he was going to die and what for, and knowing how we would feel doing the same thing. Because he is part human and I don't see a lot of Jesus using his powers when he was on earth except to do the miracles that he did so the people would see them and believe that he has powers that are of God, and believe in the purpose of the crucifixion and learn about what it all about, including salvation by repentance of sin.
The Holy Baptism of Water, which a lot of religions do with babies, and we do only blessings for children, and baptize someone only if they are confident that they believe in Jesus. The water baptism is about repentance. When we are baptized, we receive the Holy Spirit to help us to recognize our sins, and encourage us to get beyond the temptations so we don't sin. It doesn't make you choose to not sin, it just sort of nudges you like that little angel on your right side that uses the wand (isn't it?) that tells us in the cartoons "Don't Do it!" while the evil side is dressed like what the devil is supposed to look  like, with a pitchfork to convince you that it is ok to sin, saying "Do it, it won't matter, go ahead!!' That is kind of a true look at your conscience fighting temptation of sin when you think about it.
So in my belief, God has offered us grace to forgive our sins, but he wants us to recognize and repent of our sins so we are trying not to sin at all. trying, because he knows we are flesh and will fail. but as long as you ask him to forgive you, you are sinless. He forgets what you did, and it will be removed from your "life book" altogether and won't be brought up again. ever.
Being reborn is accepting Jesus and being forgiven for all past sin, and having a new slate to begin anew.
We still have to learn what Jesus told us, and become the person that God created us to be. That is in the Gospel.
I always suggest that people read the gospel keeping in mind the love and see how often love is mentioned when Jesus talks about sin. When you read the Bible, you should pray for understanding and God will direct you to, and give you understanding of scriptures he knows will help you in your life, either right then, or in your future that it will come to mind when you need it.
I believe that Jesus would not exactly make it a condition for Salvation, as much as he was teaching us the behaviour that is needed to have a peaceful world: love. Think of it like this, He wants us to love and treat each other well. If you "believe" and leave it at that, without recognition of sin, or showing love to others at all, or even if you are showing hate, which is 'evil' and of the darkness, you are not showing the behaviour that Jesus wants so he will have peace for his children. How would someone like that every be considered by God as someone who thinks the Elect won't be judged at all? No, he would know what the person is like all through their lives. So the people who are truly the Elect is not just anyone, they are already known by God to be people who would be acceptable, and know the way they would deal with sin, and try hard to be without sin. Not people who think that the grace of salvation is as you describe the Cheetos man.
If heaven is going to be the place with no sin, the spirits of the people must be like Jesus and love each other and not sin against anyone. If someone hates even one person without forgiveness, they cannot guarantee their own salvation, it would be up to God to look at your heart and the love you have shown and decide if that hate in your heart will affect your spirit in heaven I guess, essentially.
 In our church services, we give Worship and Praise in song to the Lord our God. We give each week a scripture with its understanding given through the service. We have offerings from people who can afford to give. Tithes are a personal thing between you and God because many people cannot pay tithes and survive. Although we trust the Lord to provide, we also don't think it was intended as a continual thing when it comes to money, and realize that because he knows what our individuals circumstances are himself, and allows for whether it will be too much of a hardship for us. He is righteous and Just.
There is no doubt that God loves us and wants us all to come to be saved. But because there is evil in this world, he has to ensure that the spirits of people who he saves are not inherently evil. I think if there is any evil at all, we will not be saved. Even with repentance of sin, if your intentions about a sin is evil, as in it was done to hurt someone on purpose, and your repentance is not true if you harbor any evil in your soul. We have to be honest with ourselves as well as with God. We can't honestly ignore the fact that the reason you committed a sin was to 'get that person back' or to show the person you think he's a goof or anything else, if it was a malicious action that you don't repent for that evil intent, but just for the action and you keep it in your heart after repentance, it is like doing the sin, and not repenting. or doing it with the idea that it's ok to sin because we can always repent later. Somehow, I can't imagine forgiving anyone who sinned with repentance in mind when they did it.
So the Grace of Forgiveness of sin, is conditional after your first commitment to Jesus - is actually for the sins of the past, repented for at the baptism in our case, and the act of immersion represents Jesus being dead and buried, and the act of coming out of the water  is to represent his resurrection after his death. We are "dead" from sin, and are resurrected with Christ to try to live in a sinless life with repentance for the sins we commit when we ask for it.
Jesus never said, "hey you know you are saved. so Don't worry about it when you sin, not a problem you can do whatever you want (wink wink)  and I will forgive you."
Anyone who wants to have Eternal life - of Joy and happiness - without sorrow - as that is a promise and he will keep all of this (< = > 300 promises) to us.

God has never said that repentance is optional, and has made it very clear that recognition of sin, repentance of sin (which means you do not want to sin against God again, so you will make it a personal thing to try not to sin and by recognition of the sin, you are making / being aware of your actions and changing them to exclude sins you can avoid by making changes in your life. By saying you are sorry for the sin, and that you will try hard not to sin that sin again, God is saying that his grace will forgive you the sin when you are trying to stop doing it, and strive to not have sins in your actions, or your heart.
He has never said that we are allowed to sin. He has consistently said he wants us to repent of our sins. With the offer of Grace for sins, it is about past sin when you come to Jesus in faith that his mission on earth was true, and Trusting God to know what is best for us, as his creation, as someone Omnipotent who loves us completely, knowing God will never hurt us and will protect us, and provide things for us that we need. We have to recognize his love and know that it is a true love that will never end.
We can trust Jesus, We can have faith in his words. Because of the Love that he has always had for us that makes us love him back when we recognize his goodness, along with his love.
One evening service my Pastor set up a chance for members to make a song to share with the other members. There was total hesitation to be the first person, and I am the type of person that when I see people hesitate (about things they want to do, but do not want to be first, I volunteer to be first and break the ice for them to feel able to come up. I shocked my friend + Pastor because I am uncomfortable singing to the church, I can sing with everyone else, but a Capella (is that the right way to spell it?) is not something I like doing because I have hearing problems and feel they must affect my singing without music or accompaniment. Anyway, I chose to go first.
I worked for 2 weeks and finally I asked God for help with my song. I was able to use an instrumental piano song that is called "I love you Lord" that we had been singing with words similar but not the same as my own song, for the tune. I was actually given an unheard of before, Ovation by the whole church for my song. (Trying not to brag but want to make you recognize how much it says about how we feel about our God.)

"I love you, I love you, I'll love you Lord, always,
You'll forever care for me, and teach me all your ways,

To Praise you, and Worship you, and to always trust your word,
That's why I give my heart to you.

The Peace and Joy, and the Hope that are in my life,
These things you gave to me, the day you set me free.

To Praise you, and Worship you, and to always trust your word,
that's why I give my heart to you.... that's why I gave my heart to you.


These are the things in my life that make me happier to follow him. I have had experience with the Peace he offers. I have had experience with the Joy he offered. It was different that the way I felt about Peace and Joy before I was faithful. It was almost like it was a blanket that covers me and when it's done covering me, I feel Peace like no other time.

So believe that any good works still makes our God happy, and it is something that should be done for others whether it is to "earn" something or not, shouldn't it?
He said his Yoke was easy and it is true. If you are basically an honest and caring person it really isn't a big deal to make the small changes to your life that he asks of us. It's helping us become the people that God had wanted when he created us, but he gave us free will, and some people chose to not believe in him. That is why he wants people to repent and show their sorrow about their sins, and try not to sin. We don't just ask for forgiveness and forget about it, we have to be sorry - truly sorry for committing a sin against God's Word, because that is how loving someone and hurting them feels, horrible.

In a way, one could think that God is asking his creation to help 'fix' the problems (with his creation) that would create a world of his creation's spirits without sin. with tons of love. A wonderful world that will Eternally be a happy joyful place.
I used to look at it, that if it being good that the Lord wants, and it will help me attain Eternal life, whether it is true or not, it is better than the idea of death is just the end, and it isn't asking us to be evil, but good people. To make our world better.

Wouldn't it be worth the trouble of not sinning and being good to other people to find Eternal life after death instead of nothingness? Telling us about Hell is as a deterrent for us to not be sinners, but it is thought of by some as a threat to "make you behave". Others don't want to think about Eternal tormenting and just refuse to believe it, so they are not afraid of it being a reality. Belief that God exists and therefore Hell exists admits the reality of it; by not admitting it they can feel good when they sin against another person, instead of forgiving them and treating them with love and caring. Forgiving others is not always an easy thing and having the support to help you forgive someone makes it a lot easier. Encouragement is a big thing within the faith.
He would not have bothered making sure the NT has everything it does, if we are Saved by Grace and do not need to worry about how we behave? Why not just push the sin, and the punishment of sin and that we had better love him OR ELSE!! instead of trying to give us the world that we would be happier in.
Wow, this is a major ramble!! But honestly, you have given me the chance to explain a lot about my personal and my church beliefs and I like to be able to share of our view of the bible that is viewed differently than others. So I very much appreciate your post.
God blessings!

Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: RavynousHunter on August 10, 2017, 01:54:16 pm
Lemme see if I can suss out the TL;DR of it...basically, good acts are used as a method of counter-balancing sin?  That's about what I was taught as a Witness when I was a kid.  Basically, everybody sins, but most transgressions are fairly minor and you can compensate for them by doing good in your daily life.  Bigger sins need bigger compensation, but there are some for which there is no adequate recompense, eg murder.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Jocasta on August 10, 2017, 02:45:37 pm
Since I've been able to draw breath I have had issues with the whole "salvation by faith alone" thing.  It basically means that you could have an Adolf Hitler type creature who wipes out millions of people and then has a deathbed conversion and the slate is magically wiped clean and he goes to heaven.  There's a whole lot of NOPE going on there for me personally.

Then again, I was raised Catholic, and for them it's faith PLUS works (and works I don't think are the kinds that Bob suggested, i.e. proselytizing or confronting) but GOOD works, i.e. deeds, acts of charity, etc.

The Catholics I think are closer to the mark on this one, personally.  Not that I don't have issues with them as well.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on August 10, 2017, 03:51:07 pm
Lemme see if I can suss out the TL;DR of it...basically, good acts are used as a method of counter-balancing sin? 

And from Jocasta
Quote
Then again, I was raised Catholic

This view has been explained by Father Guido Sarducci at:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7ykYHwG5i4


Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: pyro on August 10, 2017, 04:00:20 pm
I think the other reason for "salvation by faith alone" doctrine is that you really do need to provide everyone a way out. As "The Art of War" puts it:  “When you surround an army, leave an outlet free. Do not press a desperate foe too hard.”

Frankly, if I was going to blame one problem for the fracturing of the church, it's that they've forgotten that principle. Instead of the hybridization and centralization that made the middle ages so successful, they'd rather run on ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AttackAttackAttack) mode and slaughter their enemies instead of having them surrender.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on August 10, 2017, 05:43:14 pm
It's not for him, because he can see our hearts and determine whether there is any evil intent in why you are committing a sin.

So would this mean that General Eisenhower, Supreme Allied Commander Europe, who ordered the bombing of Dresden killing thousands of Christian non-combatants, did so without evil while Hitler’s killing of the Jewish “Christ Killers” was evil?

Quote
it just sort of nudges you like that little angel on your right side that uses the wand (isn't it?) that tells us in the cartoons "Don't Do it!" while the evil side is dressed like what the devil is supposed to look  like, with a pitchfork to convince you that it is ok to sin, saying "Do it, it won't matter, go ahead!!'

“Right side” and this is a continuing remnant of that old sin that left-hand people are of the devil. And in days of old would be put to death for their own Salvation.


Quote
But because there is evil in this world, he has to ensure that the spirits of people who he saves are not inherently evil. I think if there is any evil at all, we will not be saved. Even with repentance of sin, if your intentions about a sin is evil, as in it was done to hurt someone on purpose, and your repentance is not true if you harbor any evil in your soul.

So in the spirt of those long discussions I had back while learning my Catechism, what of the Confederate soldier who died on the battlefield after killing fellow American Union troops? Is he in hell?  He certainly killed with “to hurt someone on purpose". He did not have a chance to repent kill other humans. Is killing an enemy somehow okay? Does it depend on the “justice-ness” of the war? In which case do we need to know if owning slaves is biblical and just? Much biblical writing of the time (1860s) supported the South. Does that mean that the Northern Cause was that of Satan? And Satan won?

The devil, as they say, is in the details.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: RavynousHunter on August 10, 2017, 07:40:40 pm
I think the other reason for "salvation by faith alone" doctrine is that you really do need to provide everyone a way out. As "The Art of War" puts it:  “When you surround an army, leave an outlet free. Do not press a desperate foe too hard.”

Frankly, if I was going to blame one problem for the fracturing of the church, it's that they've forgotten that principle. Instead of the hybridization and centralization that made the middle ages so successful, they'd rather run on ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AttackAttackAttack) mode and slaughter their enemies instead of having them surrender.

That, or surround them, then set em on fire.  At least, that's what Dynasty Warriors taught me.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: CrowFood on August 10, 2017, 08:44:25 pm
I mean...

Sola fide as a doctrine mostly exists because of the Lutheran tenant that all sins are equal before God, the doctrine of Total Depravity, IIRC. As a result, only grace can save you, and one is justified by faith. Part of the issue is how the word has changed. Faith, in modern context, is belief. However, faith in the Middle Ages would be something more akin to "loyalty" or "dedication." Hence, "keeping faith" was "staying loyal and true" and being unfaithful is akin to betrayal.

Nowadays, it's a "get out of hell free" card. But even cursory examination of doctrines shows this isn't the case outside of a few radical denominations. Also, several passages counter it, so...*shrug*
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on August 11, 2017, 02:44:34 am

If I win, I live.  If I lose, I die.  Unless I fight, I cannot win.



I would have bet the quote came from Tyrion Lannister.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: RavynousHunter on August 11, 2017, 10:22:57 am

If I win, I live.  If I lose, I die.  Unless I fight, I cannot win.



I would have bet the quote came from Tyrion Lannister.

Ha!  It'd work from either of em, but I heard it from Attack on Titan.  Kinda my attitude towards life, for better or worse.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on August 12, 2017, 01:19:27 pm
Sharon wrote:
Quote
There is a video out there about a study done with 6 professional photographers, who each photographed, unknowingly, the same man, but was told that the man was different people

Do you have a link  for that video? I would love to see it.

Thanks
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on August 12, 2017, 08:05:14 pm
Here's the link Bob. It's incredibly good at what it is saying.

http://educateinspirechange.org/alternative-news/six-photographers-took-the-same-mans-picture-you-need-to-see-what-they-captured/

So now I have had 9 posts I had that was in the  Disney Preschooler Animation ‘Doc McStuffins’ Features Family With ‘Two Moms’ thread,

Geeze I'd like to know how to get them to tell me their reasons. But of course I know what it is. I was arguing for the gays, and not against them.

I will not give up!!!!!!!!!
after tomorrow. lol I'm off until morning and then until after church.
God bless and Have a good night/day!
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on August 15, 2017, 06:21:41 pm
"Salvation through faith alone" is the only way, given that all sins are equal, to not just doom everybody to being locked downstairs.
Either some sins aren't worthy of hell, or there are people who do not sin, or everybody is doomed to hell, or you're not going to hell even if you do deserve it. There aren't any other options given those two premises.

I understand from the scriptures that Jesus put love above sin by telling us that love covers a multitude of sin.
So when you consider that Jesus will judge with Righteousness and He is Just, I expect only the very evil people are big on the list of the damned, but when I look at both the OT and NT the ones that refused God, were damned, but then Jesus said that some will be justified by the love in their hearts which covers the darkness of evil.
Evil is the one thing God will not tolerate in Heaven. 
I'm not sure that that would cover their refusal or not, that has to be up to Jesus and I guess that person's Book of Life section?
As the final commandment is love each other as yourself, do you think sin will take precedence over Love? 
The Gospel is full of Jesus' love, and while he ministered to the Apostles and disciples and any reader of the bible, he kept talking about love, even when he was talking about sin, he spoke of love.
I can't imagine Jesus accepting evil into Heaven, and the various things that we don't understand, like good people who never heard the gospel, we have to trust Jesus to take care of them. He would never want to send someone good to hell, not without a big reason.
I look at the Beatitudes when I wonder about the people who seem like they would be able to be saved, but don't follow Jesus. There are places that Jesus will have for anyone who does not go to Hell. He loves us, he wants us all to come to salvation so we can have a world based on love of each other.
But he does not want evil because evil means people will sin against each other. That is why he looks in our heart. Anyone with evil will not make it to heaven.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: pyro on August 15, 2017, 08:09:43 pm
That's the "some sins are more evil than others" option, and it's the one that fits intuition best (jaywalking is not as evil as arson or murder, intuitively speaking). That's cool.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on August 15, 2017, 09:08:08 pm
That's the "some sins are more evil than others" option, and it's the one that fits intuition best (jaywalking is not as evil as arson or murder, intuitively speaking). That's cool.
Just the fact that Jesus loves all of us, makes it easier to understand his word in the way that we can see the way he led us in the Gospel to show us the way. The Truth. the straight and narrow path. He didn't just teach us about sin, but it was clear the lessons he showed as an example of the way to behave as he did.

You want to know how I see The Truth Pyro? well, you get to anyways lol

Right from the beginning all God wanted was a world of people who would love him for making our lives so wonderful. He provides, he blesses, he shows the people who believe so many wonderful things and help within their lives.

A world of love should not have sin as love means never hurting the one you love. So without sin, the world will be without sorrow, without tears. with peace and joy. Just like Heaven is told to be.

So I think Jesus will use every way possible to get people who are not evil into his new world and heaven.
He loves us completely, with the self sacrificing, with having at heart the welfare + best interest of the object loved - which is us!

Just love, and continue to be a good person, Pyro, you'll show God that you want to follow him all the way. Complete Trust and Complete loyalty. Nothing less I guess. But loving Jesus makes it easy to give up things that don't matter as much once you know about him. repentance comes easy with the knowledge that your sin will be forgiven, and forgotten.
Love God, Love each other, love love love.  The Beatles song "All you need is love" is a very accurate title for what the Lord wants for us. Peace Joy. and a sense of wonder at the way he loves us, when we are so much less than he is, and yet he treats us with love so much throughout the journey.
God Bless!
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on August 27, 2017, 02:36:12 pm
The "deleted" wikipedia link was from Roger Greenslade and was for "field slaves in the United States"
And the post was not deleted but is lower down in the comments
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on August 27, 2017, 03:04:22 pm
That's strange. I would have replied to the link and the reply went to Doug.
Very strange.
Thanks for letting me know. I'm surprised that Doug Bristow did not correct that.
Was the link there yesterday?
I will apologize again... but honestly I find this situation strange.
They deleted so many posts it's not a surprise I screwed up though.
The link isn't there anymore at all.

Like I said, I find this odd. I don't hit the wrong reply very often because I have before and I know it's a hassle getting a reply from someone you did not intend to.

I can't imagine me saying it to him without it being right where my comment was. It should have been between our two comments, and it's gone.

Does anyone know who K.P. is? If she is what she says she is, she's a feisty lady. I still think she sounded like a troll the way she wrote the first post.

Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on August 31, 2017, 08:58:03 am
I've just read the 'rules' for posting. Depending on the Moderators religious beliefs, I could have been banned for disagreeing with others about the Belief I have.
Does anyone know how I can contact them to find out why I was banned. I don't expect they will bother answering, but other people have found out before so I thought if nothing else, I will point out the way Amos behaves with me. If he doesn't get banned from the way he speaks to people then we know he has friends in high places.

If I go on with another name/email they can't ban me because they "think' it's me, can they?

I don't know whether to be annoyed, or sad because I can't post, but at this point I am just frustrated.

I've noticed a lot of unfamiliar names too. Just before I was banned I had at least 2 people practically attack me, to the point where with one of them I refused to keep replying.

If I don't get back on the board, they will convince everyone that God is a hateful God. 
Do you know I can't get one of them, not even one, to address the last commandment to love each other, oh except Amos who doesn't count. He says that the Love Jesus was talking about what an ACTION not an Emotion. I've come to the conclusion that he doesn't know what Love is. He honestly has no conception of how it feels to love.

I just read some of the comments from Aug. 10.

Jocasta I don't think you can go to heaven just by being loyal and dedicated without following the instructions that Jesus gave us to do to be considered "good" Christians. He told us how to behave properly as Christians and the Lutherans (Amos) do not think that they have to follow those instructions to be saved.
Jesus made it plain that we are to do what he instructed us to do when he told us that some would not be known by Jesus when they came calling Lord Lord because they were not behaving the way that he wants Christians to behave. If they had realized that Jesus had told us how to be good Christians, there would not be the problems with Christians that there are.
Ok so there would be less....

The really bad attitude they have beyond their feeling like they are the privileged people of God, and no one else is right about their belief. Jesus told us there would be more than one church and he did not indicate that they were not Christian Churches.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on August 31, 2017, 02:59:27 pm
Rules? I don’t think Christian News Network plays by any rules. They post rules, because, well, they have to. But they don’t use those rules when removing messages or banning people.

I have never heard of Christian News Network providing a reason for their actions or reinstating people. Some other blogs do. Checkmate certainly doesn’t. The only comments I have heard are comments made on other sites by people who were banned, those folk never had actual reasons from CNN.

Quote
If I go on with another name/email they can't ban me because they "think' it's me, can they?

Generally no. However, the mods may well be looking closer to new people. And there are a couple of different ways to ban someone. First and most usual is to simply to ban the disqus account. This means MamBearly can no longer post messages. More complex for the mods is to ban an IP address. This means the “location” where you post will be blocked. This has happened to Jocasta. If you make posts from home, this means you can not use your home computer*(caveat, see below). If you post from a laptop or tablet, it means you need to find a new Starbucks.

* caveat - The TOR web browser scrambles IP addresses so you can still make posts from your home computer.

Quote
I don't know whether to be annoyed, or sad because I can't post, but at this point I am just frustrated.

Be all of the above. Think of Christian News Network as a video game. Most folks play for a while and when they get killed they go away. However, like video games you can have many new lives and continue to play. I have a friend who plays video games very carefully, never dying, however, she never gets off Level One. Jocasta is just the opposite, sometimes losing a new persona within hours.

Like any video game Christian News can be frustrating. However, like video games you have only lost one month of posts. Check out

https://disqus.com/by/MamaBearly/

1728 comments refuting Amos, et. al. - many of them “Guest”
and 1467 High Fives (upvotes) from people  influenced by you. And of course many many more people who have read you comments as a rebuttal to much of the hate.

How about a naming contest for the new you? How about “Daughter of Jairus”?
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on August 31, 2017, 04:22:38 pm
Quote
If I go on with another name/email they can't ban me because they "think' it's me, can they?

Quote
I don't know whether to be annoyed, or sad because I can't post, but at this point I am just frustrated.
Bob you are SO good for me! I send you multiple hugs. Thank you for pointing out the upvotes, I had not noticed that on the side before. So I might have made a difference to more than I imagined I might. That's a nice thought.  ;D

Quote
How about a naming contest for the new you? How about “Daughter of Jairus”?

Ok I'm open for suggestions, I am looking forward to seeing what you all suggest!

Anyone want to enter our contest?  ;D
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: davedan on August 31, 2017, 06:06:00 pm
I love the daughter thing but I would go for 'Daughter of Jephthah'
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: niam2023 on August 31, 2017, 06:21:46 pm
How about Lady of Jumping Jehosaphat
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on August 31, 2017, 07:52:41 pm
Here are the names so far
Daughter of Jairus
Daughter of Jephthah
Lady of Jumping Jehosaphat

My Dad's name happens to be Harvey. How about 'Daughter of Harvey' ::)

I'm sure there will be a few more, I'll give it a few days.
I think I'm going to have fun picking one of them... maybe I'll keep the list for when I am banned next time. lol!!
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on September 01, 2017, 07:16:54 pm
Here are the names so far
Daughter of Jairus
Daughter of Jephthah
Lady of Jumping Jehosaphat

More folks who have risen from the dead -
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on September 01, 2017, 08:02:06 pm
I think I'll pick after the long weekend.  ;)

I will not be online during the day until after Sept. 21st.

My church is having 3 weeks of fasting and because I am diabetic and cannot fast from food, I fast from my computer for the day instead.

Starts the 2nd.

Don't have too much fun with Amos, I'm looking forward to making a new me to trouble him. I have to figure out what I can say and how to say it though so they can't figure out that it is me, right Jocasta?

I've got a good imagination, I expect if I try I will get to explain the gospel, just not like I have.

I really wonder if that was Amos at the beginning of the King's conversation with him. It was awfully wordy for him.
He never did that even at the beginning I don't think.

So see you in the evenings only!! Blessings and Have a Great Day/Night!!
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: pyro on September 01, 2017, 08:49:17 pm
More folks who have risen from the dead -
  • Jon Snow
  • Sherlock Holms
  • Westley (Princess Bride)
  • Gandalf


* The stories describe the characters as experiencing cardiovascular death, but they treat this as separate from being "really dead." In particular, the characters didn't enter the afterlife.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Askold on September 02, 2017, 12:59:31 am
-Beetlejuice
-Commander Shepard
-Doctor Who (repeatedly)
-Beetlejuice
-Commander James Bond
-Prince Arthas
-Zombies, skeletons and vampires
-Beetlejuhashhdhghaf... I'm not falling for that trick again!
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: RavynousHunter on September 02, 2017, 08:43:41 am
Captain Jack Sparrow?
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: pyro on September 02, 2017, 10:43:29 am
And suddenly a skelation popped out! BOO!!!
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: KingOfRhye on September 03, 2017, 05:13:49 am
I really wonder if that was Amos at the beginning of the King's conversation with him. It was awfully wordy for him.
He never did that even at the beginning I don't think.

I'm not sure exactly which one you're talking about....was it the thread (now mostly erased!) about the Chilean President seeking to legalize marriage?  Anyway, that is one of Amos's things that he does every so often, he copy-and-pastes something from somewhere, usually without saying where it's from.  You can always tell when he's doing that, of course, by the noticeable lack of completely unnecessary ellipses after every few words.  I usually just Google whatever it is, and find out where it came from.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: CrowFood on September 06, 2017, 11:22:16 pm
Various Lovecraftian entities might also fit. After all, "That is not dead/Which can eternal lie"
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on September 12, 2017, 08:02:04 pm
Oops. Sorry, I posted that last comment in the wrong spot at CNN and can not change it.
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on September 12, 2017, 08:21:55 pm
https://santitafarella.wordpress.com/2014/12/28/some-good-reasons-to-think-adam-and-eve-never-existed/

Is a general article. If you want the peer-revievied they get very technical (and mathematical) in the first paragraph.


You know how I like to read....

peer reviewed
20 years old
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Alan_Rogers2/publication/13652242_Using_mitochondrial_and_nuclear_DNA_markers_to_reconstruct_evolution/links/00b4952080b68ac5bd000000.pdf

8 years old
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2009/10/05/rspb.2009.1473
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Sharon_at_home on September 14, 2017, 05:51:08 pm
Amos isn't as thick-headed as I thought: he's already figured out Beamer/MamaBearly/Sharon_at_home. 8)
I think I'll go find another place to spread the gospel.  ::)

I've really enjoyed our discussions and our internet friendships. You all were very kind to me and I have already told others about the truth about some atheists researching and making conclusions on their own.  ;)

The information some of you provided helped me with my life and made me see some things more clearly because of what you taught me.  ;)

I'll check back off and on I expect to say Hi!  ;D

God blessings to each of you!!  Take care of yourselves!
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: KingOfRhye on September 16, 2017, 12:02:31 am
Oh wait....

Quote
Beamer/MamaBearly/Sharon_at_home.

You're Beamer, Sharon???  I totally didn't realize that.  LOL
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on September 16, 2017, 03:24:30 pm
Quote
“Do you believe everything you read. This person is crazy to think that the mind and the brain are two different entities and that they work separately (at least that is what I am reading from this)
Obviously he does not understand the Omnipotence of God because God put everything together in a way that this man does not grasp. He sounds like a scientist that wants to prove a concept that he cannot prove.
This is what this man believes, it is an opinion not fact.”

Actually a couple of items on this post of yours, which I just upvoted. First. the attribution to Devraj Wodeyar is misleading. He is a chemist and blogger, who copied it from
http://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/dualism.htm
a Christian ministry in Colorado.

The quote is in support of dualism and against materialism. That is, he states “If dualism that is not true.” And what he is arguing is that the soul survives after the death of the brain / body.
Title: Disqus was hacked
Post by: Sharon_at_home on October 16, 2017, 06:13:50 pm
Has anyone else seen this?

 Security Alert: User Info Breach
Posted by Jason Yan on October 06, 2017

Disqus was hacked into so you should go check it out if you think it may have affected you.

https://blog.disqus.com/security-alert-user-info-breach?utm_source=motd_home&amp;utm_medium=web
Title: Re: Conversations with Sharon at home
Post by: Bob J. on December 01, 2017, 09:39:30 pm
Eldrida, you stated, "Well, I don't agree with you both at all.."

Great, disagreement with others is now I learn. And over here we are much more civil than TruthvLies.

P.S. TruthvLies' responses to you have been popular over at
http://www.fstdt.com/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=134740
He certainly knows how to put his foot in his mouth.