Author Topic: Debate: Are The WBC Self-Aware?  (Read 12376 times)

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Offline The Lazy One

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Re: Debate: Are The WBC Self-Aware?
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2012, 05:34:07 pm »
I think the younger ones, the kids who were raised in it, probably do believe it, as well as Shirley Phelps, because every time I've seen her on television or heard her on the radio, she has that "I'm batshit insane but think I'm normal!" thing go on, but most of the "old guard?" They probably are in it for the money.

Offline Scotsgit

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Re: Debate: Are The WBC Self-Aware?
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2012, 06:35:47 pm »
I think the younger ones, the kids who were raised in it, probably do believe it, as well as Shirley Phelps, because every time I've seen her on television or heard her on the radio, she has that "I'm batshit insane but think I'm normal!" thing go on, but most of the "old guard?" They probably are in it for the money.

I'd say that's it, plus the older ones have drunk the Kool-Aid for so long that they can't hear anything else.  There's also ones like the lunatic 'journalist' who Louis Theroux met when he filmed the WBC:  The first time around Louis watched the guy buying into the WBC and its bullshit, the second time around the man was totally brainwashed by them.
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Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: Debate: Are The WBC Self-Aware?
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2012, 06:45:56 pm »
I think the cult leader, Fred Phelps, is just trying to make money. He gathered a cult of personality around his family, and they genuinely believe what he says. I think there's an interview done with a teenage girl who used to be a member of WBC growing up, and she left. IIRC she said that they all seem to genuinely believe what they preach.
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Offline Jack Mann

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Re: Debate: Are The WBC Self-Aware?
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2012, 09:53:13 pm »
I dunno.  Phelps strikes me as deranged enough to buy into the idea that he's the one righteous man, the only man God is willing to speak to.  For someone like him, someone who craves power over others and is frustrated by the world around him, that's a very appealing idea.  He's not a failure, he's a martyr.  He's justified in everything he does.  He's automatically in the right because he's doing God's work.  Everyone who opposes him will burn in hell for eternity, while he goes to heaven where he'll rule over his clan for eternity, laughing at those who had the gall to dismiss him.
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Offline Scotsgit

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Re: Debate: Are The WBC Self-Aware?
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2012, 10:32:15 pm »
The thing about the whole WBC is, though, it's built around Phelps senior.  So what happens when he gets old and, for instance, senility creeps in?  Are they going to end up like one of these small cults you hear of where there's about 3 of them left, ekeing out a precarious existence?  Or when he dies are they just going to up sticks and leave?
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Offline Smurfette Principle

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Re: Debate: Are The WBC Self-Aware?
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2012, 10:34:42 pm »
How many cases of people leaving the "church" are there?

Not a lot. Nate Phelps is the highest profile, though one grandchild left recently, I think. Those who've left have reported child abuse and brainwashing.

The thing about the whole WBC is, though, it's built around Phelps senior.  So what happens when he gets old and, for instance, senility creeps in?  Are they going to end up like one of these small cults you hear of where there's about 3 of them left, ekeing out a precarious existence?  Or when he dies are they just going to up sticks and leave?

Shirley is looking to be his successor. She has essentially taken over at this point, leading most of the protests and appearing on TV.

Offline N. De Plume

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Re: Debate: Are The WBC Self-Aware?
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2012, 10:48:44 pm »
How many cases of people leaving the "church" are there?

Not a lot. Nate Phelps is the highest profile, though one grandchild left recently, I think. Those who've left have reported child abuse and brainwashing.
So what is preventing these reports from leading to actual legal consequences?
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Offline Jack Mann

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Re: Debate: Are The WBC Self-Aware?
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2012, 11:13:54 pm »
How many cases of people leaving the "church" are there?

Not a lot. Nate Phelps is the highest profile, though one grandchild left recently, I think. Those who've left have reported child abuse and brainwashing.
So what is preventing these reports from leading to actual legal consequences?

Here's Nate Phelps's take on it.
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Offline Smurfette Principle

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Re: Debate: Are The WBC Self-Aware?
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2012, 11:22:23 pm »
How many cases of people leaving the "church" are there?

Not a lot. Nate Phelps is the highest profile, though one grandchild left recently, I think. Those who've left have reported child abuse and brainwashing.
So what is preventing these reports from leading to actual legal consequences?

Statute of limitations and the fact that the remaining Phelps children refuse to admit anything happened.

Offline Lithp

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Re: Debate: Are The WBC Self-Aware?
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2012, 11:39:26 pm »
Even if Shirley can keep up the charade, they can't hold the half-assed blob of insanity together forever.

Offline The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist

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Re: Debate: Are The WBC Self-Aware?
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2012, 12:00:51 am »
I suspect that it differs depending on the family member. I also doubt that it's as straightforward as any of the options given in the poll.

Some of them probably do believe it on the surface, while harbouring different motivations deep down (fear of being ostracized by the family and/or fear of facing any cognitive dissonance they might be experiencing, attention-whoring, sadism, etc.) -- ones which they might not even be consciously aware of holding. Others might genuinely believe, and still others could just be mean assholes, like the family patriarch.

As for Fred himself: The guy fits the bill for a cult leader to a T. He's intelligent, charismatic, antisocial and narcissistic. It's impossible to say whether or not he's bought into his own bullshit on the surface, but I've long held that his real motivations are attention, sadism, the ego-trip he gets from his family basically worshiping him, and money. He obviously gets off on hurting other people, and he's intelligent enough to have worked out a way of doing that without ending up on the wrong side of the law. Plus, he very likely realizes that emotional pain is a far more profound than any physical anguish he could inflict on someone. Long story short, the dude is a sadistic sociopath.

Seriously, read the "Addicted to Hate" article. It's an excellent portrait of Fred Phelps and the dynamic within his family.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 12:04:02 am by Mlle Antéchrist »
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Offline SkyTrekTower

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Re: Debate: Are The WBC Self-Aware?
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2012, 01:31:17 am »
I believe that the kids in the church cult do believe the stuff Fred Phelps says.  As for the adults, some also probably believe it, but I think others are just really conservative but not to the extent of Fred.  I also think they are a bunch of bastards who just want attention.

Do any of you think there are "churches" with similar beliefs to the WBC that don't attract attention?

Offline Scotsgit

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Re: Debate: Are The WBC Self-Aware?
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2012, 01:45:37 am »
How many cases of people leaving the "church" are there?

Not a lot. Nate Phelps is the highest profile, though one grandchild left recently, I think. Those who've left have reported child abuse and brainwashing.
So what is preventing these reports from leading to actual legal consequences?

Here's Nate Phelps's take on it.

For those that can't understand part of Dawkin's reaction, I should point out that the law in both Scotland and England has no statute of limitations:  It doesn't matter when you committed a crime, be it 1973 or 2003, when the Police catch up with the perp that's them going to trial.  Cases in the last few years have shown this, such as the World's End murders or the (and I loathe the term in this case) 'Bakewell Tart' murder.
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Offline Scotsgit

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Re: Debate: Are The WBC Self-Aware?
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2012, 01:46:24 am »
I believe that the kids in the church cult do believe the stuff Fred Phelps says.  As for the adults, some also probably believe it, but I think others are just really conservative but not to the extent of Fred.  I also think they are a bunch of bastards who just want attention.

Do any of you think there are "churches" with similar beliefs to the WBC that don't attract attention?

I thought that point of groups like that was to attract attention.
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Offline Jack Mann

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Re: Debate: Are The WBC Self-Aware?
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2012, 01:58:45 am »
How many cases of people leaving the "church" are there?

Not a lot. Nate Phelps is the highest profile, though one grandchild left recently, I think. Those who've left have reported child abuse and brainwashing.
So what is preventing these reports from leading to actual legal consequences?

Here's Nate Phelps's take on it.

For those that can't understand part of Dawkin's reaction, I should point out that the law in both Scotland and England has no statute of limitations:  It doesn't matter when you committed a crime, be it 1973 or 2003, when the Police catch up with the perp that's them going to trial.  Cases in the last few years have shown this, such as the World's End murders or the (and I loathe the term in this case) 'Bakewell Tart' murder.

There's no statute of limitations on murder in the US either.  The UK does have the Limitation Act of 1980, which limits the period of time before which charges must be brought for certain offenses, though it defines the offenses on which it applies more strictly than US jurisdictions tend to.
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