Author Topic: Gay Marriage Legal: Is Polygamy Next?  (Read 2307 times)

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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Gay Marriage Legal: Is Polygamy Next?
« on: August 07, 2015, 12:04:17 pm »
Some people are wondering if polygamy will be the next battleground when it comes to marriage equality.  Personally, I don't think so.  Leaving aside American social mores, there's a big difference from a legal standpoint.  With gay marriage, all you had to do was adapt existing laws to apply to same-sex couples.  On the other hand, polygamy would be a legal nightmare, because there are a lot of difficult questions.  Is everybody married to each other?  What happens in the event of divorce?  How is custody determined?  And what if one of the breadwinners dies?  Multiple marriages probably won't happen in my lifetime.

But what do you think?

Offline Ironchew

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Re: Gay Marriage Legal: Is Polygamy Next?
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2015, 01:24:05 pm »
Get ready to be conservatively shocked in a few decades, UP.

With gay marriage, all you had to do was adapt existing laws to apply to same-sex couples.  On the other hand, polygamy would be a legal nightmare, because there are a lot of difficult questions.  Is everybody married to each other?  What happens in the event of divorce?  How is custody determined?  And what if one of the breadwinners dies?

We have those laws already. They're used for corporations but you can tweak the wording to apply such contracts to multiple individuals incorporating into marriage. It's not that hard.

Personally I think states should be out of the business of defining marriage so that these restrictions don't keep popping up, but that won't happen until the unmarried population gets big enough that we leave the institution behind.
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Offline Canadian Mojo

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Re: Gay Marriage Legal: Is Polygamy Next?
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2015, 05:54:33 pm »
As far as I can tell there is no protected class that is being discriminated against by limiting marriage to two people. Bans on interracial and homosexual marriage crossed that line very blatantly which is why they were struck down. If polygamy proponents are unable to meet this bar they will find it very hard to make much direct progress via legal challenges.

Having said that, now that gay marriage is legal it should become much easier to draw up legal agreements that will be honored since stipulations made about same sex partners can't be ignored out of hand so easily any more. That means a husband and wife should have equal consideration when it came to issues of the third spousal member and if none are actually married in the eyes of the law it should default evenly between the two (or three). Odds are it won't, but a few legal challenges will probably sort the bulk of it out along long established contract law precedences.

What happens after that is anybody's guess.

Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: Gay Marriage Legal: Is Polygamy Next?
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2015, 06:14:04 pm »
I dare say the next war will be trans rights. I hope so.
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Offline Cataclysm

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Re: Gay Marriage Legal: Is Polygamy Next?
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2015, 04:21:11 pm »
What about incest? That involves 2 consenting adults, so it is a better parallel to Gay marriage.

Plus many of people who opposed gay marriage would be all for it anyhow, so there's less resistance.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: Gay Marriage Legal: Is Polygamy Next?
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2015, 04:52:10 pm »
See my jaw would normally be on the floor after something like that but then I saw who posted it.

Ironbite-and chuckled.

Offline Ironchew

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Re: Gay Marriage Legal: Is Polygamy Next?
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2015, 05:10:05 pm »
As far as I can tell there is no protected class that is being discriminated against by limiting marriage to two people.

The gay marriage opponents raised a similar point a while back. It was something along the lines of, "We're not discriminating against gay people! They have as much of a right as anyone else to marry a spouse of the opposite sex."

Saying that polygamous partners have just as much of a right as anyone else to restrict their marriage to, at most, serial monogamy is likewise duplicitous.

What about incest? That involves 2 consenting adults, so it is a better parallel to Gay marriage.

Two consenting adults that happen to be closely related can already marry. That's not an issue.
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Offline Canadian Mojo

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Re: Gay Marriage Legal: Is Polygamy Next?
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2015, 07:39:53 pm »
As far as I can tell there is no protected class that is being discriminated against by limiting marriage to two people.

The gay marriage opponents raised a similar point a while back. It was something along the lines of, "We're not discriminating against gay people! They have as much of a right as anyone else to marry a spouse of the opposite sex."

Saying that polygamous partners have just as much of a right as anyone else to restrict their marriage to, at most, serial monogamy is likewise duplicitous.

It's not duplicitous if marriage is in fact strictly the union of two people; it's simply the definition -- just like a minor is anyone under 18 and a senior is anyone over 65. It does not discriminate against race or orientation. It might be possible to argue that it does discriminate against religions affiliation, but I would assume that the Mormons have already tried that and lost so maybe it is legally bullet proof on those grounds too.

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Gay Marriage Legal: Is Polygamy Next?
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2015, 08:23:31 pm »
What about incest? That involves 2 consenting adults, so it is a better parallel to Gay marriage.

Two consenting adults that happen to be closely related can already marry. That's not an issue.

Not true.
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Offline Ironchew

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Re: Gay Marriage Legal: Is Polygamy Next?
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2015, 09:04:30 pm »
What about incest? That involves 2 consenting adults, so it is a better parallel to Gay marriage.

Two consenting adults that happen to be closely related can already marry. That's not an issue.

Not true.

It's as if they think marriage is only about having kids and that preventing marriage will stop consenting adults from having kids...

As far as I can tell there is no protected class that is being discriminated against by limiting marriage to two people.

The gay marriage opponents raised a similar point a while back. It was something along the lines of, "We're not discriminating against gay people! They have as much of a right as anyone else to marry a spouse of the opposite sex."

Saying that polygamous partners have just as much of a right as anyone else to restrict their marriage to, at most, serial monogamy is likewise duplicitous.

It's not duplicitous if marriage is in fact strictly the union of two people; it's simply the definition

The definition of marriage in several states used to be the union of a man and a woman. Just because a restriction is to the letter doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 09:08:05 pm by Ironchew »
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Offline niam2023

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Re: Gay Marriage Legal: Is Polygamy Next?
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2015, 09:19:50 pm »
Personally, if Jaime and Cersei love each other and consent to the relationship, why should they be barred from partaking in sex, even if they're relate----



Oh.
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Offline Canadian Mojo

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Re: Gay Marriage Legal: Is Polygamy Next?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2015, 09:28:18 pm »
What about incest? That involves 2 consenting adults, so it is a better parallel to Gay marriage.

Two consenting adults that happen to be closely related can already marry. That's not an issue.

Not true.

It's as if they think marriage is only about having kids and that preventing marriage will stop consenting adults from having kids...

As far as I can tell there is no protected class that is being discriminated against by limiting marriage to two people.

The gay marriage opponents raised a similar point a while back. It was something along the lines of, "We're not discriminating against gay people! They have as much of a right as anyone else to marry a spouse of the opposite sex."

Saying that polygamous partners have just as much of a right as anyone else to restrict their marriage to, at most, serial monogamy is likewise duplicitous.

It's not duplicitous if marriage is in fact strictly the union of two people; it's simply the definition

The definition of marriage in several states used to be the union of a man and a woman. Just because a restriction is to the letter doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
In this case it means it is the legal and constitutional thing to do. You need to figure an end-run around that little problem first.

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Gay Marriage Legal: Is Polygamy Next?
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2015, 10:54:55 pm »
Personally, if Jaime and Cersei love each other and consent to the relationship, why should they be barred from partaking in sex, even if they're relate----



Oh.

Oh come on, the Targaryens where incesting way before the Lannisters and their dynasty had such great kings as Maegor the Cruel, Aegon the Unworthy and Aerys the Mad.
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Offline Ironchew

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Re: Gay Marriage Legal: Is Polygamy Next?
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2015, 11:22:50 pm »
Jaime and Cersei beat the odds. 2 out of 3 sane kids isn't that bad.

And that's considering one parent is mildly insane herself.
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Offline R. U. Sirius

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Re: Gay Marriage Legal: Is Polygamy Next?
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2015, 01:23:51 am »
There's actually a fan theory that none of the current Lannister flock are actually Lannisters. In the books, it's strongly implied that the Targaryens would regularly consort with the wives of their nobles, and Jaime, Cersei and Tyrion are described as having platinum hair, only a few shades darker than the Targaryen white. Add in the mental instabilities, propensity for incest and some remarks Tywin makes to Tyrion about not being able to prove that Tywin isn't the father, and it starts to look like not a one of Tywin Lannister's kids might be his own.

This would also explain why Cersei and Jaime are relatively normal aside from the paranoia (which is also attributable to their environment) and incest, while Joffrey got hit with the insanity stick so bad...an infusion of fresh blood diluted the genetic causes of their mental issues, but going right back to family lovin' compounded them again. It's likely that their other children will start manifesting similar symptoms as they grow older.
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