Author Topic: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients  (Read 11633 times)

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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2013, 07:06:24 pm »
And for one case, once it was proved that they weren't immunocompromised, which is why the doctor didn't want to put the child on the organ transplant list, they then scrambled to come up with another reason why they didn't feel like the child was a candidate. While I can understand they might not just lay down all the problems preventing someone getting on the list, it still smells bad to me to give one reason then when that one is proved wrong they mention a different reason.
The problem with people with disabilities being declined automatically will only be resolved when the number of doner organs exceeds the number of healthy people needing them. Right now, it is simply a matter of expedience to limit the list that the final decision gets made on.

I don't think so.  The problem will be resolved when people stop treating neuro-atypicals like they're lesser beings.

Like Shep has been consistently saying, it's not a case of a disabled person being passed up for someone less disabled, it's that the disabled people aren't even being considered or factored at all.  They are effectively non-existent in the eyes of these doctors, and that needs to be addressed post-haste, not when we "have enough organs to go around".
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Offline mellenORL

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Re: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2013, 02:37:43 pm »
Strongly agree, Magus. When you extrapolate the practice just one half a degree, it is clearly a de facto death sentence for disabled transplant candidates, and I think legally it is unconstitutional via several clauses, including the 14th, and the ADA.
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Offline Shane for Wax

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Re: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients
« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2013, 04:41:13 pm »
And for one case, once it was proved that they weren't immunocompromised, which is why the doctor didn't want to put the child on the organ transplant list, they then scrambled to come up with another reason why they didn't feel like the child was a candidate. While I can understand they might not just lay down all the problems preventing someone getting on the list, it still smells bad to me to give one reason then when that one is proved wrong they mention a different reason.
The problem with people with disabilities being declined automatically will only be resolved when the number of doner organs exceeds the number of healthy people needing them. Right now, it is simply a matter of expedience to limit the list that the final decision gets made on.

I don't think so.  The problem will be resolved when people stop treating neuro-atypicals like they're lesser beings.

Like Shep has been consistently saying, it's not a case of a disabled person being passed up for someone less disabled, it's that the disabled people aren't even being considered or factored at all.  They are effectively non-existent in the eyes of these doctors, and that needs to be addressed post-haste, not when we "have enough organs to go around".

Especially when that won't be the case for a long, long time. Until we've managed to harness the technology that is still in its infancy (such as 3D printed organs and such).

What needs to be done is having things like this nipped in the bud now before it ends up something ridiculous like 'well, we'd go and grow this organ for you buuuut you're chronically depressed with Asperger's so maybe we should put our effort behind growing the organ for someone else.'.

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QueenofHearts

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Re: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients
« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2013, 08:42:21 pm »
Strongly agree, Magus. When you extrapolate the practice just one half a degree, it is clearly a de facto death sentence for disabled transplant candidates, and I think legally it is unconstitutional via several clauses, including the 14th, and the ADA.

That's the second time you've said 14th amendment, and quite frankly, I'm here to inform you it doesn't mean what you think it means...

Other laws, you could make that argument, but I understand the practice. This is what is called an "ethical dilemma" and it's called that because there is no right answers. Someone will die from this (be it a disabled or an enabled patient) so, I'll sit that debate out and leave it to the medical profession. They're in a better place to make this value judgment than I.

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2013, 09:47:53 pm »
The issue isn't over whether or not a disabled or enabled patient deserves the organ more.  The issue is over the fact that the disabled patient isn't even being considered at all.

The ethical dilemma isn't even being reached because it's not being allowed to happen in the first place.
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Offline Shane for Wax

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Re: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2013, 10:06:05 pm »
I'm really not sure how many times I need to repeat that, Zach. Which thank you for understanding my point. I'm not concerned about the 'more' I'm concerned about the 'not at all'. (Technically both but my entire argument has hinged on the 'not at all' that worries me about the state of healthcare and my chances if I ever need more than a blood transfusion).

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Re: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients
« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2013, 11:15:05 pm »
The issue isn't over whether or not a disabled or enabled patient deserves the organ more.  The issue is over the fact that the disabled patient isn't even being considered at all.

The ethical dilemma isn't even being reached because it's not being allowed to happen in the first place.

Again, I'm sitting it out, but it is being reached because the medical profession is saying "we have this many organs and this many more patients. We'll give these organs to those we feel will have the best quality of life (the enabled patients) over those that won't (disabled patients)." I only say this to say, the moral dilemma is being reached. But again, I'm sitting this out because like that one thread way back in flame & burn about the trans inmate getting SRS, it's a moral dilemma and there are no right answers. People WILL die and people WILL live no matter which course you opt for.

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2013, 11:30:43 pm »
Well, since you said that you're going to sit this one out, I'll respect your wishes.

To other people on the forum who are still unconvinced, here's a hypothetical scenario.  A trans* person is kept off of the waiting list simply because they are trans*.  A cisman is admitted to the list with no argument whatsoever.  Does that sound like a simple case of an ethical dilemma?
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QueenofHearts

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Re: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients
« Reply #38 on: December 25, 2013, 11:22:48 am »
Well, since you said that you're going to sit this one out, I'll respect your wishes.

To other people on the forum who are still unconvinced, here's a hypothetical scenario.  A trans* person is kept off of the waiting list simply because they are trans*.  A cisman is admitted to the list with no argument whatsoever.  Does that sound like a simple case of an ethical dilemma?

Respect my wishes you say... and then you make a transparent post hoping to flamebait me back in...

I'm still sitting this one out, I'm just calling you out on such an obvious post (because no one else will). So Merry Christmas.

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients
« Reply #39 on: December 25, 2013, 04:22:28 pm »
I'm sorry for any offense, but my post is legitimately just aimed at other people reading this topic.  In some places, transgenderism is still considered a mental illness, so what I described could be happening right now.  Hence why it made a good example.

You know what it's like to have people continuously miss your point, I'm just trying to clarify it and prevent it from happening again.
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Offline Sylvana

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Re: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2013, 09:25:04 am »
Well, since you said that you're going to sit this one out, I'll respect your wishes.

To other people on the forum who are still unconvinced, here's a hypothetical scenario.  A trans* person is kept off of the waiting list simply because they are trans*.  A cisman is admitted to the list with no argument whatsoever.  Does that sound like a simple case of an ethical dilemma?

Yeap, it is still a simple medical situation.
Given the rarity of organs, a trans-person wouldn't even begin to be considered. In the great grading of people and where they lie in getting organs, trans-people would rate below people with mental disorders, they are higher risk, and the external hormone use places an extra burden on most organs.

Just like how people with mental disorders are not considered, trans-people are also not considered because there is always another perfectly healthy individual who needs an organ.

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2013, 01:00:14 pm »
Yay neurotypical/cisgender privilege then.  Everything is right with the world. </sarcasm>
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Offline Shane for Wax

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Re: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2013, 01:12:05 pm »
The fact that I can still taste bile should tell you how I feel about this whole thing. I honestly don't know how someone can be perfectly okay with something like this simply because it's an 'unfortunate moral dilemma'. But then, I'm biased considering the fact that I am now terrified I might need a kidney transplant in the future and be denied simply for being who I am and having problems I can't control.

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Offline mellenORL

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Re: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients
« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2013, 02:00:56 pm »
Shep, do you have a blood relative known to you who might donate a kidney in that case?
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Re: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients
« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2013, 06:05:18 pm »
My dad and I are a blood match (we're both A+) and he has said before he would but it depends on multiple factors. Since I'm adopted it would wind up being either my dad (who just happens to share my blood type) or someone on the registry. Since transplant doesn't go entirely by blood match (you also have to match tissue type and other things) there are no guarantees that dad would be a match (it doesn't have to be 100%. There is room for 'error' but you have to be at least 80% I think?)

Beyond dad? No. Unless I end up tracking down my biological family which could also be a possibility, depending.

Hence my worries. Because I actually have had to look into such things based on my anomalies. I had to have a blood transfusion when I was little and that put me on the road of being prepared for a possible organ transplant such as kidney since I have some of the most problems with them.

EDIT- I just remembered that dad had hepatitis B which could disqualify him from being a donor. I know he's not allowed to donate blood anymore so I suspect that that means he can't donate organs either. Well... fuck.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 01:01:24 am by Commander Shepard »

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