Author Topic: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington  (Read 64586 times)

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Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2085 on: February 16, 2018, 09:49:56 pm »
I can - and I do because of all our current populist has done. This election has convinced me of one thing - populism will always burn everything that came before it to ashes.

Sanders spoke of borders, he created an insurgent wing of the Democrats that routinely smears everyone not in their wing, and there was much the same "workers party" rhetoric.

Demagogues no matter their stripe are bad.

What you've seen are the right-wing manifestations of populism, largely because the left has been unwilling or unable to harness that same sentiment to the same degree.

As for demagoguery...

Quote
A political leader who seeks support by appealing to popular desires and prejudices rather than by using rational argument.

Are you really going to say Sanders didn't use rational argument? Yes, he appealed to popular desires--but he justified his calls for those policies with rational argumentation.

Plus, the term has the connotation of being dishonest, and if you think Sanders is dishonest, I don't think you're listening to the same person I am.

I would also say that he didn't create that wing; he energized it.

And if you think Sanders would have done any of the things I listed (with the caveat that, had he done so, it would only have been to replace them with something demonstrably superior--single-payer instead of the ACA, for instance), then you are, quite simply, lying to yourself. Why you are, I don't know, but that is all it is--self-deceit.

But here's the thing: like it or not, there is a populist wave coming--the first tides have already hit the shores. Decide for yourself to which ideology you would prefer to see it attach, but don't pretend that it will be turned back.

Also, don't pretend Trump is a populist. He is so only in rhetoric (and even then not always), and his policies and the people with whom he has surrounded himself are entirely rooted in the political establishment.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

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Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2086 on: February 17, 2018, 11:33:55 am »
This is what happens when your only metric for success is popularity.  Doesn't matter if you're a proven racist, barely literate, and rapidly succumbing to the ravages of old age; if you can appeal to lots of people, you're in.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2087 on: February 17, 2018, 04:01:28 pm »
This is what happens when your only metric for success is popularity.  Doesn't matter if you're a proven racist, barely literate, and rapidly succumbing to the ravages of old age; if you can appeal to lots of people, you're in.

And you don't even have to appeal to more people than your opponent because the electoral system is an outmoded piece of shit!
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2088 on: February 17, 2018, 06:36:57 pm »
'Murrica!
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2089 on: February 17, 2018, 06:46:24 pm »
'Murrica!

I saw it noted that there are 22 stable liberal democracies in the world (that is, continuously democratically governed, with civil liberties guaranteed, since 1950). In no particular order, these are Austria, Germany(/West Germany), Italy, France, Switzerland, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Iceland, the United Kingdom, the Republic of Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, Japan, Costa Rica, and the United States of America.

One interesting thing to note about this list is that only two use the US model: the US itself, and Costa Rica. All the others use a parliamentary confidence system of some sort.

At this point, with all the electoral and other political fuckery going on in the US, and the effective eradication of various civil liberties (4th Amendment anyone?), I'm not sure if the US belongs on that list any longer.

What I find particularly amusing about it is that half of the countries on that list are monarchies.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Askold

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2090 on: February 18, 2018, 10:44:02 am »
After the 13 Russians got the indictments and Mueller publicly stated that Russia did interfere with the elections AND had bots and trolls influencing politics in USA things are heating up.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/374427-trump-i-never-said-russia-didnt-meddle-in-election

Trump goes back to lying and gaslighting as is his way.

T_D is in panic mode, r/Conspiracy is having a minor revolt when it was revealed that many of their favourite sources were in fact Russian shills...

Next week is going to be interesting.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
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Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Id82

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2091 on: February 18, 2018, 07:30:31 pm »
Oh that just makes me smile. For someone to find out they've been trolled all along.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2092 on: February 19, 2018, 06:59:10 pm »
Democrats ran a focus group to find out what voters thought of them and the Republicans. Here's what they heard:

"Republicans have the wrong agenda. Democrats have no agenda."
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline ironbite

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2093 on: February 19, 2018, 08:30:28 pm »
I see you were part of that focus group.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2094 on: February 19, 2018, 10:21:38 pm »
I see you were part of that focus group.

You win elections by giving people something to vote for, not just something to vote against.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Askold

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2095 on: February 20, 2018, 12:28:14 am »
I see you were part of that focus group.

You win elections by giving people something to vote for, not just something to vote against.


Wasn't that like 90% of Trump's campaign? Being against Clinton, being against everything Obama stood for, being against everything Democrats and liberals stand for?
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2096 on: February 20, 2018, 12:55:41 am »
I see you were part of that focus group.

You win elections by giving people something to vote for, not just something to vote against.


Wasn't that like 90% of Trump's campaign? Being against Clinton, being against everything Obama stood for, being against everything Democrats and liberals stand for?

Build the wall? Withdraw from TPP? Renegotiate NAFTA? Get out of the wars (or take out their families, depending on the day)?

And...

http://mediaproject.wesleyan.edu/blog/2016-election-study-published/


Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Askold

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2097 on: February 20, 2018, 01:27:15 am »
Against "evil-rapist-Mexican-Jobstealers" , against NAFTA, against TPP.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2098 on: February 20, 2018, 02:20:33 am »
Against "evil-rapist-Mexican-Jobstealers" , against NAFTA, against TPP.

But he proposed policy solutions there (stupid ones, generally, but nonetheless). Most of what Clinton talked about was personal attacks on Trump.

And here's two more: raising the minimum wage (though he also said it should be eliminated), and raising taxes on the rich (though he also said those should be lowered).

Oh, and that pharmaceutical companies are ripping off and effectively killing Americans (which is true, but he changed his tune on that one after one meeting with pharma lobbyists... but that was after he'd won).

Trump--in his stupid, idiotic way--talked about issues and proposed policy solutions. Clinton didn't.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline niam2023

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #2099 on: February 20, 2018, 02:30:34 am »
Dpareja again showing that Sanders Supporters will absolutely never get over their hatred of Clinton - now for failing to win an election they in all likelihood believe Sanders could've carried.

Any data chart, any talking point is fair game for being used as a cudgel. My family and I were and are proud Clinton supporters. If that makes us corporate shills, then I will wear my corporatist badge with honor - and state in the future I hope to become a big enough money maker to be in your lobbying, corrupting your democrats with my EEEEEEEEVILLLLLLLLL MONEY!
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