Author Topic: The Knight of Faith?  (Read 2419 times)

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Offline Raymond Dullaghy

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The Knight of Faith?
« on: July 22, 2013, 07:13:26 am »
I've been intrigued by Soren Kierkegaard's (sic) "Knight of Faith" ideal. I've read several of his writings, including "Fear and Trembling", but his writing was pretty hard to understand, even with the Cliff's Notes. Could anyone sum it up so I don't have to waste money on a philosophy degree?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 08:13:25 am by Raymond Dullaghy »
I'm in science to discover and analyze God's wonderful universe, not gripe about how people don't like God.  I believe the creation/evolution debate is a waste of Christian brains (we have them, believe it or not) that could be better spent on making actual things.

Favorite philosophers (out of the ones I've personally read): Jesus, Solomon, Marcus Aurelius, Immanuel Kant

Offline MadmanJohnson

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Re: The Knight of Faith?
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2013, 09:26:07 am »
KILL....FOR THE LORD.
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Offline Raymond Dullaghy

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Re: The Knight of Faith?
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2013, 09:30:09 am »
...I'm pretty certain we're thinking of different "knights of faith".
I'm in science to discover and analyze God's wonderful universe, not gripe about how people don't like God.  I believe the creation/evolution debate is a waste of Christian brains (we have them, believe it or not) that could be better spent on making actual things.

Favorite philosophers (out of the ones I've personally read): Jesus, Solomon, Marcus Aurelius, Immanuel Kant

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Re: The Knight of Faith?
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2013, 02:22:27 pm »
I'm afraid I don't actually have any idea what you mean by a "Knight of Faith" in the first place.
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Re: The Knight of Faith?
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2013, 03:15:19 pm »
I had not heard of this either, but this came up in a google search.  And in a nutshell, MJ appears to be correct.  While that may not be the be all and end all of the concept, it does appear from the blog I linked to that a true "knight of Faith" does what God tells him to do regardless of any other law or moral restrictions we as humans have put into place.

In other words, all those people that listen to the voices in their heads telling them to do horrendous things are aces in Kierkegaard's book.
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Offline MadmanJohnson

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Re: The Knight of Faith?
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2013, 03:42:10 pm »
I had not heard of this either, but this came up in a google search.  And in a nutshell, MJ appears to be correct.  While that may not be the be all and end all of the concept, it does appear from the blog I linked to that a true "knight of Faith" does what God tells him to do regardless of any other law or moral restrictions we as humans have put into place.

In other words, all those people that listen to the voices in their heads telling them to do horrendous things are aces in Kierkegaard's book.
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In other words....Kill....FOR THE LORD.
Before you die an agonizing, chainsaw-related death, you're gonna hear about the Hate Plague!
I'm accusing you of being stupid.
I dare to be stupid.

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Re: The Knight of Faith?
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2013, 03:44:29 pm »
Since no one else has done it:

Søren Kierkegaard
Knight of Faith

The see also is somewhat telling:
Quote from: wikifolk
See also:
Angst
Übermensch
Doublethink

If you roll those three up in a jesusy package I think you pretty much have it.

Offline Raymond Dullaghy

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Re: The Knight of Faith?
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2013, 03:56:07 pm »
I read the article as you suggested, as well as the comments. Based on what I've read, it seems "knights of faith" are the exception, rather than the rule. The reason I brought the issue up is that yes, I am a Christian (Lutheran, specifically), but I want to be more than a vapid "believer" without falling into the fundie trap. I had heard things--both good and bad--about Soren, and I wanted to see for myself. It's just that Fear and Trembling was confusingly laid out. Strange, considering I've read Kant's "Metaphysics of Morals" which is quite a snoozer.

Thanks for your help.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 04:00:27 pm by Raymond Dullaghy »
I'm in science to discover and analyze God's wonderful universe, not gripe about how people don't like God.  I believe the creation/evolution debate is a waste of Christian brains (we have them, believe it or not) that could be better spent on making actual things.

Favorite philosophers (out of the ones I've personally read): Jesus, Solomon, Marcus Aurelius, Immanuel Kant

Offline Old Viking

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Re: The Knight of Faith?
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2013, 04:25:23 pm »
Broadway rehearsals are underway now for "Kierkegaard: The Musical."
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Offline Errata

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Re: The Knight of Faith?
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2013, 10:45:35 pm »
Kierkegaard's "Knight of Faith" is Nietzsche's Ubermensch but he believes in God. It's a person unconstrained by the cultural moral structure, who defines his morality and assertion of will on his own, and is able to pursue his course without needing validation from a power or authority structure like government, church, peers, etc.

In spite of all the pop shots that we like to take at Kierkegaard for being a Christian and pretty damn crazy in his own right, the idea is not someone who kills for the Lord. It's someone who is, in theory, unrestrained by structures and expresses true individualism, which means he expresses true faith because his faith is entirely a product of himself. It is not produced by adherence to creed, dogma, or organization.

If you're looking into Kierkegaard, there's something you need to understand about him: the man had good ideas and totally never lived up to any of them. Kierkegaard as a human was a severely flawed individual with a ton of problems and I've little idea how many of them he honestly owned up to and how many he just did not care about. Despite that, Kierkegaard was also ahead of Nietzsche in terms of considering the role of the individual and the expression of will. The two read like Left Brain/Right Brain counterparts. His work is undeniably unique and, along with Nietzsche and Sartre, is still highly important, especially in Christian philosophy circles. He's basically the more complicated C.S. Lewis without all the monarchy love.

I'd suggest giving his stuff a read (Fear and Trembling, Either/Or, and Philosophical Fragments are, I think, his most influential works), because, as a Christian thinker, Kierkegaard was quite a new voice and brought new thoughts to field, but as you've already discovered, he's also pretty confusing and nowhere near as succint as Lewis or Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. So, having Cliffnotes on the side and checking out some of his influences would be a big help.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 10:55:25 pm by Errata »
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Offline Old Viking

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Re: The Knight of Faith?
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2013, 02:30:38 pm »
Being unique in Christian philosophy circles is like being unique in yodeling circles.  It's a distinction, but it signifies nothing of interest or value.
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Offline Errata

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Re: The Knight of Faith?
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2013, 07:34:32 pm »
Being unique in Christian philosophy circles is like being unique in yodeling circles.  It's a distinction, but it signifies nothing of interest or value.

Yeah, fuck fifteen hundred years of thought and five hundred years of musical development. Fuck em both in the same breath I say!
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Offline Old Viking

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Re: The Knight of Faith?
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2013, 09:00:32 pm »
What qualifies as "thought" depends upon how liberal your criteria are.  And yodeling is to music as hopscotch is to chess.
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Offline Errata

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Re: The Knight of Faith?
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2013, 09:13:18 pm »
What qualifies as "thought" depends upon how liberal your criteria are.  And yodeling is to music as hopscotch is to chess.

You casually dismissed philosophy, music, and games in two sentences. Obviously this is no longer a thread for serious discussion.

So, who's your favorite knight of faith? This one's mine.



Awww yeah... eat your heart out Soren!
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Offline Lithp

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Re: The Knight of Faith?
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2013, 05:41:39 am »
Quote
the man had good ideas and totally never lived up to any of them.

Every philosopher everywhere!

Old Viking's got a point. A lot of Christian philosophy is SEVERELY outdated, & really was ONLY ever a subject of interest because Christianity has held a historical dominance in western education for so long.

I mean, you've got the ontological arguments, which are all basically a variant of "God exists because we think he does," Pascal's Wager which is famous for its false dichotomy, & then a very notable Christian philosopher is Kant, who basically just pointed out the fallacies of his predecessors & said that clearly God could not be explained through logic.

So there are some very compelling Christian philosophies, but the whole idea is pretty much handicapped by this assumption of a Christian God. And the ones that relate directly to the existence of this God just don't seem to stand the test of time. And why should they? The very book he comes from is just full of contradictions & inaccuracies.

Now, philosophers argue, & there's no such thing as an uncontested truth, but this seems to be one field where you can be flat-out debunked, sometimes by basic common sense, & still considered "great."

Also, while I don't say that philosophy is worthless or anything like that, the field undeniably took a hit when modern science came about. Suddenly, we had ways to identify, as an actual fact, which natural philsophers were right. And with advancements made with psychology & neuroscience, we're starting to have more explanatory power for human nature, as well.