Author Topic: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet  (Read 274175 times)

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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #120 on: January 30, 2016, 01:02:35 pm »
What is this whole "the Jews killed Jesus" nonsense anyway? It was the Romans who crucified him.

Besides, I thought the whole point of Jesus existing was to get crucified in the first place. Basically, God sacrificing himself to himself to appease himself in order to save us all from himself.


Which would (should, anyway) make Judas, who got him arrested, directly leading to his execution, a hero, not a villain, correct? Whatever. 's all made up anyway.

Um, the historical consensus is that there really was a Jesus of Nazareth who was born within the vicinity of 1 CE, got baptized, started a religious movement when he was about thirty, and was crucified by Pontius Pilate.  Everything else is up for debate, but that much is agreed upon.

What is this whole "the Jews killed Jesus" nonsense anyway? It was the Romans who crucified him.

Besides, I thought the whole point of Jesus existing was to get crucified in the first place. Basically, God sacrificing himself to himself to appease himself in order to save us all from himself.

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert in early Christianity.

If you wanted to be a pedantic asshole you could argue that the Jewish authorities were technically responsible because they turned Jesus in to the authorities, but the Romans were the ones who actually carried out the execution. Jesus also posed a threat to the Romans because he preached against the Roman occupation of Judea and thus the Romans would have had a reason to execute him. There were a ton of Jewish sects and messiah claimants at the time and the Jews didn't go around executing everyone who disagreed with them. The "Jews killed Jesus" canard came about around the time Christianity started gaining popularity with gentiles, so I'm guessing we can blame Paul for this.

Then again, we're trying to apply logic to a flyer made by someone who thinks serial killers are part of an occult conspiracy to the goddess Ceres, Germans are persecuted, Jewish people worship the Holocaust and are trying to push "Holocaustianity" on everyone, and that Mel Gibson sold out to the Jews (among other insane things). "Jews killed Jesus" is probably the least ridiculous thing he believes.

I was always taught that Christian anti-Semitism didn't start until later, when official persecutions began under Nero.

Offline Ironchew

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #121 on: January 30, 2016, 01:24:42 pm »
Um, the historical consensus is that there really was a Jesus of Nazareth who was born within the vicinity of 1 CE, got baptized, started a religious movement when he was about thirty, and was crucified by Pontius Pilate.  Everything else is up for debate, but that much is agreed upon.

I'm surprised you aren't sharing this knowledge in the Mythicism thread. Suffice to say, that's a lot more detail than the historical consensus and it's all up for debate.
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Offline rookie

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #122 on: January 30, 2016, 09:04:44 pm »
Something else to consider. The word messiah around that time period carried with it the implication of military. And the saviour part, coupled with a military word, could cause the Romans to, say, take interest.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #123 on: January 30, 2016, 09:17:17 pm »
Something else to consider. The word messiah around that time period carried with it the implication of military. And the saviour part, coupled with a military word, could cause the Romans to, say, take interest.

Especially considering Judea was a notoriously restive province.

Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #124 on: January 31, 2016, 08:22:10 am »
What is this whole "the Jews killed Jesus" nonsense anyway? It was the Romans who crucified him.

Besides, I thought the whole point of Jesus existing was to get crucified in the first place. Basically, God sacrificing himself to himself to appease himself in order to save us all from himself.
Which would (should, anyway) make Judas, who got him arrested, directly leading to his execution, a hero, not a villain, correct? Whatever. 's all made up anyway.
That was one version of the story. It was dropped from the official Bible, though.
It's not so much a version as it is an interpretation, though? Given that Judas is instrumental to the crucifixion, and given that the crucifixion is needed to save mankind from Hell (two things most of the Bible fandom agrees on), it's fairly straightforward to say Judas 'betraying' Jesus was a good thing. I don't know how you can drop that from the Bible.
According to the Gospel of Judas Jesus directly told Judas to "betray" him.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #125 on: January 31, 2016, 09:48:31 am »


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Offline ironbite

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #126 on: January 31, 2016, 04:47:49 pm »
I....I think you fail to see what this person is actually saying.

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #127 on: January 31, 2016, 04:49:17 pm »
I am honestly confused as to what this person is saying.
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Offline davedan

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #128 on: January 31, 2016, 05:00:50 pm »
What is this whole "the Jews killed Jesus" nonsense anyway? It was the Romans who crucified him.

Besides, I thought the whole point of Jesus existing was to get crucified in the first place. Basically, God sacrificing himself to himself to appease himself in order to save us all from himself.
Which would (should, anyway) make Judas, who got him arrested, directly leading to his execution, a hero, not a villain, correct? Whatever. 's all made up anyway.
That was one version of the story. It was dropped from the official Bible, though.
It's not so much a version as it is an interpretation, though? Given that Judas is instrumental to the crucifixion, and given that the crucifixion is needed to save mankind from Hell (two things most of the Bible fandom agrees on), it's fairly straightforward to say Judas 'betraying' Jesus was a good thing. I don't know how you can drop that from the Bible.
According to the Gospel of Judas Jesus directly told Judas to "betray" him.

The gospel of Judas (at least the one we have found) is no more connected to any first hand account than any of the synoptic gospels. Like them it was written many years after the time Jesus was supposed to have died and was not written, or even dictated, by the person whose name it bears. Mark for instance doesn't even claim to be written by Mark.

Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #129 on: February 01, 2016, 03:23:21 am »
The gospel of Judas (at least the one we have found) is no more connected to any first hand account than any of the synoptic gospels. Like them it was written many years after the time Jesus was supposed to have died and was not written, or even dictated, by the person whose name it bears. Mark for instance doesn't even claim to be written by Mark.
I'm not making that claim either. I was just making the point that the interpretation of Judas as a heroic figure is not a new one.

Offline davedan

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #130 on: February 01, 2016, 03:42:08 am »
No but then again the only logically consistent view is that Judas is a hero. When you think about it, his suffering was going to be greater too as he would have known that he would be reviled.

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #131 on: February 01, 2016, 03:55:42 am »
That's just like your opinion man.
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Offline davedan

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #132 on: February 01, 2016, 03:59:16 am »
Well if it took Jesus's sacrifice to redeem mankind, how can Judas be anything other than a hero?

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #133 on: February 01, 2016, 09:16:53 am »
This brings to mind an early-90s movie called "The Judas Project" that I watched in prison, basically trying to set the story of Jesus in modern times to make it more relatable. Problem was, it was set in America in a time of relative peace (the Cold War had ended just a few years before), so Jesse's (the Jesus character) threat to those in power was pretty much summed up as "he's causing unrest", with no indication of what kind of unrest shown in the movie itself. In the movie, the crucifixion is carried out in secret, pretty much like a Mafia hit, as opposed to having the backing of law that it did in the Bible itself. The Pilate character also left after telling the priest, "if you want him dead, do it yourself," so the priest (who had the most stereotypically Jewish features I've ever seen) stage-managed the whole thing and ended up fried with a fireball from Heaven for his trouble.

Fact is, though, that crucifixion wasn't a common form of execution for the Romans. Its use varied depending on time and place, but for the most part, it was reserved for those the Romans felt were a threat to their power. So while the story in the Bible tries to portray it as Jesus' execution being arranged by Caiaphas and the other priests for blasphemy, it really only makes sense for Pilate to engage in that form of execution if he felt that A) Jesus was engaging in sedition against the Roman state or B) that killing Jesus would quell the unrest that was stirring up AGAINST him, thus helping to maintain order. If it were as simple as a blasphemy charge, he would have told the priests, "Why don't you just stone him the way you do for other blasphemers?"
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Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #134 on: February 01, 2016, 04:50:56 pm »
I made the mistake of eyeing through some of the comments on the newer Deadpool trailer.

Quote
Could the "badguy" chick in this have been anymore like a man?  What an uber "Strap-on Bull dyke".  That 3rd wave of feminism encourages this sort of "could not back that shit up in the real world" crap.  Violence against her will be one for the women's movement. The young Gen Z girl is also one for the women's movement I suppose.  Big and Little Mangina do not have an ounce of femininity between them.  Another pseudo feminist crap movie I will never watch.  Hollywood is run by Pussies.