Author Topic: The Myth of "Alt-Left"  (Read 271 times)

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Offline Askold

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The Myth of "Alt-Left"
« on: September 22, 2017, 01:26:09 pm »
https://qz.com/1083444/analysis-of-500-million-reddit-comments-shows-how-the-alt-right-made-the-alt-left-a-thing/?utm_source=qzfb

Interesting article. The main point is that the so called "Alt-Left" was invented by the Alt-Right to be a counterpart on other other side of the political spectrum that they can point to when their own crimes and misdemeanors are mentioned.

But other than in the dreams of Alt-Right this leftist bogeyman does not seem to exist. Stories about crimes, whether real or alternative-facts, are blamed on Alt-Left (and later ANTIFA) and massive conspiracy theories about radical leftists who are supposedly trying to destroy Christianity are spread on the net.

Although I have noticed that ANTIFA (which really is no more of an organization than Anonymous) is the current right-wing horror story at least on the parts of the web that I go into so the article might be a bit old news. Or maybe I'm just out of the loop.
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Re: The Myth of "Alt-Left"
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2017, 01:56:30 pm »
It kind of makes you sad for humanity when "but those guys are worse" is an argument that actually works on most people. Especially so when "those guys" don't even exist in the first place.

Offline ironbite

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Re: The Myth of "Alt-Left"
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2017, 02:10:23 pm »
Its easy to attack a group that doesn't exist.  Harder is defending yourself against people who do exist of course.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: The Myth of "Alt-Left"
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2017, 02:42:40 pm »
Eh, it's the new 'SJW.' Another day another snarl word.

Offline TheContrarian

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Re: The Myth of "Alt-Left"
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2017, 02:18:02 pm »
It's not "alt-" anything if the mainstream end of that thing accepts and defends everything the supposed "alt-" end does.

When the only criticism the left can come up with for Antifa's acts of violence amounts to a pitiful No-True-Scotsman, it's a bad sign of the shite you've taken to heart.


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Offline dpareja

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Re: The Myth of "Alt-Left"
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2017, 03:27:01 pm »
Antifa is part of the left, undoubtedly. Most of the positions they hold--outside of their propensity for violence--are in line with the rest of the left. The rest of their positions (like deplatforming right-wing speakers) are in line with the authoritarian left (as opposed to the libertarian left, which is outright gleeful to have idiots like Ben Shapiro, Steven Crowder, Ann Coulter, Milo Yiannopoulos, Richard Spencer, etc., speak because they just expose their hatred, bigotry, and stupidity whenever they do).

That doesn't mean we (or at least I) condone their actions. I'm in full agreement with Noam Chomsky--Antifa is the biggest gift the left can give the right, because the moment both sides accept violence, the more violent side will win, and that is undoubtedly the right.

Plus, resorting to violence (as the right is far more prone to do than the left) is an admission that you can't convince people of the correctness of your views any other way--which makes me despise Antifa all the more, because I'm convinced that the left is correct and does not need violence, because the left will win the war of ideas because it has superior ideas. The right needs violence because its ideas are atrocious and the only way it can impose them is to violently suppress opposing ideas.
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Offline SCarpelan

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Re: The Myth of "Alt-Left"
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2017, 09:04:57 pm »
the authoritarian left
Perhaps you'd like to define the term authoritarian left"? The term "authoritarian" is misused in this context quite often. Antifa people mostly tend to be anarchists and anti-authoritarians: unlike you seem to think this doesn't mean that one must be free speech absolutist or pacifist.

Don't get me wrong, authoritarian left is a thing. My peeve is just that authoritarianism has a specific meaning and people misuse it to take advantage of its negative connotations to give emotional weight to arguments. Ironically, this type of rhetorical tactic is typically used by authoritarians so it's borrowing from their playbook.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 09:08:24 pm by SCarpelan »

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: The Myth of "Alt-Left"
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2017, 09:33:07 pm »
My views on Antifa aside there are plenty of Labor and socialist types who wouldn't call themselves "libertarian" in a pink fit who also wouldn't give Antifa the time of day. These folks want a strong state, just one that prioritises useful stuff like infrastructure, health care, housing and education over gifts to billionaires and pointless wars.

Offline dpareja

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Re: The Myth of "Alt-Left"
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2017, 11:24:44 pm »
the authoritarian left
Perhaps you'd like to define the term authoritarian left"? The term "authoritarian" is misused in this context quite often. Antifa people mostly tend to be anarchists and anti-authoritarians: unlike you seem to think this doesn't mean that one must be free speech absolutist or pacifist.

Don't get me wrong, authoritarian left is a thing. My peeve is just that authoritarianism has a specific meaning and people misuse it to take advantage of its negative connotations to give emotional weight to arguments. Ironically, this type of rhetorical tactic is typically used by authoritarians so it's borrowing from their playbook.

When I say "authoritarian left" in contrast to "libertarian left," I mean people who are on the left who are generally not civil libertarians.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

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The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

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Be weird, cause normal is boring.

Offline Kanzenkankaku

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Re: The Myth of "Alt-Left"
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2017, 04:00:35 am »
Some of the pro-ANTIFA people I've encountered reading twitter don't strike me as particularly Anarchist. Not in the philosophical sense at least. In the "break shit" stereotype boogeyman sense they do a good job of geing loud on the internet and even occasionally irl and making it seem to the conservatives like imminent curtailment of people (read: their's, mainly, they aren't always good with granting the left the same treatment) free speech rights. When really it's quite simple to me how to make ANTIFA non-threatening.

Downtown where i live there was a free speech rally where anybody from left right or center was allowed to talk, and the police cordoned off the stage and part of the block to protect the viewers and speakers.

Rabblerousers of any stripe (even non-political) are far less likely to pull some dumb bullshit when there's a higher probability they'll get caught trying to do it.