Author Topic: Best Political Cartoons  (Read 1599581 times)

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Offline Askold

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #810 on: April 22, 2012, 02:57:08 pm »
The thing that gets me about nuclear is that the waste products it does produce can last too damn long. I just don’t feel it is responsible to push of responsibility for dealing with something onto generations so far removed that we aren’t even sure how to best communicate the importance of that responsibility.

While that's a good point, the other side of that is, to my understanding, the present inability of wind, solar, and hydroelectric power to handle the needs of the entire United States, much less the entire world. The technologies should be further developed, and there may come a day when it is feasible to use them to produce the majority of power, but right now they're not workable on the necessary scale while coal and nuclear are.

Wind power is only barely costeffective, but getting better slowly. Wave/tide power has improved (One of the most promising new types of wave-energy collectors was developed by a Finnish team! And we don't even get proper waves/tides in Finland.) but the main problem is that only certain places have tides powerful enough for the powerplants. Solar power also gives the best results near equator but is not so good closer to north and south pole.

Untill we make improvements in the green energy nuclear power is a good short term solution. (Altough the waste certainly is a long term commitment.)
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Offline N. De Plume

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #811 on: April 22, 2012, 03:26:58 pm »
Ultimately, no one energy source is going to work on its own. We need to work on a muti-pronged solution. Use what is best for a given location, supplemented with a few second-best choices to help mitigate an shortcomings of the primary tactic.

And I think we should emphasize that even for a single area, one can have multiple sources. For instance, a local hospital located near the county landfill in my former hometown recently set up a deal to use some of the gas produced by the bacteria in the landfill as a power source. This gas would normally have just been burned off to no effect. Now, this energy source isn’t even enough to power the hospital on its own. However, it does reduce the hospital’s reliance on traditional fossil fuel power provided by the city. Basically, if you can scale this sort of thing up, even with multiple green energy sources, you could probably get a pretty good deal going.


Untill we make improvements in the green energy nuclear power is a good short term solution. (Altough the waste certainly is a long term commitment.)

I would hesitate to think of anything with any long-term consequence as “short-term.” Even if the initial stage was intended as a stopgap. Your solution’s term is however long it takes you to stop dealing with it.
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Offline Cataclysm

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #812 on: April 22, 2012, 03:37:30 pm »
Four words: Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors
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Offline N. De Plume

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #813 on: April 22, 2012, 03:43:12 pm »
301 years is still a fucking long time. But it is also way, way, way shorter than the thousands upon thousands of the alternatives. And short enough that the “Warning Sign” problem shouldn’t be much of an issue, barring some kind of apocalyptic catastrophe. I think I could get behind that.
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #814 on: April 22, 2012, 04:53:09 pm »
Untill we make improvements in the green energy nuclear power is a good short term solution. (Altough the waste certainly is a long term commitment.)

Consider; with almost no government subsidies, with major white-anting from the dirty energy industry backed, in many places, by the state, and with little private investment- solar energy has halved in price every year for the last ten. It is already cheaper, on aggregate, than coal fired-power (and probably nuclear as well).

The answer is a properly funded solar-energy development program, and victory over the dirty energy/conservative movement. Within a decade, everything will be powered by solar energy- the choice is whether the US and Australia produces that, or whether Germany and South Korea will. It's looking like, because the German/Korean political system is less corrupt and more responsive, the US will voluntarily surrender a major competitive advantage.

Nuclear energy is a joke. The massive handouts to the industry, including those in the form of R and D, are wasted, because the industry won't exist out of submarines in two decades. The US is paying to make better horses-and-carts in 1910, because the cart industry owns a bunch of congressmen.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 04:56:17 pm by Lt. Fred »
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Offline Kit Walker

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #815 on: April 22, 2012, 05:08:25 pm »
It was my understanding that even as photovoltaic cells are getting better, it still requires a shit ton of them to generate sufficient power for current needs. Which creates a whole lot of extra concerns regarding maintenance, cleaning, space & other placement concerns, etc.
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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #816 on: April 22, 2012, 05:33:28 pm »
guys guys guys...I can solve our energy problem in one fell swoop.

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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #817 on: April 22, 2012, 07:03:03 pm »
guys guys guys...I can solve our energy problem in one fell swoop.

Ironbite-Fire....sweet sweet fire that cleanses the earth clean

Technically... that DOES solve every problem ever....
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Offline TenfoldMaquette

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #818 on: April 22, 2012, 07:04:33 pm »
guys guys guys...I can solve our energy problem in one fell swoop.

Ironbite-Fire....sweet sweet fire that cleanses the earth clean

Technically... that DOES solve every problem ever....

Gotta love the simple solutions. :)

Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #819 on: April 22, 2012, 07:11:06 pm »
It was my understanding that even as photovoltaic cells are getting better, it still requires a shit ton of them to generate sufficient power for current needs. Which creates a whole lot of extra concerns regarding maintenance, cleaning, space & other placement concerns, etc.

Yeah, my family actually was looking into getting solar cells for our house once... and then we learned it was really expensive to buy and set up. Solar energy is the best possible route, but first it has to be made cheaper, more plentiful, more efficient, and easier to make/use so that average people can install it themselves and actually get their money's worth. At the point when solar energy becomes a bargain compared to "dirty" energy (that actually sounds sexy even though it's not), they'll jump on the bandwagon real fast. Forcing them to use solar power would probably just leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

And we do need nuclear plants for medical isotopes and bombs stuff, so they're not all bad. Just sayin'.

In eastern WA there are a lot of wind turbines that generate energy. I don't know how efficient they are, but god damn are they impressive. And huge.
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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #820 on: April 22, 2012, 07:30:32 pm »

Offline TheL

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #821 on: April 22, 2012, 07:56:49 pm »
The thing that gets me about nuclear is that the waste products it does produce can last too damn long. I just don’t feel it is responsible to push of responsibility for dealing with something onto generations so far removed that we aren’t even sure how to best communicate the importance of that responsibility.

While that's a good point, the other side of that is, to my understanding, the present inability of wind, solar, and hydroelectric power to handle the needs of the entire United States, much less the entire world. The technologies should be further developed, and there may come a day when it is feasible to use them to produce the majority of power, but right now they're not workable on the necessary scale while coal and nuclear are.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean we can't replace some of the old power plants with sustainable energy sources, or that it's not worthwhile to cut down on coal use now.
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Offline MadCatTLX

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #822 on: April 22, 2012, 08:58:47 pm »

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All things considered I support nuclear, water, wind and solar power but only if the safety precautions (and a safe location) are well thought out.

The thing that gets me about nuclear is that the waste products it does produce can last too damn long. I just don’t feel it is responsible to push of responsibility for dealing with something onto generations so far removed that we aren’t even sure how to best communicate the importance of that responsibility.

I think the current solution is to use containers that have to be replaced every decade or so. that way people won't forget because there will always be containers reaching their "expiration date" and needing to be replaced. A good thing that comes from it is this creates jobs, though incredibly hazardous ones.
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Offline N. De Plume

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #823 on: April 22, 2012, 09:09:35 pm »

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All things considered I support nuclear, water, wind and solar power but only if the safety precautions (and a safe location) are well thought out.

The thing that gets me about nuclear is that the waste products it does produce can last too damn long. I just don’t feel it is responsible to push of responsibility for dealing with something onto generations so far removed that we aren’t even sure how to best communicate the importance of that responsibility.

I think the current solution is to use containers that have to be replaced every decade or so. that way people won't forget because there will always be containers reaching their "expiration date" and needing to be replaced. A good thing that comes from it is this creates jobs, though incredibly hazardous ones.

Definitely need some sort of continuous intervention in order to encourage preservation of the message in whatever language happens to be spoken at the time. But I wouldn’t count on that chain to never be broken by some force or another.
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Offline gyeonghwa

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Re: Best Political Cartoons
« Reply #824 on: April 23, 2012, 12:20:26 am »

Quote
All things considered I support nuclear, water, wind and solar power but only if the safety precautions (and a safe location) are well thought out.

The thing that gets me about nuclear is that the waste products it does produce can last too damn long. I just don’t feel it is responsible to push of responsibility for dealing with something onto generations so far removed that we aren’t even sure how to best communicate the importance of that responsibility.

I think the current solution is to use containers that have to be replaced every decade or so. that way people won't forget because there will always be containers reaching their "expiration date" and needing to be replaced. A good thing that comes from it is this creates jobs, though incredibly hazardous ones.


One plausible solution that I've heard is to dump the nuclear waste in the Mariana Trench, where the subduction zone would push the waste and a recycle it. Not sure how well that would work though.
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