Author Topic: When, if ever, did the Catholic Church cross the moral event horizon?  (Read 395 times)

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Offline dpareja

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So I just found this story from about two and a half months ago:

http://www.neonnettle.com/features/891-pedophile-priest-with-hiv-who-raped-30-children-forgiven-by-church

An HIV-positive priest raped almost 30 girls between the ages of 5 and 10, was forgiven by the Church, and will face no criminal charges.

Not only that, but when one of the girls' mothers asked to meet with the Pope about the matter, she was rebuffed.

So this, if nothing else, was where the Church crossed the line from evil to irredeemably evil (you don't let someone who probably sentenced over two dozen kids to an early grave walk free!) for me, but I'm wondering what the rest of you think.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

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The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

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Offline Eiki-mun

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I'm thinking that I'm wondering if this article is even true.

If this actually did happen, you'd think that someone in the mainstream news media would pick up on it. I can't even find any mainstream Mexican newspapers who picked up on it - I mean, this seems like a pretty major thing to only show up in a few pieces of news media. In addition, the source on this apparently is Anonymous Mexico*, which really is hardly a reliable source, and according to the Archdiocese of Mexico itself**, no priest by that name even exists in their records, much less having been let off for such a terrible spree of crimes. While you can dispute that source as well, I can at least look up the name of the spokesman and confirm he exists - he does, by the way. The lack of any mainstream media support on this as well as its sketchy lack of good sources (I'm sorry, but I'm not going to trust Anonymous Mexico as a sole source) leads me to believe that it is fake news.


*: http://www.anonymousmx.com/2016/09/iglesia-catolica-absuelve-y-deja-en.html
**: " “This supposed priest does not belong to the Archdiocese of Mexico – as Anonymous Mexico asserts – much less has he been let off, as the post irresponsibly and maliciously states,” stated Fr. Hugo Valdemar Romero, a spokesman for the Archdiocese of Mexico." -- http://angelusnews.com/articles/does-the-mexican-priest-who-allegedly-abused-minors-even-exist
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Offline dpareja

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Nonetheless, we do know that there has been plenty of child rape in the Catholic Church, with the priests moved around to avoid legal punishment and the stories hushed up until the statutes of limitations ran out. (When he was head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Ratzinger ordered that such matters be kept in the Church and that secular authorities not be informed.)

So whether this is true or not, I still think the Church has crossed the moral event horizon.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

Quote
Be weird, cause normal is boring.

Offline Eiki-mun

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Nonetheless, we do know that there has been plenty of child rape in the Catholic Church, with the priests moved around to avoid legal punishment and the stories hushed up until the statutes of limitations ran out. (When he was head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Ratzinger ordered that such matters be kept in the Church and that secular authorities not be informed.)

So whether this is true or not, I still think the Church has crossed the moral event horizon.

That's up to you, I'm not going to try to sway you one way or another, since I'm not the best informed on Catholic Church issues. But I am going to call out things that look fake when I see them.
There is no plague more evil and vile to watch spread than the plague that is the Von Habsburg dynasty.

Offline dpareja

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Nonetheless, we do know that there has been plenty of child rape in the Catholic Church, with the priests moved around to avoid legal punishment and the stories hushed up until the statutes of limitations ran out. (When he was head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Ratzinger ordered that such matters be kept in the Church and that secular authorities not be informed.)

So whether this is true or not, I still think the Church has crossed the moral event horizon.

That's up to you, I'm not going to try to sway you one way or another, since I'm not the best informed on Catholic Church issues. But I am going to call out things that look fake when I see them.

Fair enough.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

Quote
Be weird, cause normal is boring.

Offline Bob J.

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You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ―Obi-Wan Kenobi

Offline SCarpelan

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at the Friendly Atheist from 10 months ago:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/09/22/the-catholic-church-acquitted-an-hiv-infected-priest-who-raped-30-girls-say-gullible-websites/
Um... The whole point in the blog post is that the story is an unconfirmed hit piece by unreliable sources and there is no evidence father José Ataulfo even exists. The point with him debunking this story is to prevent it from polluting the factual criticism of Catholic church.

Offline dpareja

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at the Friendly Atheist from 10 months ago:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/09/22/the-catholic-church-acquitted-an-hiv-infected-priest-who-raped-30-girls-say-gullible-websites/
Um... The whole point in the blog post is that the story is an unconfirmed hit piece by unreliable sources and there is no evidence father José Ataulfo even exists. The point with him debunking this story is to prevent it from polluting the factual criticism of Catholic church.

Such as (for instance) Cardinal George Pell possibly having molested some young boys. (He's the third-highest person in the Church.)
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

Quote
Be weird, cause normal is boring.

Offline Bob J.

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at the Friendly Atheist from 10 months ago:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/09/22/the-catholic-church-acquitted-an-hiv-infected-priest-who-raped-30-girls-say-gullible-websites/
Um... The whole point in the blog post is that the story is an unconfirmed hit piece by unreliable sources and there is no evidence father José Ataulfo even exists. The point with him debunking this story is to prevent it from polluting the factual criticism of Catholic church.

And this thread starts off by continuing to propagate that year-old unconfirmed hit piece.
You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ―Obi-Wan Kenobi

Offline dpareja

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at the Friendly Atheist from 10 months ago:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/09/22/the-catholic-church-acquitted-an-hiv-infected-priest-who-raped-30-girls-say-gullible-websites/
Um... The whole point in the blog post is that the story is an unconfirmed hit piece by unreliable sources and there is no evidence father José Ataulfo even exists. The point with him debunking this story is to prevent it from polluting the factual criticism of Catholic church.

And this thread starts off by continuing to propagate that year-old unconfirmed hit piece.

Mea culpa--in fact, the piece is outright false, and I should have checked some more.

But that doesn't change the cases of Carlos Urrutigoity, Josef Wesolowski, Bernard Law, Roger Mahony, John Nienstedt, Lee Piche, George Pell, and any number of other members of the Catholic clergy who have committed pedophilia, are accused of pedophilia, or who helped cover up or obstruct civil investigations into pedophilia. Justice is finally being served in some of those cases, but none of it should ever have happened in the first place, and the fact that it did only makes me think that the sooner the Catholic Church (and all religions, really) lose all influence they have over secular society, the better.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

Quote
Be weird, cause normal is boring.

pyro

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Re: When, if ever, did the Catholic Church cross the moral event horizon?
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2017, 02:48:14 pm »
Except for all the secular cover-ups.

Offline dpareja

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Re: When, if ever, did the Catholic Church cross the moral event horizon?
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2017, 02:55:34 pm »
Except for all the secular cover-ups.

It would still be progress.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

Quote
Be weird, cause normal is boring.

Offline SCarpelan

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Re: When, if ever, did the Catholic Church cross the moral event horizon?
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2017, 06:35:05 pm »
at the Friendly Atheist from 10 months ago:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/09/22/the-catholic-church-acquitted-an-hiv-infected-priest-who-raped-30-girls-say-gullible-websites/
Um... The whole point in the blog post is that the story is an unconfirmed hit piece by unreliable sources and there is no evidence father José Ataulfo even exists. The point with him debunking this story is to prevent it from polluting the factual criticism of Catholic church.

And this thread starts off by continuing to propagate that year-old unconfirmed hit piece.
Sorry. I thought this was an old thread.

Offline dpareja

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Re: When, if ever, did the Catholic Church cross the moral event horizon?
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2017, 08:40:20 pm »
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/fake-catholic-clergyman-edmonton-charged-child-exploitation-alert-1.4230681

Quote
An Edmonton man who falsely claimed to be a member of the Catholic clergy faces sexual assault and child pornography charges in the alleged exploitation of two teenage boys.

..wait, he thought it would help him to claim to be a member of the Catholic clergy in order to molest underage boys?
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

Quote
Be weird, cause normal is boring.

Offline TheContrarian

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Re: When, if ever, did the Catholic Church cross the moral event horizon?
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2017, 03:25:13 pm »
..wait, he thought it would help him to claim to be a member of the Catholic clergy in order to molest underage boys?

You can kind of see the logic there.

1. Molest kids
2. Claim to be a priest
3. ?????
4. Free plane ride to another Diocese in another country.

Just needed to fill in (3) a bit more and it's foolproof.


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