Author Topic: Creationism does harm education  (Read 1475 times)

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Offline the_ignored

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Creationism does harm education
« on: April 25, 2013, 07:59:42 pm »
PZ Myers picked this one apart, and boy, it's good.  Someone wrote a letter to a newspaper whining about the fact that someone else had written a letter saying that creationism harms education.  Myers shows that the reply letter is so full of errors of various kinds that he actually helps the case of the first letter-writer.

Offline Dan

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Re: Creationism does harm education
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2013, 03:03:01 pm »
Your post is about a post about a letter about a letter?

My brain hurts.

Offline Rabbit of Caerbannog

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Re: Creationism does harm education
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2013, 03:19:49 pm »
Your post is about a post about a letter about a letter?

My brain hurts.
And your post is about a post about a post about a letter about a letter.

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Creationism does harm education
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2013, 03:49:52 pm »
Whereas yours is a post about a post....

Screw it, let's get Douglas Hofstadter to write a book about this thread.
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Offline Dynamic Dragon

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Re: Creationism does harm education
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2013, 03:56:40 pm »
Learn from the past, live in the present, prepare for the future.

Offline SpaceProg

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Re: Creationism does harm education
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2013, 09:00:43 pm »
If it's to do with science, the most likely theory should be taught, then the 'runner up' theories.  When it comes to intelligent design, it's too metaphysical to assign to a science class.  Maybe if there's a religion elective or club, maybe discuss it, but not in science.  As much as I believe something out there had a hand in the creation of the Universe, It cannot be tested or proven (as of yet) and therefore does not belong in the pure sciences.

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Creationism does harm education
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2013, 09:53:43 pm »
When it comes to intelligent design, it's too metaphysical to assign to a science class.
The problem isn't that ID is too metaphysical. The problem is that it's not true.
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Offline the_ignored

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Re: Creationism does harm education
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2013, 10:11:56 pm »
And you can just feel education going down the tubes when you read this facebook post by Ken Ham.


Offline Caitshidhe

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Re: Creationism does harm education
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2013, 10:45:53 pm »
Fucking hell, that's an awful lot of shit-eating smug, self-righteous, anti-science BULLSHIT in just one letter. Never mind Ken Ham's FB post. Creationists are welcome to use all the long-winded strawman-and-red-herring-laden arguments they want to argue that evolution isn't worth being taught in schools or that creationism is better, but at the end of the day all those words don't do shit in the face of the mountains of evidence found in palaeontology, geology, biology, astronomy, and on and on almost without number.

Some people really are just completely dead-set determined to remain ignorant and make sure everybody else is, too. These people should not be allowed within a thousand feet of a school.
'The idea that things must have a beginning is really due to the poverty of our imaginations.' -- Bertrand Russel

Offline SpaceProg

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Re: Creationism does harm education
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2013, 01:39:13 pm »
When it comes to intelligent design, it's too metaphysical to assign to a science class.
The problem isn't that ID is too metaphysical. The problem is that it's not true.

Well, I respect your opinion on that, even if I don't share it. 
Now, concerning what I have bolded, (this is said without a hint of smart-assery intended):
I envy your ability to be so certain of such things.


That said though... I still agree with most people here when I say science should stay with science and religion should stay with religion.

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Creationism does harm education
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2013, 04:02:17 pm »
Such things being what? Biology?

ID goes directly against one of the best-supported theories we have, is rejected by virtually every expert in its field, and the only reason it was even proposed in the first place was to defend a particular mythology. I don't think it an excess of confidence to declare such a thing not to be true. At least, to the extent that anything at all is ever said to be true or not.
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Offline SpaceProg

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Re: Creationism does harm education
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2013, 04:32:52 pm »
Such things being what? Biology?

ID goes directly against one of the best-supported theories we have, is rejected by virtually every expert in its field, and the only reason it was even proposed in the first place was to defend a particular mythology. I don't think it an excess of confidence to declare such a thing not to be true. At least, to the extent that anything at all is ever said to be true or not.

I get what you mean now. 

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Creationism does harm education
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2013, 05:04:41 pm »
Alright then. Glad it could be cleared up.
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Offline SpaceProg

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Re: Creationism does harm education
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2013, 01:13:33 am »
I know my beliefs can never really be proven true.  That's where faith comes in.  Hey, look at the bright side, I may be one of those believer-type folks (at least in SOMETHING out there), but I'm not on the fundy fence.  I do not believe the earth was created in 7 literal days or stuff like that.  In fact, my beliefs are kind of complex that they'd require a lot of typing to explain and detail and I'm a very lazy person and can't be arsed.

I hope nobody thinks any less of me for that.   Maybe someday when I have the time and required arse surplus I may go into some detail.  Not to convert, just to explain some of the things that rattle around in my hollow head, hehe.

Offline Caitshidhe

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Re: Creationism does harm education
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2013, 09:20:05 am »
So long as you don't advocate the teaching, in science class, of things that you admit yourself can never be proven true, and calling them science, or insisting that they're more robust than the theory of evolution... that's totally cool. We're not gonna fight. Which is good, cos I fight like a girl. Speaking personally, as much as I disagree with all things religious, I don't really mind if you believe them so long as you don't try to pass them off as something they're not.
'The idea that things must have a beginning is really due to the poverty of our imaginations.' -- Bertrand Russel