Author Topic: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.  (Read 13831 times)

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Offline Rabbit of Caerbannog

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2012, 04:25:41 pm »
Relevant to the discussion of "nice" guys.

Offline NonProphet

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2012, 04:36:48 pm »
Relating to the book covers:
I don't see much of a problem with the pose of the character in the 3rd one (any more than with the first), but her expression & lack of Navajo features are a bit annoying. As is the open jacket, considering she's in a place that's similar in climate to Northern Siberia (or colder).
Now, as for the character's body type on the 3rd cover... yes, she is normally more full-figured. It's likely that the artist took too much of a liberty with the body type (or used a stock model, which happens often). I agree that the overall image suffers for it.

As for the comments about the 3rd cover's woman looking "skeletal": No. The model used might have had that body type.
While I am one of the first to be up in arms about curvy & full-figured women being insulted because of their body types, I also cannot stand it when people insult slender & thin women for the same.
I'm not saying you're doing it, TheL, but I've been seeing it too often lately & it's hypocritical. Maybe I'll post something about it in F&B.

...Sorry, rant/hijack over.

Offline Feral Dog

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2012, 05:17:37 pm »
Relevant to the discussion of "nice" guys.

Something Positive had it pegged by name before the term was in wide use.
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Offline Material Defender

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2012, 06:10:16 pm »
I think the issue is that "Nice guy" doesn't have a nice, firm definition and thus people think they can take the label and use it to improve their reputation with the opposite sex without actually meaning anything at all.
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Offline Rabbit of Caerbannog

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2012, 07:13:26 pm »
I think the issue is that "Nice guy" doesn't have a nice, firm definition and thus people think they can take the label and use it to improve their reputation with the opposite sex without actually meaning anything at all.
Protip for these people: "Nice" is not synonymous with "socially awkward". You also cannot call yourself "nice" and then in the next  breath call women "sluts" and "bitches".

Offline Material Defender

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2012, 07:34:50 pm »
I would love to call myself nice, but I have moments of horrifying lack of empathy and impulsive behavior.
The material needs a defender more than the spiritual. If there is a higher power, it can defend itself from the material. Thus denotes 'higher power'.

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Offline TheL

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2012, 07:49:27 pm »
Relating to the book covers:
I don't see much of a problem with the pose of the character in the 3rd one (any more than with the first), but her expression & lack of Navajo features are a bit annoying. As is the open jacket, considering she's in a place that's similar in climate to Northern Siberia (or colder).
Now, as for the character's body type on the 3rd cover... yes, she is normally more full-figured. It's likely that the artist took too much of a liberty with the body type (or used a stock model, which happens often). I agree that the overall image suffers for it.

As for the comments about the 3rd cover's woman looking "skeletal": No. The model used might have had that body type.
While I am one of the first to be up in arms about curvy & full-figured women being insulted because of their body types, I also cannot stand it when people insult slender & thin women for the same.
I'm not saying you're doing it, TheL, but I've been seeing it too often lately & it's hypocritical. Maybe I'll post something about it in F&B.

...Sorry, rant/hijack over.

I'm not saying "I don't think Yana should be skinny."  I am saying, "This picture makes it look like the person's bones are literally showing."  That is what I mean by skeletal.  I am totally fine with skinny people.
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Offline gomer21xx

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2012, 10:35:52 am »
Relating to the book covers:
I don't see much of a problem with the pose of the character in the 3rd one (any more than with the first), but her expression & lack of Navajo features are a bit annoying. As is the open jacket, considering she's in a place that's similar in climate to Northern Siberia (or colder).
Now, as for the character's body type on the 3rd cover... yes, she is normally more full-figured. It's likely that the artist took too much of a liberty with the body type (or used a stock model, which happens often). I agree that the overall image suffers for it.

As for the comments about the 3rd cover's woman looking "skeletal": No. The model used might have had that body type.
While I am one of the first to be up in arms about curvy & full-figured women being insulted because of their body types, I also cannot stand it when people insult slender & thin women for the same.
I'm not saying you're doing it, TheL, but I've been seeing it too often lately & it's hypocritical. Maybe I'll post something about it in F&B.

...Sorry, rant/hijack over.

I'm not saying "I don't think Yana should be skinny."  I am saying, "This picture makes it look like the person's bones are literally showing."  That is what I mean by skeletal.  I am totally fine with skinny people.

I would hope you are, since you tend to be one. ;)
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Offline Agni

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2012, 09:24:38 pm »
Another meme is friendzoning. Being nice to girl doesn't mean she's obligated to go out with you or have sex with you. That's a really sad thing to think. Honestly if a guy expected me to have sex with simply because he's nice to be, he's treating me worse than a prostitute. When prostitutes get paid, money is money, they aren't pretending to pay you just for sex.

Also, I hate it when men(and sometimes women) complain about women complaining. Or about how "all women care about in a guy is money, a nice car, and a big d*ck". That has nothing to do with gender! There are men who leave their awesome girlfriend because her breasts weren't big enough, or she gained weight. Douche-baggery knows no genders.

I dunno, I use the term "friendzone" in a joking manner when referring to girls who I'm friends with. Never really intended it to be a sexist term or not.

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2012, 02:52:03 am »
Re, "Nice Guys:"  Altruism does not work that way.

Also, "increasing popularity?"  ...Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the "male gaze" been popular pretty much since the dawn of humanity, most notably in more patriarchal societies?  This isn't some new phenomenon, and its prevalence isn't something new, either.  The thing is, we're more aware of it, nowadays.  We've got the internet, and its accessibility is bordering on universal.  The generations alive today (and those of tomorrow) have access to a broader, deeper range of information than at any other point in human history.  This allows us to really see just how wide-spread certain ideas are, to understand the true scope of that which is our nature as a species.

Its not the popularity that's increased, but our ability to see it on a global scale.  The same thing applies to, say, the prevalence of crimes, or the levels of depravity to which certain religious organizations can reach.  We see more, we hear more, but not necessarily because there is more, we've just got better access to it, now.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 02:54:58 am by RavynousHunter »
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Offline Auggziliary

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2012, 03:02:48 pm »
Another meme is friendzoning. Being nice to girl doesn't mean she's obligated to go out with you or have sex with you. That's a really sad thing to think. Honestly if a guy expected me to have sex with simply because he's nice to be, he's treating me worse than a prostitute. When prostitutes get paid, money is money, they aren't pretending to pay you just for sex.

Also, I hate it when men(and sometimes women) complain about women complaining. Or about how "all women care about in a guy is money, a nice car, and a big d*ck". That has nothing to do with gender! There are men who leave their awesome girlfriend because her breasts weren't big enough, or she gained weight. Douche-baggery knows no genders.

I dunno, I use the term "friendzone" in a joking manner when referring to girls who I'm friends with. Never really intended it to be a sexist term or not.

I don't know what you mean.
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Offline Auggziliary

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2012, 03:11:37 pm »
This is kind of related, but I just realized I used to be "Nice guy"("nice girl" technically) when I was in love with this one chick. She was straight and I'd often get pissed whenever she'd complain about not having a boyfriend or whatever. I never got mad at her, of course, but I'd get passive aggressive and think some of the same things those "nice guys" think.
Of course, this was my first love, and I was only 12 and 13, so this was probably had a lot to do with my lack of maturity (which seems to be the case in a lot of "nice guys" anyways).
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Offline Agni

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2012, 07:15:09 pm »
Another meme is friendzoning. Being nice to girl doesn't mean she's obligated to go out with you or have sex with you. That's a really sad thing to think. Honestly if a guy expected me to have sex with simply because he's nice to be, he's treating me worse than a prostitute. When prostitutes get paid, money is money, they aren't pretending to pay you just for sex.

Also, I hate it when men(and sometimes women) complain about women complaining. Or about how "all women care about in a guy is money, a nice car, and a big d*ck". That has nothing to do with gender! There are men who leave their awesome girlfriend because her breasts weren't big enough, or she gained weight. Douche-baggery knows no genders.

I dunno, I use the term "friendzone" in a joking manner when referring to girls who I'm friends with. Never really intended it to be a sexist term or not.

I don't know what you mean.

What I mean is that I use the term "friendzone" when talking about girls who I'm good friends with to the point that getting into a relationship would be awkward for us. I don't use it with the "that bitch" connotation other guys use it in.

Offline Auggziliary

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2012, 07:17:08 pm »
Another meme is friendzoning. Being nice to girl doesn't mean she's obligated to go out with you or have sex with you. That's a really sad thing to think. Honestly if a guy expected me to have sex with simply because he's nice to be, he's treating me worse than a prostitute. When prostitutes get paid, money is money, they aren't pretending to pay you just for sex.

Also, I hate it when men(and sometimes women) complain about women complaining. Or about how "all women care about in a guy is money, a nice car, and a big d*ck". That has nothing to do with gender! There are men who leave their awesome girlfriend because her breasts weren't big enough, or she gained weight. Douche-baggery knows no genders.

I dunno, I use the term "friendzone" in a joking manner when referring to girls who I'm friends with. Never really intended it to be a sexist term or not.

I don't know what you mean.

What I mean is that I use the term "friendzone" when talking about girls who I'm good friends with to the point that getting into a relationship would be awkward for us. I don't use it with the "that bitch" connotation other guys use it in.

Oh. I actually like that use of the word better, it makes more sense. Too bad the connotation is bad now.
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Offline TheL

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2012, 06:36:57 pm »
Re, "Nice Guys:"  Altruism does not work that way.

Also, "increasing popularity?"  ...Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the "male gaze" been popular pretty much since the dawn of humanity, most notably in more patriarchal societies?  This isn't some new phenomenon, and its prevalence isn't something new, either.  The thing is, we're more aware of it, nowadays.  We've got the internet, and its accessibility is bordering on universal.  The generations alive today (and those of tomorrow) have access to a broader, deeper range of information than at any other point in human history.  This allows us to really see just how wide-spread certain ideas are, to understand the true scope of that which is our nature as a species.

Its not the popularity that's increased, but our ability to see it on a global scale.  The same thing applies to, say, the prevalence of crimes, or the levels of depravity to which certain religious organizations can reach.  We see more, we hear more, but not necessarily because there is more, we've just got better access to it, now.

Dude, compare Barbie to Monster High.  Both are marketed at the same people: elementary-age girls.  Both are made by Mattel.  One has been in continuous production, in more or less its present form, for about 50 years now; the other is completely brand-new.

Barbie has D-cup breasts, yes, but she has a straight back.  She is standing erect like a normal human being.  The only things that you can really complain about are her feet (which are designed that way so she can fit into the high-heeled shoes properly--jointed ankles on dolls tend not to work out so well) and her skinny waist (which has been improved over the years to be not nearly as anorexic).

You can't tell it as much when they're in the package, but the Monster High girls have badly bent spines.  They may only have the equivalent of a B-cup, but they're thrusting it out about as far as Barbie's chest, and it looks really weird from the side.  What is obvious is how much more exaggerated everything is: the heads are proportionally much larger and cartoonish, sure, but their torsos and limbs are scary-thin and elongated like Bratz.  Monster High dolls and Bratz dolls can wear the same clothing, because they're both nightmarishly thin; Barbies can't squeeze into the clothes of either doll line.

Speaking of Bratz, look at the makeup.  Both of those Mattel dolls are wearing heavy makeup, but the faces still look like pretty high-school girls with reasonable proportions (again, Monster High exaggerates the size of the eyes a bit, because it's more cartoonish).  But Bratz has HUGE, pouty red lips--a typical indicator of female sexuality.  It's been exaggerated to the point that it doesn't even look cute anymore; it's just ugly and creepy-looking, and vaguely reminiscent of racist minstrel shows.  The Bratz line only sells at all anymore through sheer inertia; the line was popular when it debuted in 2000 and has slumped since.

This sort of broken-spine, huge-lipped foolishness literally did not exist in the dolls that were marketed to me when I was a little girl.  It is being marketed to little girls now.  And it is transparently used to accentuate curves and other sexual features while simultaneously making a figure that is stick-thin to a degree not possible in a human being.
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