Author Topic: "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America"  (Read 11787 times)

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Offline MrsYoungie

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Re: "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America"
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2012, 09:15:52 am »
Here's some important numbers the makers of this little gem of a film should be made aware of:
"The Spanish influenza pandemic of 1918-19 killed between 20 and 40 million people worldwide, making it one of the largest and most destructive outbreaks of infectious disease in recorded history."

When millions of people die from the flu vaccine then they can come talk to me about it.
Same with the anti-vax parents.  They are too young to have seen the fall out from polio and whooping cough.  They need to go look at some old cemeteries and look at the hundreds of tiny tombstones.
"Invented spelling" I do remember from my sons' journals.  BUT - it was only for their journals which were not marked.  They still had spelling tests and grammar etc.  Their daily journals were supposed to be creative - like art class.  Results?  My older son is an excellent writer & speller.  My younger son, not so much.  I think this result would have been the same regardless of the methods used.

Offline TheL

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Re: "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America"
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2012, 09:25:11 am »
I got to the "invented spelling" shit and had to stop. It's not that students are getting "dumber" or "smarter," but that they are expected to know different things. Memorizing historical dates has no practical application beyond a history major; rote memorization of spelling words does nothing to teach the pronunciation, spelling, or meaning of new words. Teaching has become about broader concepts and connections, which has its flaws, but then, so did the original system they want to go back to. Otherwise it wouldn't have been changed.

+1

Yes, it is embarrassing if, in a discussion, I have to Google the dates of the Civil War. It makes me look stupid. However, I should point out that being forced to memorize this date doesn't contribute in any way to my understanding of the war in question; I still know quite a bit about it. I just don't remember some number that's tangentally related to it. So I would ask: Which is more helpful to teach American students?

1. The American Civil War was fought between 1861-1865 (I thought it was 1850; I was close!)
2. The Civil War was almost won by the South due to a crippling lack of military strategy by the North's forces; they pulled a British Empire and tried to march straight in, only to be destroyed by Robert E. Lee. In fact, until the Battle of Gettysburg, the South was all set to march on Washington, D.C.

If it seems I'm being unfair by including WAY more info in #2, consider this: I had to Google the dates; I memorized #2.

The annoying part is, I don't care about the names of the battles of Shiloh, Antietam, et al. nearly so much as I do about the general pattern of Southern aggression at the beginning of the war, Northern retaliation at the end, a general idea of how many casualties there were, how POWs were treated (horribly), and why the war was fought in the first place.  Yet middle school history classes ignore all the important stuff in favor of "the battle of Blahblah was fought on such-and-such date."  THAT'S NOT THE IMPORTANT PART!


AP Modern European History* was equally annoying.  We started with the Hundred Years' War, and an explanation that the English king was a vassal of France.  I had absolutely no fucking clue why the English king was beholden to France, and wouldn't find out until I stumbled upon the historical fiction of Susan Penman (mostly set during the lives of Eleanor of Acquitaine, Richard the Lionheart, and John II).  I learned mroe about the causes of the Hundred Years' War from fiction than I did from the actual history class. 

* The book only went up to the 18th century or thereabouts.  There was far more Renaissance/Tudor-era discussion during that class than there was anything in what most of us consider the modern period (roughly 1600-present).
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Offline Old Viking

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Re: "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America"
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2012, 05:28:10 pm »
When I apply for an architect position I'll tell them that I have a good general idea of mathematics, algebra and geometry, but I don't get hung up on specifics.
I am an old man, and I've seen many problems, most of which never happened.

Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America"
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2012, 05:30:58 pm »
I reckon the video should be renamed to "This Is What Libertarians Actually Believe".

Or even better still, they could add it at the bottom of the screen.

Honestly, if vaccines and iodine are suppressing my ability to follow libertarian doublethink and self-glorification, then I'm all for brainwashing.

*coughbullshitcough*

No, it should be called "What Conspiracy Theorists Actually Believe." I'm a libertarian and I obviously don't believe any of this crap.

However, my history teacher has told the class that because 99% of history textbooks in schools are boring, he'll just teach from memory. We don't remember the dates, but we remember the general timeframe, and most importantly, what actually happened. Even if you know the important dates of the American Civil War, it means nothing if you're a neo-Confederate, or if you think Abraham Lincoln was a vampire hunter.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 05:33:29 pm by Wykked Wytch »
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Offline Eniliad

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Re: "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America"
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2012, 05:33:58 pm »
AP Modern European History* was equally annoying.  We started with the Hundred Years' War, and an explanation that the English king was a vassal of France.  I had absolutely no fucking clue why the English king was beholden to France, and wouldn't find out until I stumbled upon the historical fiction of Susan Penman (mostly set during the lives of Eleanor of Acquitaine, Richard the Lionheart, and John II).  I learned mroe about the causes of the Hundred Years' War from fiction than I did from the actual history class.

You're going to laugh at this, I'm sure... but I learned a lot more about the Greek pantheon, as well as the stories attached to them, from playing the God of War series of games than I ever did in class. All we ever did in class was go rapidly through a dry listing of Greek gods/goddesses, what they represented, and then moved on to the culture of the civilization itself.

So yeah, I buy that you got more info regarding history from fiction than from class. It's sad, really.
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Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America"
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2012, 05:34:59 pm »
AP Modern European History* was equally annoying.  We started with the Hundred Years' War, and an explanation that the English king was a vassal of France.  I had absolutely no fucking clue why the English king was beholden to France, and wouldn't find out until I stumbled upon the historical fiction of Susan Penman (mostly set during the lives of Eleanor of Acquitaine, Richard the Lionheart, and John II).  I learned mroe about the causes of the Hundred Years' War from fiction than I did from the actual history class.

You're going to laugh at this, I'm sure... but I learned a lot more about the Greek pantheon, as well as the stories attached to them, from playing the God of War series of games than I ever did in class. All we ever did in class was go rapidly through a dry listing of Greek gods/goddesses, what they represented, and then moved on to the culture of the civilization itself.

So yeah, I buy that you got more info regarding history from fiction than from class. It's sad, really.

I learned it from Age of Mythology. And I learned about biology from Zoo Tycoon.
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Offline DiscoBerry

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Re: "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America"
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2012, 05:49:59 pm »
This is much more informative and entertaining
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGvOPeKoh3w" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGvOPeKoh3w</a>

Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America"
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2012, 05:53:42 pm »
most of us consider the modern period (roughly 1600-present).

Scholarly history regards the modern era as beginning with the French Revolution, and the rise of the modern (large) state). From about 1588-1789 is Early Modern, because government was more systematic, but still largely based on personal relations.

It annoys me that Australian schools repeatedly teach relative irrelevancies (the Exploration of Australia, the Goldrush, Colonisation, ect) while ignoring such important events as all European history before 1914.

It annoys me even further than at my university- a respected university, with a good history department, mind- students cannot take a single subject on any African history, international relations, politics or anything else. Not one.
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Offline SimSim

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Re: "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America"
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2012, 05:55:35 pm »
That's odd, as a history major I had to take a class on African history in order to get my degree.

Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America"
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2012, 05:56:13 pm »
Kinda came off as misanthropic to me.
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Offline Murdin

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Re: "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America"
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2012, 06:14:07 pm »
I reckon the video should be renamed to "This Is What Libertarians Actually Believe".

Or even better still, they could add it at the bottom of the screen.

Honestly, if vaccines and iodine are suppressing my ability to follow libertarian doublethink and self-glorification, then I'm all for brainwashing.

*coughbullshitcough*

No, it should be called "What Conspiracy Theorists Actually Believe." I'm a libertarian and I obviously don't believe any of this crap.

By "libertarian", I actually meant "stereotypical hardline registered member of the American Libertarian Party". Since "conservative" is often used in a very similar way (i.e the hardcore base of the conservative party, not everyone who ever voted for it), I thought it would be obvious. Still, it was horribly offensive to anyone who call themselves libertarian, and I apologise for this.

Offline JohnE

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Re: "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America"
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2012, 06:41:17 pm »
I couldn't watch more than about 2 1/2 minutes. "It's all about creativity and not hurting the childrens' feelings." Bullshit. It's all about teaching to the test these days. Creativity has no place in American public schools. It's being pushed out by filling in the right bubble.

I know I haven't been in public school for almost 14 years (god, am I that old?) but "there is no right or wrong answer" is NOT something I ever experiences.

EDIT because somehow I aced AP calculus but can't do basic subtraction.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 05:03:31 pm by JohnE »

Offline Eniliad

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Re: "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America"
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2012, 07:44:40 pm »
Then you missed the part where the second grader goes apeshit depressed over drugs they're forcing on her which includes fluoride and causes her to hang herself to death.

I envy you.
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Offline Da Rat Bastid

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Re: "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America"
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2012, 07:51:44 pm »
By "libertarian", I actually meant "stereotypical hardline registered member of the American Libertarian Party". Since "conservative" is often used in a very similar way (i.e the hardcore base of the conservative party, not everyone who ever voted for it), I thought it would be obvious. Still, it was horribly offensive to anyone who call themselves libertarian, and I apologise for this.

Apology accepted.  I don't like what's been done to my party, either. :(

Offline m52nickerson

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Re: "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America"
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2012, 08:01:04 pm »
I couldn't watch more than about 2 1/2 minutes. "It's all about creativity and not hurting the childrens' feelings." Bullshit. It's all about teaching to the test these days. Creativity has no place in American public schools. It's being pushed out by filling in the right bubble.

JohnE for the win please!
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