Author Topic: "Question Evolution" hypocrisy about academic freedom and "true science"  (Read 4795 times)

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Offline the_ignored

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From the facebook page of Bob "Piltdown Superman" Sorensen, the "Question Evolution Project":

Quote
We attempt to help raise awareness that true science is not afraid to examine contrary evidence and allows alternative theories to the interpretation of the evidence (such as creation science). Specifically, evolutionists should not have the right to shout down, censor, censure or intimidate creationists / ID proponents.

Meanwhile, he has AIG, CMI, etc in his "Likes" section off to the side.  You know, the guys who have that statement of faith.
Quote
By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the Scriptural record. Of primary importance is the fact that evidence is always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information.


My correspondence with those people follows:

Quote
Reynold Hall

Well, since you're speaking about contradictions, I should note that the AIG and the CMI people have that little "Statement of faith" that all employees have to agree to as a precondition to working there. You know: "By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the Scriptural record. Of primary importance is the fact that evidence is always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information."

So, anything that goes against Genesis is automatically tossed.

Now, what was that about "true science" not being afraid of contrary evidence and looking at alternative theories again?

==============================
6:43pm
The Question Evolution Project

Nothing contradictory there. Those are Biblical ministries, and have the right to make their standards. Meanwhile, there is rampant discrimination, even persecution, of creationists in other scientific fields, which is disingenuous. But I'm sure that liars for Darwin like Eugenie Scott at the NCSE, or the BCSE persecution is fine with you, right?


==================================
8:10pm
Reynold Hall

Yes, there is. The ministries that you support do not care one whit for academic freedom. Yet you claim that "true science" is not afraid to look at the evidence, or to consider alternate theories. Your creationist friends by your own standard are not "true" scientists!

As for "persecution" of creationists? Care to back that accusation up? Would you also care to back up your statement about "liars for Darwin" like Scott?

=========================
8:15pm
The Question Evolution Project

Reynold, your argument has already been answered. CMI and AIG are Biblical ministries that give Creation scientists the ability to work their fields without punishment.

These statement of faiths are not contradictions. If they disallowed alternate theories, they would not publish feedback from varies folks with various credentials around the world.

So begone, fallacious one. If your intent is to harass us over misconstrued and subjective interpretations. ~Ashley

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8:25pm
Reynold Hall

It's one thing to give the "ability to work one's field without punishment" BUT it is an entirely different thing to refuse to accept anything that goes against the biblical view. Don't you see it? They will punish their members who go against their views. Exactly what you're complaining about with evolutionists.

And I'm NOT talking about their "feedback" where the creationists get the last word. Even "evolutionist" journals do that, but that doesn't stop you people from whinging about "persecution" (a charge that I"m still waiting for you to back up, by the way)!

I'm talking about the oath that their own employees have to take before they are allowed to work with them! In other words: The people who join those groups are not allowed to go against the bible.

I'm not trying to "harass" anyone. If by presenting contrary evidence means "harassment" to you people, then it's no wonder that you feel "persecuted" by evolutionists!

Offline Rabbit of Caerbannog

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One thing I've noticed about religious fundamentalists is (aside from the rank hypocrisy) that they have an annoying habit of projecting their own beliefs onto other people, assuming that everyone thinks in the same black-and-white terms they do. So if they believe in an unquestionable dogma, so must everyone else, including biologists. If they have the Bible, then other people must necessarily revere a book as holy writ such as The Origin of Species. If their beliefs are not subject to change, then neither are scientific theories, so it's okay to try to poke holes in Darwin's original works while ignoring subsequent work in the field of biology. And if they prevent people from expressing different points of view within their organizations because they fear scientific scrutiny, then "Darwinists" must do the same thing. They truly believe that without a god (and ignoring that Christians can and do understand evolution) people must fill the void with something else and treat it as a deity. It's frustrating to even talk to these people--I've had more fulfilling dialogues with a brick wall.

Offline Atheism Exposed

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Meanwhile, he has AIG, CMI, etc in his "Likes" section off to the side.  You know, the guys who have that statement of faith.
Quote
By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the Scriptural record. Of primary importance is the fact that evidence is always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information.

Atheists already have a monopoly on the science establishment and schools, now you think it's unfair that you can't force your factless bilge into christian ministries aswell?  There's just no end to your capriciousness, is there?
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Offline ironbite

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Please keep trying harder.  It gets me off.

Offline Dakota Bob

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Meanwhile, he has AIG, CMI, etc in his "Likes" section off to the side.  You know, the guys who have that statement of faith.
Quote
By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the Scriptural record. Of primary importance is the fact that evidence is always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information.

Atheists already have a monopoly on the science establishment and schools, now you think it's unfair that you can't force your factless bilge into christian ministries aswell?  There's just no end to your capriciousness, is there?

Well, to be fair, we're right and you're wrong. troll harder.

Offline rookie

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People should be questioning evolution. And every other scientific principle. It'll help us understand our world better. But what AiG is doing isn't questioning. They're throwing hissy fits.
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Offline Rabbit of Caerbannog

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Meanwhile, he has AIG, CMI, etc in his "Likes" section off to the side.  You know, the guys who have that statement of faith.
Quote
By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the Scriptural record. Of primary importance is the fact that evidence is always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information.

Atheists already have a monopoly on the science establishment and schools, now you think it's unfair that you can't force your factless bilge into christian ministries aswell?  There's just no end to your capriciousness, is there?
Oh the butthurt is strong with this one.

Offline Rabbit of Caerbannog

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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Atheism Exposed, you are aware that there are many Christian scientists, right?  Some of whom actually believe in evolution, some of those who actually believe that it was God that started evolution in the first place?

By the way, you don't get to call them non-Christians or fake Christians because of this.  Your own holy book lists the requirements for being a Christian, and they fit it.  Not to mention, deciding who is and isn't Christian is your deity's providence, not yours.
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Offline Random Dinosaur

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I know a couple of paleontologists who are also strong Christians. One is also a pastor and the other leads Bible studies in his spare time. Neither has a problem with evolution.
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Offline ThunderWulf

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People should be questioning evolution. And every other scientific principle. It'll help us understand our world better. But what AiG is doing isn't questioning. They're throwing hissy fits.

To quote the youtuber Edward Current:

"There is nothing wrong with asking questions. Asking questions can lead us to new information and experiences. However, the problem is when people make an assertion in the form of a question, knowing that they'll ignore any answer they don't like."
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Offline the_ignored

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People should be questioning evolution. And every other scientific principle. It'll help us understand our world better. But what AiG is doing isn't questioning. They're throwing hissy fits.

To quote the youtuber Edward Current:

"There is nothing wrong with asking questions. Asking questions can lead us to new information and experiences. However, the problem is when people make an assertion in the form of a question, knowing that they'll ignore any answer they don't like."
Or when the "questions" are based on misrepresentations of the thing being questioned, or when the questions have already been answered and the questioner is pretending that they haven't.  For an example of the latter, check out the Dover trial transcripts for Behe getting cross-examined about the immune system and the blood-clotting cascade.


Also:  More correspondence with those prats.

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The Question Evolution Project

Reynold,

It makes no sense for a Biblical ministry to accept those that don't believe in the Bible. Please go research what a Biblical ministry entails before you continue this argument further. Everything you're presented is arbitrary and nonsensical.

I didn't accuse you of harassing. I suggested you go do something else if your intent was to do so. Again, showing us you're more than willing to read more into what is actually being written. ~Ashley

=====================
Today
3:52am
The Question Evolution Project

" In other words: The people who join those groups are not allowed to go against the bible."

Those groups are Christian ministries set up for a Christian purpose. Are you REALLY saying they're hypocritical because they want people who agree with their mission and values? You're really reaching for an excuse. -CBB

====================
Today
4:41pm
Reynold Hall

I know that a "biblical ministry" is not supposed to accept those that don't accept the bible...I can accept that. Though they also pretend that SCIENCE supports their views. That oath of theirs shows that it does not, otherwise, no such oath would be necessary. Remember what it said on the "about" page for this little project here: True science is unafraid to look at all the facts...unlike xian ministries.

I'm just pointing out that since this "Question Evolution" project was started by one of those "biblical ministries" (CMI) in the first place...that they pretend to support free speech/academic freedom by trying to (falsely) cast doubt on science, that they are hypocrites because they don't allow anyone to question THEIR values.

Think: If the bible and all that baloney was really true...why would those oaths of theirs even be necessary in the first place?

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The Question Evolution Project

You're continuously making arbitrary assumptions. We don't have time for it. You're convinced we're hypocrites. Ok. Goodbye now.

========================================
5:10pm
The Question Evolution Project

Also, you are lying about CMI. If you're confused, they are not behind TQEP. So, we're done here. -CBB

=======================
5:29pm
Reynold Hall

Uh, I'M lying? Hello: http://creation.com/question-evolution Yeah, we are done. You have been exposed as being the liar by pretending that CMI had nothing to do with the Question Evolution project.

Am I to assume that this project, with the same name, the same questions, and linked to the CMI site has NO relation whatsoever to them?
Question evolution
creation.com
A grass-roots campaign to get people to question evolution with 15 unanswerable questions for evolutionists tracts, plus shirts, caps, mugs, badges and stickers.

=============================
5:34pm
The Question Evolution Project

lol ok. We're liars and hypocrites. Move on, Dearie.

=============================
5:36pm
Reynold Hall

Laugh if you want, "dearie". You people are. Even when the evidence is staring you in the face, as of the last post...you disregard it. Must be a gift of the holy spirit or something. Whatever. bye

==================
The Question Evolution Project

RIGHT, THIS IS NOT A CMI PROJECT. Their "Question Evolution!" campaign inspired it. Now, stop bothering us and defaming good people before I report you for harassment.

PS - If you want to fuss and cry about CMI's policies and alleged hypocrisy, TALK TO THEM.
=================
5:50pm
Reynold Hall

Bring it. You people are the ones defaming good people. I am just exercising my freedom of speech which you people pretend to advocate. I guess you people also don't like it when people question you, but it's perfectly OK for you people to lie about science and scientists all the time.


Edit:
My last correspondence with them, I suspect:
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The Question Evolution Project

You're the liar, and you've been reported. Come back when your frontal lobes develop, little boy, mmmkay?
==================
6:31pm
Reynold Hall

And just HOW am I "lying"?
I can't wait to hear how I'm the one "lying:
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 08:36:25 pm by the_ignored »

Offline Scotsgit

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Please keep trying harder.  It gets me off.

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What would they know about developed frontal lobes? With their inability to understand even basic psychology.
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