Author Topic: Take the Pledge, the Millennial Pledge  (Read 13957 times)

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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Take the Pledge, the Millennial Pledge
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2015, 01:46:50 pm »
Filthy hippie turned old asswipe?  I can see it happening.
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Offline Barbarella

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Re: Take the Pledge, the Millennial Pledge
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2015, 02:16:00 pm »
Filthy hippie turned old asswipe?  I can see it happening.

Shame really. Noting gets me down than a young idealistic rebel becoming the thing they hate.

That said, I think some kids became hippies out of simple youthful rebellion rather than a genuine sociology-political-idealogical-humanistic conviction. I'd imaging it was mostly them who became the bitter fogies, yuppies & wingnut politicians. The others who were genuine probably just toned it down as they got older, became more moderate or more mainstream while still retaining the spirit.

Offline nickiknack

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Re: Take the Pledge, the Millennial Pledge
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2015, 02:17:32 pm »
Hippie turned asswipe seems to be the case more often than not.
Also if it's anything that annoys me about the Baby Boomers is that they got the nice things from the gov't but they decided to piss it away by voting in favor of privatization, and they get pissed at us for daring to complain and actually wanting some social democracy like they enjoyed in their youth.
That being said, I'm hoping I keep up the tend of being liberal most of my life, I seem to have got more liberal than I was when I was 18. I've told friends I want them to beat the shit out of me if I ever go conservative. I've seen sane family members go borderline wingnut, and it's not pretty.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 02:26:46 pm by nickiknack »

Offline dpareja

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Re: Take the Pledge, the Millennial Pledge
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2015, 03:44:58 pm »
Hippie turned asswipe seems to be the case more often than not.
Also if it's anything that annoys me about the Baby Boomers is that they got the nice things from the gov't but they decided to piss it away by voting in favor of privatization, and they get pissed at us for daring to complain and actually wanting some social democracy like they enjoyed in their youth.
That being said, I'm hoping I keep up the tend of being liberal most of my life, I seem to have got more liberal than I was when I was 18. I've told friends I want them to beat the shit out of me if I ever go conservative. I've seen sane family members go borderline wingnut, and it's not pretty.

Reminds me a bit of this cartoon:

Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

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Offline guizonde

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Re: Take the Pledge, the Millennial Pledge
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2015, 04:01:12 pm »
Filthy hippie turned old asswipe?  I can see it happening.

Shame really. Noting gets me down than a young idealistic rebel becoming the thing they hate.

That said, I think some kids became hippies out of simple youthful rebellion rather than a genuine sociology-political-idealogical-humanistic conviction. I'd imaging it was mostly them who became the bitter fogies, yuppies & wingnut politicians. The others who were genuine probably just toned it down as they got older, became more moderate or more mainstream while still retaining the spirit.

frankly, most people i see who call themselves hippies or alter-globalists (hugely popular in liberal french universities) do it because it's a fad. "spirit of may '68" and all that. i've never been part of the movement because they're parroting decade-old ideals that simply do not work (ie, true communism due to the fact that humans are generally more selfish than altruist) or are unsustainable right now (like going green and shutting down nuclear plants).

in theory, it's cool. i mean, who wouldn't want a world that's attuned to nature and everyone loves everyone else? but in practice, most of those neo-hippies are in it for the ganja and the patchouli. spouting pipe-dreams like truths set in stone. they decredibilize their own movement by their own hypocrisy: buying brands that made their image on the principle of "fuck the system".

they wear garish colors and multicultural clothing to set themselves apart from the everyman. "jeans are a product of child-labor!" yeah, but so's that sirwal you're wearing. that hash you're smoking? not grown locally, you're giving your money to drug lords. eating organic? cute. your bananas imported from brazil have a bigger carbon footprint than this apple that grew in yonder orchard. voting for the alter-globalist candidate in the next election? what's the point? every sunday he's out with the rest of the political class sharing a table at the fouquet's. jean-luc mélenchon and marine le pen are buddies outside the political arena. you want the change that your elders didn't manage to get? then change your tactics.

the only hippies i know are old-school hippies that either gamed the system and now live in autarcy somewhere in aveyron (once they saved up to buy a plot of fertile land) or conformed the least amount possible to still live a happy life. they live happily, but they know that you can't win on a large scale. they reduce the scale of victory and enjoy life to the fullest in accordance to their principles.

the neo-hippies, once they leave the university conform to their arch-enemy: "it's the society, man!"

last time i had the displeasure of talking to one, they called me a fascist for not playing to their rules. nevermind that that's not what fascism means, i threw a logic-bomb their way. they're white, and western european purebreds. they have dreadlocks, sandals, sirwals, patchouli, hindu jewelry, and smoke hash. if that's not cultural appropriation, i don't know what is. i got called names for that one.

to be clear. i have no beef with tokers or with hippies. hell, most of my friends are the former, and their parents are the latter. i have a beef with a kid that's middle-upper-class trying to pass off as if they're working class neo-hippies just doing it to get girls and an excuse to hit a blunt. that's not what being a hippy is about. they're posers decredibilizing an already ailing community. and don't even get me started on how patronizing they sound "you're just a sheep", they say. "you've never been downtrodden". "you're too priviledged." as if leading a cruddy life was a sign of sainthood, they parrot ideals like holy gospel, failing to understand, nay, analyze exactly what they're saying. they see their world in a binary, black-or-white way. i live in the shades of grey. i've got my principles, i live hurting the planet the least amount possible, and i game the system as much as possible without hurting others.

... goddammit, they turned me into a bitter hippy.
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Offline Barbarella

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Re: Take the Pledge, the Millennial Pledge
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2015, 09:28:35 pm »
Filthy hippie turned old asswipe?  I can see it happening.

Shame really. Noting gets me down than a young idealistic rebel becoming the thing they hate.

That said, I think some kids became hippies out of simple youthful rebellion rather than a genuine sociology-political-idealogical-humanistic conviction. I'd imaging it was mostly them who became the bitter fogies, yuppies & wingnut politicians. The others who were genuine probably just toned it down as they got older, became more moderate or more mainstream while still retaining the spirit.

frankly, most people i see who call themselves hippies or alter-globalists (hugely popular in liberal french universities) do it because it's a fad. "spirit of may '68" and all that. i've never been part of the movement because they're parroting decade-old ideals that simply do not work (ie, true communism due to the fact that humans are generally more selfish than altruist) or are unsustainable right now (like going green and shutting down nuclear plants).

in theory, it's cool. i mean, who wouldn't want a world that's attuned to nature and everyone loves everyone else? but in practice, most of those neo-hippies are in it for the ganja and the patchouli. spouting pipe-dreams like truths set in stone. they decredibilize their own movement by their own hypocrisy: buying brands that made their image on the principle of "fuck the system".

they wear garish colors and multicultural clothing to set themselves apart from the everyman. "jeans are a product of child-labor!" yeah, but so's that sirwal you're wearing. that hash you're smoking? not grown locally, you're giving your money to drug lords. eating organic? cute. your bananas imported from brazil have a bigger carbon footprint than this apple that grew in yonder orchard. voting for the alter-globalist candidate in the next election? what's the point? every sunday he's out with the rest of the political class sharing a table at the fouquet's. jean-luc mélenchon and marine le pen are buddies outside the political arena. you want the change that your elders didn't manage to get? then change your tactics.

the only hippies i know are old-school hippies that either gamed the system and now live in autarcy somewhere in aveyron (once they saved up to buy a plot of fertile land) or conformed the least amount possible to still live a happy life. they live happily, but they know that you can't win on a large scale. they reduce the scale of victory and enjoy life to the fullest in accordance to their principles.

the neo-hippies, once they leave the university conform to their arch-enemy: "it's the society, man!"

last time i had the displeasure of talking to one, they called me a fascist for not playing to their rules. nevermind that that's not what fascism means, i threw a logic-bomb their way. they're white, and western european purebreds. they have dreadlocks, sandals, sirwals, patchouli, hindu jewelry, and smoke hash. if that's not cultural appropriation, i don't know what is. i got called names for that one.

to be clear. i have no beef with tokers or with hippies. hell, most of my friends are the former, and their parents are the latter. i have a beef with a kid that's middle-upper-class trying to pass off as if they're working class neo-hippies just doing it to get girls and an excuse to hit a blunt. that's not what being a hippy is about. they're posers decredibilizing an already ailing community. and don't even get me started on how patronizing they sound "you're just a sheep", they say. "you've never been downtrodden". "you're too priviledged." as if leading a cruddy life was a sign of sainthood, they parrot ideals like holy gospel, failing to understand, nay, analyze exactly what they're saying. they see their world in a binary, black-or-white way. i live in the shades of grey. i've got my principles, i live hurting the planet the least amount possible, and i game the system as much as possible without hurting others.

... goddammit, they turned me into a bitter hippy.


I get what you're saying. Truer words were never spoken.

I love Flowerpower but I agree that some stuff is pie in the sky for the moment and you have to take baby-steps to change humanity. You have to be pragmatic and find a balance.
The problem with the Flowerkids was that they want their utopia NOW NOW NOW and they don't understand that it would take many years of gradual change to achieve their world.
It's better to adapt your ideals to what's possible, now. Change what CAN be changed now and be realistic. If you're TOO idealistic, you're setting yourself up for a big bummer.

That's why I'm a Realist-Idealist. I know there's limits. I know you can't always get what you want and that much of humanity is more "chimp" than "bonobo". I'm of the attitude of "Humanity Is Flawed" and that both the Humanist & Misanthrope/Rousseau & Hobbes can be correct in their own way. Every human is capable of being the highest of the animals or the lowest of the animals. Most humans are mostly decent but we're a mixed bag.

However, I feel that humanity has the potential to be the Bonobo/Rousseau/Humanist person. We can subdue our more malevolent aspects if we try.

I'm all for green energy and reduce/reuse/recycle. I also think buying second-hand & DIY is a good idea. You really shouldn't knock that.

However, I know that some things are unavoidable. You still need a job and you still have to deal with the real world.

Offline guizonde

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Re: Take the Pledge, the Millennial Pledge
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2015, 10:06:21 pm »
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I get what you're saying. Truer words were never spoken.

I love Flowerpower but I agree that some stuff is pie in the sky for the moment and you have to take baby-steps to change humanity. You have to be pragmatic and find a balance.
The problem with the Flowerkids was that they want their utopia NOW NOW NOW and they don't understand that it would take many years of gradual change to achieve their world.
It's better to adapt your ideals to what's possible, now. Change what CAN be changed now and be realistic. If you're TOO idealistic, you're setting yourself up for a big bummer.

That's why I'm a Realist-Idealist. I know there's limits. I know you can't always get what you want and that much of humanity is more "chimp" than "bonobo". I'm of the attitude of "Humanity Is Flawed" and that both the Humanist & Misanthrope/Rousseau & Hobbes can be correct in their own way. Every human is capable of being the highest of the animals or the lowest of the animals. Most humans are mostly decent but we're a mixed bag.

However, I feel that humanity has the potential to be the Bonobo/Rousseau/Humanist person. We can subdue our more malevolent aspects if we try.

I'm all for green energy and reduce/reuse/recycle. I also think buying second-hand & DIY is a good idea. You really shouldn't knock that.

However, I know that some things are unavoidable. You still need a job and you still have to deal with the real world.

i'm pretty cynical and overly critical of myself first (and others if they make a big enough mess). you have to see progress as evolution: trial and error leading to something better. when you see humanity as "harmful unless proven otherwise", things get grim. but i can't help myself. we should all strive to be better, and i do my part in my life before doing something bigger, but let's face it. that would require a conscious effort and most people are lazy.

i'm for green energy and recycling, i'm too poor to buy most things brand-new, and i'm pretty crafty with my hands. i'm not knocking by a long shot. however, look at the current "green vs nuclear" debate. on the one hand, you've got a power generated that is equal to x (due to nuclear plants). it's barely enough to sustain the country. green energy accounts for a fraction of that. you need to build aeolians and dams and solar panels to make up for that missing amount of energy. alter-globalists claim "no nuclear, right now!". if that happens, you're dooming your country to lack power. that's what happened in germany, where the green lobby managed to get the plants shutdown waaaaaaaaaaay too quickly. now, the germans are either buying power from france and scandinavia or coal from the uk. yes, that's crazy. what should be done before going green is to make sure you've got the infrastructure to make up for the lost power generation.

bretagne is very windy, and we've got the tech to make offshore windfarms. the french green party (of "stop the plants right now" mentality) torpedoed the idea because "it's ugly, and we want a pretty coast". i'm sadly not making this up. dams are hard to pull off, and solar panels are still in their infancy (plus are dependant on latitude and weather). as of right now, we could not go green even if we wanted to. we don't have the infrastructure (and lobbyists torpedo projects based on aesthetics).

recycling works fine, and the french are better at it than most, having the infrastructure to facilitate it (whaddaya mean we stole it from the germans? never!) most plastics in france are recycled, so's paper, and that's good. the problem with buying second-hand in france is that most big-city shops are "vintage" styled shops for the hipster crowd, so things can get crazy-pricey quick. i buy my gear at military surplus stores or a few thrift stores, sewing it back together on occasion. i'm just happy that my medical fees are pretty much nonexistant due to healthcare, else it would sink me. i've got about a hundred to a hundred fifty euros worth of treatment and counselling and appointments a month. it costs me eight euros.

like i said, you game the system as much as your morals allow you to in accordance to your beliefs. i try and make the least splash possible while doing the most i can. but i work alone, i don't want anybody else following me out of anything but a sense of duty. if i grow old, i'll be that recluse living in the woods playing the blues, in the valley next door to the hippies. growing my food, and sharing my table with hikers and friends in exchange for good times.
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Offline I am lizard

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Re: Take the Pledge, the Millennial Pledge
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2015, 11:11:16 pm »
Filthy hippie turned old asswipe?  I can see it happening.

Shame really. Noting gets me down than a young idealistic rebel becoming the thing they hate.

That said, I think some kids became hippies out of simple youthful rebellion rather than a genuine sociology-political-idealogical-humanistic conviction. I'd imaging it was mostly them who became the bitter fogies, yuppies & wingnut politicians. The others who were genuine probably just toned it down as they got older, became more moderate or more mainstream while still retaining the spirit.

frankly, most people i see who call themselves hippies or alter-globalists (hugely popular in liberal french universities) do it because it's a fad. "spirit of may '68" and all that. i've never been part of the movement because they're parroting decade-old ideals that simply do not work (ie, true communism due to the fact that humans are generally more selfish than altruist) or are unsustainable right now (like going green and shutting down nuclear plants).

in theory, it's cool. i mean, who wouldn't want a world that's attuned to nature and everyone loves everyone else? but in practice, most of those neo-hippies are in it for the ganja and the patchouli. spouting pipe-dreams like truths set in stone. they decredibilize their own movement by their own hypocrisy: buying brands that made their image on the principle of "fuck the system".

they wear garish colors and multicultural clothing to set themselves apart from the everyman. "jeans are a product of child-labor!" yeah, but so's that sirwal you're wearing. that hash you're smoking? not grown locally, you're giving your money to drug lords. eating organic? cute. your bananas imported from brazil have a bigger carbon footprint than this apple that grew in yonder orchard. voting for the alter-globalist candidate in the next election? what's the point? every sunday he's out with the rest of the political class sharing a table at the fouquet's. jean-luc mélenchon and marine le pen are buddies outside the political arena. you want the change that your elders didn't manage to get? then change your tactics.

the only hippies i know are old-school hippies that either gamed the system and now live in autarcy somewhere in aveyron (once they saved up to buy a plot of fertile land) or conformed the least amount possible to still live a happy life. they live happily, but they know that you can't win on a large scale. they reduce the scale of victory and enjoy life to the fullest in accordance to their principles.

the neo-hippies, once they leave the university conform to their arch-enemy: "it's the society, man!"

last time i had the displeasure of talking to one, they called me a fascist for not playing to their rules. nevermind that that's not what fascism means, i threw a logic-bomb their way. they're white, and western european purebreds. they have dreadlocks, sandals, sirwals, patchouli, hindu jewelry, and smoke hash. if that's not cultural appropriation, i don't know what is. i got called names for that one.

to be clear. i have no beef with tokers or with hippies. hell, most of my friends are the former, and their parents are the latter. i have a beef with a kid that's middle-upper-class trying to pass off as if they're working class neo-hippies just doing it to get girls and an excuse to hit a blunt. that's not what being a hippy is about. they're posers decredibilizing an already ailing community. and don't even get me started on how patronizing they sound "you're just a sheep", they say. "you've never been downtrodden". "you're too priviledged." as if leading a cruddy life was a sign of sainthood, they parrot ideals like holy gospel, failing to understand, nay, analyze exactly what they're saying. they see their world in a binary, black-or-white way. i live in the shades of grey. i've got my principles, i live hurting the planet the least amount possible, and i game the system as much as possible without hurting others.

... goddammit, they turned me into a bitter hippy.
Phil Ochs wrote a song about that kind of person
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Take the Pledge, the Millennial Pledge
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2015, 12:27:47 am »
Thing is, though...nuclear plants are likely a hell of a lot greener than most of the shit we use, since most of the other garbage is either coal, petrol, or natural gas.  The big problem is that hippies actually managed to effect change and scare people, important people, into believing that every nuclear reactor is just one big Chernobyl waiting for one spilled coffee to annihilate a city, which has been bullshit for at least as long as I've been alive.  Nuclear reactors are pretty fucking safe, look at Fukushima Daiichi.  Yeah, it was still pretty serious, but nowhere NEAR as devastating as it could've been, because the reactor was built properly.  Besides, fast breeder reactors can help increase the lifetime of fuel, decreasing the amount of spent fuel we have to bury until fusion comes along.  Nuclear power would have been the future, and it likely would've been a near-death blow for the big oil fucks currently screwing us over, but the hippies heard a few bits of scaremongering bullshit and, suddenly, the power of the future is now this terrible, evil thing we must avoid at all costs.  Sorry, but I'll take a higher-power, well-built nuke plant over a dozen smog-belching shit factories any day.  Fuck coal, go nuclear.  Again, at least until we can lick the problems we're having with fusion power.  Then, fuck coal, go fusion.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Take the Pledge, the Millennial Pledge
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2015, 12:49:20 am »
Thing is, though...nuclear plants are likely a hell of a lot greener than most of the shit we use, since most of the other garbage is either coal, petrol, or natural gas.  The big problem is that hippies actually managed to effect change and scare people, important people, into believing that every nuclear reactor is just one big Chernobyl waiting for one spilled coffee to annihilate a city, which has been bullshit for at least as long as I've been alive.  Nuclear reactors are pretty fucking safe, look at Fukushima Daiichi.  Yeah, it was still pretty serious, but nowhere NEAR as devastating as it could've been, because the reactor was built properly.  Besides, fast breeder reactors can help increase the lifetime of fuel, decreasing the amount of spent fuel we have to bury until fusion comes along.  Nuclear power would have been the future, and it likely would've been a near-death blow for the big oil fucks currently screwing us over, but the hippies heard a few bits of scaremongering bullshit and, suddenly, the power of the future is now this terrible, evil thing we must avoid at all costs.  Sorry, but I'll take a higher-power, well-built nuke plant over a dozen smog-belching shit factories any day.  Fuck coal, go nuclear.  Again, at least until we can lick the problems we're having with fusion power.  Then, fuck coal, go fusion.

If you can, go hydro.

Also, completely-not-at-all-cost-effective idea I'm shamelessly ripping off of David Weber: shoot the depleted fuel into the sun.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

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Re: Take the Pledge, the Millennial Pledge
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2015, 01:18:23 am »
Thing is, though...nuclear plants are likely a hell of a lot greener than most of the shit we use, since most of the other garbage is either coal, petrol, or natural gas.  The big problem is that hippies actually managed to effect change and scare people, important people, into believing that every nuclear reactor is just one big Chernobyl waiting for one spilled coffee to annihilate a city, which has been bullshit for at least as long as I've been alive.  Nuclear reactors are pretty fucking safe, look at Fukushima Daiichi.  Yeah, it was still pretty serious, but nowhere NEAR as devastating as it could've been, because the reactor was built properly.  Besides, fast breeder reactors can help increase the lifetime of fuel, decreasing the amount of spent fuel we have to bury until fusion comes along.  Nuclear power would have been the future, and it likely would've been a near-death blow for the big oil fucks currently screwing us over, but the hippies heard a few bits of scaremongering bullshit and, suddenly, the power of the future is now this terrible, evil thing we must avoid at all costs.  Sorry, but I'll take a higher-power, well-built nuke plant over a dozen smog-belching shit factories any day.  Fuck coal, go nuclear.  Again, at least until we can lick the problems we're having with fusion power.  Then, fuck coal, go fusion.

If you can, go hydro.

Also, completely-not-at-all-cost-effective idea I'm shamelessly ripping off of David Weber: shoot the depleted fuel into the sun.


Or better yet, solar heat. Just plonk it down somewhere sunny and rake in the power. No need to dam a major river and fuck up the local environment (albeit temporarily).

Offline Askold

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Re: Take the Pledge, the Millennial Pledge
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2015, 01:38:02 am »
Damning rivers is a problem and can damage the ecosystem. Salmon's for example have trouble going up river past a damn even though these days companies build bypasses for them.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline dpareja

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Re: Take the Pledge, the Millennial Pledge
« Reply #42 on: October 14, 2015, 02:25:24 am »
Damning rivers is a problem and can damage the ecosystem. Salmon's for example have trouble going up river past a damn even though these days companies build bypasses for them.

Sure, hydro's not perfect, but I personally think it's better than coal, at least.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Askold

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Re: Take the Pledge, the Millennial Pledge
« Reply #43 on: October 14, 2015, 03:23:22 am »
Damning rivers is a problem and can damage the ecosystem. Salmon's for example have trouble going up river past a damn even though these days companies build bypasses for them.

Sure, hydro's not perfect, but I personally think it's better than coal, at least.


Almost anything is better than coal.

Solar power has been getting much better than what was assumed and we are reaching the power levels that were thought to be achieved only 15 years from now. The only thing holding back solar power is the lack of desire to make more solar generators.

Wind turbines are also decent. The main problems are:

a) NIMBY problem where people don't want them anywhere nearby because they are "ugly"
b) Danger to wildlife
c) Possible health concerns (which might be just paranoia)
d) Wind turbines are expensive and at least the older ones have to be retired pretty soon after they've paid back the investment. But my info is 10 years old so things may have changed by now.

Coastal tide and wave generators are nice though and I still love the Finnish design that also works as an artificial reef for the fish.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline guizonde

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Re: Take the Pledge, the Millennial Pledge
« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2015, 07:39:53 am »
c) Possible health concerns (which might be just paranoia)

that reminds me about a family i talked to in my university, claiming they were electrosensitive and had to move away from an electrical transformer because it hurt them. apparently, electrosensitivity is a sensitivity to magnetic fields and electrical fields. turns out that during our talk, we were never less than fifty feet from a wifi box, and we were standing under a power line. i just wrote it up to another "technology is harmful" woo, without going into luddism.

sure, big electrical fields can fuck you six ways to sunday, but latent fields like they were hurting them can't. it's like people who say microwaves will give you cancer. no, they can't. good ones are built to avoid that. were they talking about emp's or tesla coils, sure, i'd get it. but wifi routers cannot do anything more to you than a hot cup of coffee can.

also, rayvy, you're right. that's why i'm pro-nuclear, at least until we can fix the kinks in green energy. dams cost at the minimum five billion euros and take years to build. askold pointed out better than i did the "problems" of wind turbines. and once again, solar plants are dependant on the climate. we've got a ways to go, but perhaps in twenty years we might be getting there.
@ guizonde: I think I like the way you think.
Warning: Biohazardously Awesome


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